R52 problems and questions

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michalex · #1 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:44 pm

Hi All,
New to the forum. My wife has an R52 1849 that decided to give her problems in her last year of school. Needless to say it is past warranty.
The problem started when the laptop would just shut off on its own. Then, it got to the point where it would only power up on AC power not battery. So we got a new battery and now, it powers up but battery light is amber, battery won't charge and LCD is very dim (you can see a shadow of the desktop). This happens regardless of battery vs no battery. Even the light on the LCD is amber which I believe should be white.
So our local repair shop has told us its the motherboard because these models dont have a power inverter. First off, any feedback on these problems would be great.
Secondly, if we need to abandon this laptop, looking for some suggestions. I can find a lot of refurbished R52's online, but of course these have no warranty from Lenovo so you take a risk with them.
I've thought about getting an R52 and swapping the hard drive out because there is a lot of software, settings etc that would need to be reconfigured.
If I do get a new one, I'd get another Thinkpad, probably an R61. Would i be able to swap the HD out of the R52 into the R61 or am I looking at transferring data to a flash drive and moving over?
Thanks for any advice and sorry about the long post, but I've been fighting with this for 2 weeks now, and my wife is losing precious time at school. Thanks!

mgo · #2 Post by **mgo** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:31 pm

michalex wrote:Hi All,
New to the forum. My wife has an R52 1849 that decided to give her problems in her last year of school. Needless to say it is past warranty.but I've been fighting with this for 2 weeks now, and my wife is losing precious time at school. Thanks!

I am a R52 owner but do not use it very much anymore. Since it was bought new in the box just two years ago it has very few hours on it and is showing no problems.

1: you urgently need to get your wife's work and personal data copied over to another drive, such as a USB external drive! This backup will be used to protect you from disaster should the R52 fail completely and it would also be used to transfer data to another computer should you replace the R52.

2: Is the R52 over heating? Does the fan run? (you should hear it running from time to time) If not you may have a fan failure, or even just a clogged up cooling system. Shutting down suddenly is usually a sign of overheating.

3: Normally, merely plugging in a old drive into another machine will not work well due to hardware mismatches, even with the same model. It will not work well at all to try and plug in the old drive into a completely different machine. Often times the operating system will not cope well with the differences. At best, you would end up with driver comflicts and lots of orphan files.

4: I have no experience with the model you are thinking of buying. Do a search on this forum for user comments about that unit.

Hope this helps a little....

michalex · #3 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:57 pm

Thanks for the response mgo!

At first I thought it may have been overheating, but the fan does seem to come on. The symptoms of the dim LCD and battery not charging makes me think it isnt an overheating problem, but I could be wrong. If the cooling system were clogged up, what can be done if anything to rule that out? Are there any logs in the BIOS that will indicate whether overheating is occuring?

The repair shop I took it too told me that as long as I got another R52, I could simply switch out the hard drive. I questioned that but he seemed pretty adamant that it could be done and told me he'd done it before. I know there's the good ole HAL to worry about so any HW difference could be problematic.

I'm not so much worried about the model I'm getting. I just mentioned the R61 since I can get this at a pretty good price brand new so I know there will be a warranty with it. I know Thinkpads are good, I've used them exclusively for work (T models however). I was surprised at having this problem with the R52 so early in its life (only about 3 years old). My main concern was swapping the HD out of the R52 into another machine and continuing to use it but it seems that may not even be viable were I to get another R52.

Is there anything else that these repair guys could be missing with respect to the R52 and the symptoms I'm having? It just seems to me that they're guessing and not really diagnosing.

vanaya · #4 Post by **vanaya** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:01 pm

Welcome to the forum! I also believe the the first place to look at would be the fan and CPU temperature. You could download NHC and monitor the cpu and hdd temps to rule-out overheating problems. R40 will not charge batteries with a 56w only 72 watt adapter (my desk is where I charge both my 600e and R40, accidentally mixed them up). So the next would be to check the adapter. These will be the easiest to problem solve your issues.

Edit: after reading your follow-up post. I think you have multiple problems. Since your shutdowns would be higher on the list to solve I would worry about charging second.

michalex · #5 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:18 pm

Thanks vanaya,
I failed to mention that after replacing the battery, my shutdown problems seem to have gone away and now I am having the problems with dim LCD (barely visible) and battery not charging. So currently it does seem that LCD is not getting ample power for lighting and battery not getting enough to charge (at least that's what it looks like to me). Not sure if overheating would result in these symptoms, and sorry for the confusion but wanted to mention everything that has happened to date to provide the complete picture. Thanks!

mgo · #6 Post by **mgo** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:25 pm

michalex wrote:Thanks for the response mgo!

