SOS - I've got a brick. [Halfway resolved now.]

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hellosailor · #1 Post by **hellosailor** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:38 pm

I had a T61p running Vista Ultimate. Something was wrong, Windows Update kept failing erratically, and I foolishly decided to back it up and rebrick the system.

Pardon me if this is long-winded, I don't want to leave out anything that might be trivial but critical.

Well...I tried using the Thinkvantage blue button options to refresh the OS after I used the blue button options to make an additional copy of my data files off to an external USB hard drive.

Rebooting after that, I got an error message "BOOTMGR is missing, press ctrl-alt-del to restart".

Now, if I had a retail Vista installation there's a repair routine that will rebuild a missing BOOTMRG file, but since Lenovo has a secret partition--that's not able to work.

So I tried using the recovery discs that yes, I DID make in Vista. Silly me, the computer asked for OS discs and I thought that was what it wanted, so I couldn't understand why they wren't being accepted.

Placed a service call and replacement Vista recovery discs are being shipped to me, by mule train. Then in a moment of full caffienation, I tried using my discs again and said "NO" when I was asked if I had the OS discs, and I got the (Duh!) next screen asking if I had the RECOVERY discs. Who would have thought, the recovery process would begin by asking for discs no one should have, and that only by answering "NO" would I be prompted for the discs I'm supposed to be using.

I used the recovery discs (3) and the computer booted into Vista. Hooray! And I let it go back and forth downloading both Windows Update and (Lenovo) System Update files for hours (slow DSL) making a total of about a ten hour recovery.

Only to find that the files the blue button options had copied out to the hard drive were incomplete (not all there) and CompletePCBackup won't recognize the backup that "it" made before the system was reimaged. So my backup files are there--just unreachable.

That's when I decided to try the blue button again today, thinking maybe the recovery options there would let me get those files back.

SURPRISE! F11 produces "BOOTMGR is missing" AGAIN! And this is after using the internal drive diagnostics to confirm the hard drive in good. Using AVG8 to confirm there are no viruses. And a clean reimage from the recovery discs.

Lenovo support has no idea why the file is still missing, but apparently the Thinkvantage Rescue & Recovery software isn't present either. Somehow, the rebuild process didn't install it--although I'm sure I saw version 4.x installing, and there were no interruptions, no problems.

So Lenovo suggested I manually dl and install the R&R software and they say that after I reinstall it, the BOOTMGR IS MISSING error should go away.

I don't know...my limited understanding is that won't happen, if BOOTMGR is missing, it isn't there, and installing software isn't going to rebuild it.

Anyone have a better understanding of how the Thinkpads are "special" and what I might be able to do to really get a stable system back again? Or if I would be better off (in terms of future recovery options) by simply doing a "retail" install of Vista, and that way also having Vista's new repair options available to me?

Its an either-or choice, the Vista repair options (which seem pretty good, including a CompletePCBackup restore button, and a rebuild of BOOTMGR if needed) from MS, or the Lenovo blue button options--which really haven't impressed me with this failure.

Time isn't crucial--but it counts, because with a 3-day holiday coming up, I can see this dragging into two full weeks of working around things with the backup computer and my latest files held hostage on that hard drive. Not fun!

[UPDATE]
Well, it turns out the last Lenovo rep was quite a bit smarter than the first few. He suggested that reinstalling the Thinkvantage R&R program would solve the BOOTMGR IS MISSING error, and indeed it did! Apparently installing the TvR&R program from within Vista "reaches out" and modifies BOOTMGR. So now, I have my F11 functions back, and the TvR&R program can run from inside or outside Vista.

Leaving me with one major task: Convincing CompletePCBackup that it really should recognize Friday's backup files, and kindly do a restore from the files in them. Apparently this program uses the VHD format for the files it makes, one suggestion from Mark Minasi's web site is to install VHD and simply fo the work from there.[/i]

Quantique · #2 Post by **Quantique** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:07 am

Did you try another restore since your post, and did the bug come back?

