Project: ThinkPad Multimedia-Home-Theatre-Center

[beeblebrox]

Folks,
I have a question on ThinkPad noise for my current private project: my ThinkPad Home Theatre Center

I have been looking around to buy/build a slick and silent Video/iTunes Center for the living room. Unfortunately the Pentium M desktop systems are VERY expensive. I checked with DFI and AOpen.

When I saw the picture of the Origami ThinkPads in one of the posts, it struck me... of course everything needed is included in any ThinkPad, and since there are always ThinkPads on eBay that are offered with a broken/yellow/defective screen, I decided to just build a dirt-cheap powerful ThinkPad HTPC.
Unmount the screen, put a nice black tape on the front and use a nice large black 19" TFT. Put in a large 4200rpm HDD and that's it.
Would be perfect, good looking and totally silent.

After I checked the requirements for the TV PC-Cards I saw that I would need at least a P3 with 900Mhz for watching video, but a P4 1.6Ghz is recommended for recording videos.
The whole system should be dead-silent for iTunes and DVD-watching, what it is on the T22/T23.

Now my problem and question:
====================
I know the T2x series, which would be perfect, but possibly too slow for recording. I tested encoding on a Centrino, which is very silent.
I could not find any T4x, R4x, R5x eBay notebook that was offered with a broken screen for a good price. (I guess that people still rather replace their screen for these newer systems)

The only systems available are now the mobile P4s.
However I read everywhere that the Mobile P4 is hot and produces a lot of constant fan noise. I have never used a P4 system (e.g. A31, T30...) so can not comment.
Recording heat would be ok. But watching DVD/TV and MP3 should be without fan noise.

Can anyone give me any hint what I have to expect in real life? Has maybe someone already built a similar system?
Another question is: how good is the monitor signal of the ThinkPads? Do I have to buy a docking for the DVI or is analog ok?

Thanks for help!

[JohnDrake]

Are you sure you don't just want to get one of the new stand alone DVD Recorders that are out there now....there are some going for under $200 new now. And your done, you just have to remember to swap out a DVD disk every now and then...

But...if you are serious...I assume you are aware of the open source PVR project, MythTV...

http://www.mythtv.org/

You would be better served using a cheap desktop, and picking devices supported by Linux....

[lfeagan]

Alternatively, there is GeeXboX:
http://www.geexbox.org/
Quick review of GeeXboX:
http://www.tuxme.com/node/173

I would definitely say going the linux route and putting together a small HTPC box would be the better choice. The Mini-ITX form factor will put you in the smallest box you would likely want to use. You can get a start on this path by going here: http://www.mini-itx.com/

Here's a particularly sweet little box:
http://www.tranquilpc.co.uk/mce_2005.htm

[beeblebrox]

Thank you all for the very good feedback.
I will need more time now to evaluate the options.

Unfortunately I have never worked with Linux, nor did I ever see a system around to play with.
As I see at Apples site, there will be no iTunes for Linux for the near future, but I have many hundreds of CDs transferred to iTunes, so that application would be running 95% of the time.
That is a problem with Linux.
Rest is DVD, which should be no problem with Linux after the Swedish guy Johanson war freed in court for programming a DVD player for Linux.

I really favor the "Tranquil-PC", but they are not producing yet, and shipping is announced for late Q1/2005. I only saw one price at an early distributor in Switzerland, they charge Sfr 1900,- (!!).
Hush technology is even way more expensive.

To summarize: I would certainly go with the Tranquil-PC for a lower price. I checked a few stylish barebones, but they all used Pentium/AMD technology and are noisy.

But even with a barebone or Tranquil I still would need a keyboard. That was my reasoning for simply using the base of a thinkpad, which has a perfect keyboard, DVD, disk and computer all integrated. I have currently a T23 running in that configuration, it is only too slow for TV recording.
Maybe the Linux encoders are way faster without all the Windows overhead. I will do some readings over the Xmas break.

But, coming back to my question: how noisy and hot is a mobile P4 Thinkpad? Anyone knows?

[monty cantsin]

As I see at Apples site, there will be no iTunes for Linux for the near future, but I have many hundreds of CDs transferred to iTunes, so that application would be running 95% of the time.
That is a problem with Linux.