At first I thought it may have been overheating, but the fan does seem to come on. The symptoms of the dim LCD and battery not charging makes me think it isnt an overheating problem, but I could be wrong.
The repair shop I took it too told me that as long as I got another R52, I could simply switch out the hard drive. I questioned that but he seemed pretty adamant that it could be done and told me he'd done it before. I know there's the good ole HAL to worry about so any HW difference could be problematic.

.

1: On the overheating idea....if the fan runs at a high speed all the time, then the cooling vents may be clogged with dust which may lead to spontaneous thermal shutdown. If the fan does not run a whole lot you may not have a clogged cooling system.

2: I only swapped hard drives on one machine (a R50p) using the drive from a R51. It worked fairly well, but the XP operating system did a lot of work installing different drivers to match the hardware after boot up. (actually a testament to the high quality of the operating system) Your shop might be correct, since they just might have more "real world" experience with that sort of thing than I do.

3: considering the other symptoms, you might indeed have a failing mainboard or other hardware problem. Your posts tell me that you are an above average computer user/troubleshooter so you seem to be on track in your assessments so far.

4: I need to re-state the obvious: Make sure your personal data and files are safely backup up. Hardware is expendable, data is not.

Then you can simply shop around for your next machine. Just make sure your current programs would run on Vista should you get something with that operating system on board. More than likely they will.

XP is also available under most circumstances thru June, as I understand.

michalex · #7 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:35 pm

I agree on the XP/Vista issue. If I were to purchase a new Thinkpad, I think I'll spend the extra $50 or so to get WinXP Pro pre-installed. I havent worked personally with Vista but from what I've heard not sure if I want to go down that road. I am also having my wife check with her software vendors to see if Vista is supported.

I hear you on the backup issue. She has most of her files backed up already, but that is the next step is to move as much data to my 4GB flash drive so that if push comes to shove, we have the data ready to go.

I just wanted to get some expert opinions here before I make any sudden moves. I'm already down $100 ($50 for repair shop and $50 for new battery) and don't want to make the mistake of spending more than I should.

I know it will be hit or miss whether I get a good refurbished R52 but my wife is pretty adamant about going new because of the whole warranty issue (needless to say she is gun shy about problems occuring again in the future). I'm just trying to minimize cash bleeding and maximize ease of transition to a new machine (if needed)

If it were my personal laptop, I'd spend the $200 for the ebay listing of an R52 where there is no HD but it boots up into the BIOS, and just start swapping parts until I had a functioning Thinkpad, but unfortunately there's more on the line here for my wife, and the peace of mind of knowing that things are covered should something happen again.

Thanks for all the great responses so far!

mgo · #8 Post by **mgo** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:50 pm

michalex wrote:I agree on the XP/Vista issue. If I were to purchase a new Thinkpad, I think I'll spend the extra $50 or so to get WinXP Pro pre-installed. I havent worked personally with Vista but from what I've heard not sure if I want to go down that road. I am also having my wife check with her software vendors to see if Vista is supported.

Well, don't let the "Vista scare stories" put you off. The operating system works quite well, especially with service pack 1 and it it easy to adapt to it. Like XP, it requires a few simple tweaks to get it to run at max speed. Nothing risky in that.

I have Vista running a R50p, R51, R52 and three T60s with zero problems and adequate to very good, performance. In many cases it's quicker than XP. But the operating system is your choice, and if your spouse is most comfortable with XP, then that's the thing to do.

Let us all know how you did, eh?

michalex · #9 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:58 pm

hey mgo,
Quick question for you. On your R52, is your Thinklight LED amber or white? One of the things the repair shop guy said was that he thought there were power problems because the LED was amber. Now that I am doing some searches, I found most of the R series did have amber lights. So is it possible I have a bad LCD inverter? (along with some other reason why the battery is not charging?)

virge · #10 Post by **virge** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:18 pm

I've never had an R52, but I have had two thee R51 machines and all three had amber Thinklights.

mgo · #11 Post by **mgo** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:21 pm

michalex wrote:hey mgo,
Quick question for you. On your R52, is your Thinklight LED amber or white? One of the things the repair shop guy said was that he thought there were power problems because the LED was amber. Now that I am doing some searches, I found most of the R series did have amber lights. So is it possible I have a bad LCD inverter? (along with some other reason why the battery is not charging?)

The Thinklight has no relation to battery status. The amber color was believed to be more desirable in dim conditions as opposed to the white color in later models. (same theory for reddish flashlights when reading maps in aircraft cockpit at night so as to not affect night vision)

My R52 is in storage right now, so I do not have access to it. My hardware manual for the unit's battery indicator states:

"Indicator
Meaning
7
Battery status
Green: The battery is in use and has enough power. The ac adapter has charged the battery completely. Blinking green: The battery is being charged, but still has enough power to operate. (At regular intervals, the indicator light turns off briefly.) Orange: The battery is being charged, but the battery power is still low. Blinking orange: The battery needs to be charged. When the indicator starts blinking orange, the computer beeps three times."

That statement applies to the battery indicator on the front panel, of course, not the Thinklight.