Because this is what happened to me...The bug seems to reappear when you restore, wether you do it using DVD's you created or using the recovery partition on the HDD

hellosailor · #3 Post by **hellosailor** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:35 am

Quantique, the particular bogus problem ("BOOTMGR is missing" message) was resolved rebricking the computer.

But even though I've been fairly careful about the rebuild, the system has been about as stable as a house of straw. No oddball apps, no malware...but there's definitely still something wrong here. I ran SFC to check system files, and got a logfile of messages that aren't terribly helpful, like "restored purble place" which is a kiddy GAME I had removed from the system.

Very disappointing to see an NT system that is this fragile.

Quantique · #4 Post by **Quantique** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:47 am

i'm sorry, maybe it's because i'm not a native english speaker, or i'm just techno-dumb, but i don't understand what "rebricking" means??

hellosailor · #5 Post by **hellosailor** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:14 am

In US technospeak, a "rebricking" a hard drive means putting the original factory image back on it. Regardless of whether that is a brick (i.e. a dumb stone with no data) or the original factory image, which is usually an equally useful (or useless) image with an OS and utilities but nothing that the user has installed or configured.

I'd guess the term originated because "personal" computer hard drives, at 5-1/4" wide, FULL height, were similar in size and heft to bricks.

Quantique · #6 Post by **Quantique** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:32 am

hellosailor wrote:In US technospeak, a "rebricking" a hard drive means putting the original factory image back on it.

Aren't the recovery CDs supposed to do that altogether with reinstalling the system?

And btw how did you "restore" the original factory image, i mean the hidden partition?

hellosailor · #7 Post by **hellosailor** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:35 am

Product Recovery discs usually restore the entire drive to the image that was on it when it left the factory, starting with repartitioning it if need be. Some of them give you more options, like rstoring just the OS or individual programs, others just rebrick the entire drive.

Quantique · #8 Post by **Quantique** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:51 pm

Thank you. Then I guess I have to ask for those at Lenovo call center...

#9 Post by **carbon_unit** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:12 pm

In the US technospeak I have always seen "bricking" meant that you just turned your technology into a brick. In other words , you killed it. "rebricking" would mean you killed it, revived it and killed it again. I have been hanging out in tech forums for 10 years and I have never seen "rebrickiing" used so as to mean restoring a drive.....until now.

#10 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:04 am

Agreeing with carbon_unit, I had my doubts about that as well, but I haven't been long enough in this country to argue it.

I also have never heard of 'rebricking', not even from a brick layer!

hellosailor · #11 Post by **hellosailor** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:11 pm

RealBlack-
Well, let's see. DEC, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Gateway, Dell and IBM (pre-Lenovo) support all used and use the term "rebrick" in the way I'm using it. That's ignoring the folks I've known personally who were "in the business" in one way or another.

I'd suspect that is called "widely used term in the industry".

Maybe now that drives are becoming so small (yeah, sure, 8GB on a postage stamp?! With no motors or platters?! Come on, I know how big my first $2500 10MEG hard drive was, and it was on sale at half price!) the term is falling out of use.

Oh you kids.<VBG>

#12 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:31 pm

Well now, I've never had a PC from those brands you mentioned, I always built my own (and still do).
And I have worked for close to 35 years on mainframe computers, where I also never heard that term.
I only know laptops from IBM, so excuse my ignorance for not having come across that word 'rebrick.
But, one is never too old to learn something new!

#13 Post by **carbon_unit** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:18 pm

Same here. You learn something new every day.

K0LO · #14 Post by **K0LO** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:21 pm

The other odd techno term that got me was a "planar". While it seems that everyone else in the industry calls it a "motherboard", IBM (and now Lenovo) calls it a "planar". Does any other PC company use that terminology?

SOS - I've got a brick. [Halfway resolved now.]

SOS - I've got a brick. [Halfway resolved now.]

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