Nope, obviously not since CodeWeaver's CrossOver Office 4.0:

"Press Releases
CodeWeaversTM Adds Support For Apple iTunes® In New CrossOver OfficeTM 4.0"
http://www.codeweavers.com/site/about/g ... d=20041116

http://crossover.codeweavers.com/piperm ... 00027.html

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/53410

[lfeagan]

And as for the hardware, check out this:
EPIA MII 12000 1.2GHz Motherboard $214.20
Travla C158 Mini-ITX Case 90W Black $135
TEAC DV28E Slimline DVD-Black $70.20
Slimline CD to Desktop IDE Adapter & Audio Cable $17.10
512MB DDR PC2100 DIMM $124.20
Total = $560.70.

Not bad, just add in a hard drive (3.5" Form Factor) of your choice and some sort of TV capture card and you are good to go. The linux thing that I posted was something that required very little knowledge to setup (bootable CD). In general the linux HTPC tools are extremely easy to use.

Best of luck.

[beeblebrox]

Excellent, thanks a lot.

Now, I will be busy for a weekend to set it all up.
I got the news, that there is something like Knoppix, that is a complete Linux on a CD, just copy it to hard disk, and I am set. Perfect!

[monty cantsin]

I got the news, that there is something like Knoppix, that is a complete Linux on a CD, just copy it to hard disk, and I am set. Perfect!

Yep, but not only Knoppix. Here's a large list with many more of such live CDs:

http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

You also may want to check out the new Ubuntu distribution...

http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8286
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8754
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8964&page=1
http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=1803391
http://linuxlog.de/item/ubuntuderneuest ... ktophimmel

...which is financed by the South African billionaire Mark Shuttleworth ("the first African in space"). They're giving away the CDs (a double pack: one installation disc, one live CD) for free and also ship to Germany, though it may take some time:

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/docu ... aq/shipit/

Screenshots:

http://osnews.com/img/8286/ubuntu1.png
http://osnews.com/img/8286/ubuntu2.png
http://osnews.com/img/8286/ubuntu3.png

Preliminary screenshots of the next release:

http://www.osnews.com/img/9097/ubuntu1.jpg
http://www.osnews.com/img/9097/ubuntu2.jpg

German Ubuntu fans meet here:

http://ubuntuusers.de/

[thinklad]

Are you planning to use the HTPC like a piece of stereo equipment?

I haven't tried the VGA out on my T30 but I have tried the S-video and it is not as good as the LCD. I have to qualify that by saying that the
S-video was not set as my primary display and for that reason, overlays had to be disabled. It would probably be better if it was primary with
overlays on because overlays enabled makes a huge difference on the LCD as far as video "tearing".

I know they aren't dead silent like my T30 but an xbox running "Xbox media center" works extremely well and would cost a fraction of the price.

[carbon_unit]

This may be what you are looking for:
http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html
A Knoppix distro with mythtv already installed.

[beeblebrox]

The T20 actually ended as an iTunes music server in the living room, sitting on top of a large black stereo system (which gradually loses its components... CD player, DVD player, all gone and replaced by the Thinkpad).
I need to run iTunes and WinDVD (or equivalent), because of tons of CDs I transferred to iTunes.

I checked the professional equipment in stores (JVC; Bose, Kenwood, etc.) and found their equipment either Extremely Expensive! and mediocre to use, or not having the features I like.
An LCD screens is much better to handle music collections and set up the surround systems. The iTunes Jukebox become a favorite for parties!

I was more than surprised about the good music quality of the T20 on its audio output, the SoundFusion chip that was built in is of quite high quality. 20 bit output and a good Codec. That's very suprising, because most motherboards have a dirt cheap junk on it, not the ThinkPad T2x.
For surround I use the Creative 5.1 PC-Card now, works perfect with WinDVD and iTunes. Including 4200rpm drives (2x80GB) and that's the perfect jukebox, and dead silent.

Now, I thought to unmount the screen and put a larger 17" or 19" to it as a primary iTunes display. For watching DVD I have the beamer.
However, I thought just to get another, faster system with a defective screen on ebay and remove the screen. So I thought about Mobile P4 systems.

The question would be, if I upgrade to a "Tranquil PC" or similar system, I get the same performance, but a T2x/R3x is available at ebay for $250, with everything included. The HTPCs cost 3-5 times as much, because they are part of home equipment.

[ablem]

Like it better than Tivo. No subscription fee and uses the same guide information that Tivo uses. Also handles music and photos. Easiest way to turn a Windows PC into a home theater core. Check it out at www.sage.tv.