Hope this helps.

michalex · #12 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:35 pm

So my question then is, what are the normal causes of a dim LCD display? I know the #1 cause would be bad LCD inverter. Can low power supply also be a cause? Would that also manifest itself in battery not charging?

mgo · #13 Post by **mgo** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:57 pm

michalex wrote:So my question then is, what are the normal causes of a dim LCD display? I know the #1 cause would be bad LCD inverter. Can low power supply also be a cause? Would that also manifest itself in battery not charging?

I don't have sufficient experience to answer your question. I have done business with this technician, and he ought be have some answers for you. james@famteam.com He is a Thinkpads forum member as well.

sjthinkpader · #14 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Mon May 12, 2008 4:19 pm

Have you tried a different AC adapter?

michalex · #15 Post by **michalex** » Mon May 12, 2008 4:22 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:Have you tried a different AC adapter?

yes I have and multiple batteries too

goofyGAguy · #16 Post by **goofyGAguy** » Mon May 12, 2008 6:08 pm

michalex wrote:So my question then is, what are the normal causes of a dim LCD display?

A CCFL that is nearing the end of its life. Had you been seeing any red tint on boot-up recently?

michalex · #17 Post by **michalex** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:43 am

goofyGAguy wrote:
michalex wrote:So my question then is, what are the normal causes of a dim LCD display?
A CCFL that is nearing the end of its life. Had you been seeing any red tint on boot-up recently?

Can't say that I have. It's my wife's laptop so I dont use it that often but the times I've seen it recently, didnt notice any red tint. What is a CCFL and would that also result in battery not charging?

sjthinkpader · #18 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:52 am

There are a number of switches on the motherboard called MOSFETs and they have voltage sensing controllers. One of these MOSFET or voltage controller may be going out.

CCFL means cold cathode fluorescence lamp. The common one we use around the house is HCF or hot cathode fluorescence type.

michalex · #19 Post by **michalex** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:56 am

Another question. Can the memory from an R52 be transferred to an R61e 765084U? I can get a new R61e with only 512MB for $399 so wondering if I can transfer the 1GB of RAM from the R52 to the R61e. Thanks!

sjthinkpader · #20 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue May 13, 2008 10:12 am

Technically, the R52 uses PC2-4200 and R61e uses PC2-5300. But your unit may have PC2-5300 already. So you have to take a look at them physically.

R60e doesn't have a dock connector so R61 and R61i may be better in the long run.

michalex · #21 Post by **michalex** » Tue May 13, 2008 10:30 am

sjthinkpader wrote:Technically, the R52 uses PC2-4200 and R61e uses PC2-5300. But your unit may have PC2-5300 already. So you have to take a look at them physically.

Thanks sj, can you tell me what's the easiest way to determine what type of memory is in the R52 right now? and if it is PC2-4200 and there's 2 DIMM's, are you saying I can't put those 2 DIMM's in the R61e?

sjthinkpader · #22 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue May 13, 2008 11:42 am

You can't tell without looking at it or some utility to read the SPD on these two SO-DIMMs.

They may work in a R61e but at slower speed, which is undesirable. I haven't tried it myself anyway.

michalex · #23 Post by **michalex** » Tue May 13, 2008 12:15 pm

Thanks for the responses everyone. I ended up buying the R61e today and will transfer the data from the R52 over. I'll probably also buy a 1GB stick for the R61e. Maybe someone can say whether I can add the 1GB to the existing 512 and have 1.5 or will I need to replace? also I'm guessing the battery for the R52 is different from the R61e, so I'm probably not going to be able to use the new battery I bought as a secondary one for the R61e
Either way, I think this was my cheapest option and someday, I'll plan on trying to get the R52 fixed as a secondary laptop. Just don't have the time and resources to do that right now. Thanks again!

sjthinkpader · #24 Post by **sjthinkpader** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:02 pm

You are right, the R6x uses a different battery design than the R5x. PC2-5300 RAM are very cheap today.

michalex · #25 Post by **michalex** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:04 pm

sjthinkpader wrote:You are right, the R6x uses a different battery design than the R5x. PC2-5300 RAM are very cheap today.

Thanks, also do you know whether I can have a 512 and 1GB in the 2 slots or do they both have to be the same?

#26 Post by **Harryc** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:09 pm

No problem mixing 512 and 1GB sticks. There might be a slight (as in unnoticeable) improvement in performance using matched sticks because the RAM will be running in synchronous dual channel mode.

michalex · #27 Post by **michalex** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:17 pm

Harryc wrote:No problem mixing 512 and 1GB sticks. There might be a slight (as in unnoticeable) improvement in performance using matched sticks because the RAM will be running in synchronous dual channel mode.

which would perform better?
1 1GB stick or 1 512 and 1 1GB?

#28 Post by **Harryc** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:18 pm

1 512 and 1 1GB

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