International Shipping Discussions

[BillMorrow]

don't turn down a fair offer because the customer is in italy..
just get payment by bank wire and then ship it fedex in the original box..

the shipping will cost about $150 more or less..
but note that in have not shipped a thinkpad to italy for a few years..

be prepared to prove yourself to a buyer before they bank wire $$..

[hularious]

don't turn down a fair offer because the customer is in italy..
just get payment by bank wire and then ship it fedex in the original box..

the shipping will cost about $150 more or less..
but note that in have not shipped a thinkpad to italy for a few years..

be prepared to prove yourself to a buyer before they bank wire $$..

How do I ship in the original box if there are other items included in the package? What about insurance, guaranteed delivery, etc. How can I be sure the person I am sending to is also not one of those internet scammers?

Just a few questions which makes me think dealing with someone in the US will just be easier than someone internationally. Just some thoughts on my end. If you have any other advice, please email me or feel free to post in this forum.

[alfio]

How do I ship in the original box if there are other items included in the package? What about insurance, guaranteed delivery, etc. How can I be sure the person I am sending to is also not one of those internet scammers?

Just a few questions which makes me think dealing with someone in the US will just be easier than someone internationally. Just some thoughts on my end. If you have any other advice, please email me or feel free to post in this forum.

there's nothing that guarantee that internet hackers don't also reside within the US -- in fact, we know they do. we like to limit our sales to US-only folk because we think the system offers certain guarantees and safeguards but there are also plenty of people who get just as ripped off from the US as they do abroad. it's like ebay - what does ebay guarantee? nothing. well, nothing more than the illusion of some sort of protection (and whatever actual protection your credit card actually offers - this, of course, is another story altogether).

the crux of this issue is, as bill morrow seems to be pointing out, securing payment. once the payment is made there's little doubt that you are dealing with a legitimate buyer. what's a bit trickier, however, is the shipping insurance. some countries -- i.e. argentina -- are notorious for 'disappearing' shipments and difficult customs (if you shipped that laptop here it would require a 100% tax on a price arbitrarily set by customs) and hence insurance is more difficult/expensive to purchase. but if it can be shipped with insurance, shipping to italy seems to be a proposition no riskier than shipping to little italy, new york.

alfio

[AvalonXIII]

Just want to say this, but shipping outside the US requires dealing with customs, and that can create major headaches. I never want to ship outside the US, not unless I can be sure that the customs process is easy enough. Even then sometimes you'll have to fill out paperworks.

[Kyocera]

the crux of this issue is, as bill morrow seems to be pointing out, securing payment. once the payment is made there's little doubt that you are dealing with a legitimate buyer. what's a bit trickier, however, is the shipping insurance. some countries -- i.e. argentina -- are notorious for 'disappearing' shipments and difficult customs (if you shipped that laptop here it would require a 100% tax on a price arbitrarily set by customs) and hence insurance is more difficult/expensive to purchase. but if it can be shipped with insurance, shipping to italy seems to be a proposition no riskier than shipping to little italy, new york.

The crux of the issue is this is hularious' thinkpad. If he wants to sell it in a 30 mile radius of his house it's his perogative
some of us are not making part or all of our living off selling thinkpads, aren't versed in international shipping laws, customs laws, insurance, etc etc and don't really have the time to mess with it.

Please let hularious sell HIS thinkpad where he wants to and at whatever price he sees fit. If he wants to sell in the US like I and some others do what is the big deal, for some of us who are not big time dealers making a living off selling thinkpads filling out anything other than the recipents address on the box would be a pain in the a&(*&ss.

[ajkula66]

AvalonXIII wrote:

Just want to say this, but shipping outside the US requires dealing with customs, and that can create major headaches. I never want to ship outside the US, not unless I can be sure that the customs process is easy enough. Even then sometimes you'll have to fill out paperworks.

All you have to fill out is one form, takes less than two minutes, I do it many a times every week. You as a seller have no responsibility once the item leaves the post office.

If OP changes his mind (I encourage him to, but as Kyocera said, it's his ThinkPad), best way of shipping is USPS Global Express Mail, which is trackable all the way and way cheaper than FedEx/UPS. Also, if someone wires the money to your bank account he's unlikely to be a scammer...

My $0.02 only, and I probably ship more machines from USA to Europe than anyone else on this forum...

[hularious]

All you have to fill out is one form, takes less than two minutes, I do it many a times every week. You as a seller have no responsibility once the item leaves the post office.

If OP changes his mind (I encourage him to, but as Kyocera said, it's his ThinkPad), best way of shipping is USPS Global Express Mail, which is trackable all the way and way cheaper than FedEx/UPS. Also, if someone wires the money to your bank account he's unlikely to be a scammer...

My $0.02 only, and I probably ship more machines from USA to Europe than anyone else on this forum...

Do you have any experience shipping to Italy? Any advice or suggestions with a possible transaction? I'm definitely not versed w/ international shipping/customs laws, so yes, shipping to US would just be allbeit easier to deal with. Worth $50 to save the hassle? most definitely...if Italy vs. US were the options.

Anyhow, I would just be afraid of the whole infamous powerbook scam/revenge issue. I'm quite aware there are scammers everywhere so my guard is up in selling/shipping of the laptop.

FYI. the Laptop is still available and open to offers/negotiation. As the seller, I have the right to sell the laptop to whom I feel most comfortable with, not necessarily who offers me the most money.

[ajkula66]

hularious wrote:

As the seller, I have the right to sell the laptop to whom I feel most comfortable with, not necessarily who offers me the most money.

I apologize if you've misunderstood my post, I've clearly stated that I agreed with Kyocera that it was your right to sell or not to sell to whoever you choose to...

If you ever choose to proceed with this or any other international sale in the future, feel free to PM me and I'll walk you through it, like I have done with many other forum members in the past, it's a piece of cake.

Once and again, the best of luck with the sale.

[hularious]

I apologize if you've misunderstood my post, I've clearly stated that I agreed with Kyocera that it was your right to sell or not to sell to whoever you choose to...

If you ever choose to proceed with this or any other international sale in the future, feel free to PM me and I'll walk you through it, like I have done with many other forum members in the past, it's a piece of cake.

Oh no, sorry for MY ambiguity...I know you were ok with whatever I chose, I just wrote that statement as a general disclaimer to those who are interested in the laptop so they know I too get a choice in which transaction route I'd like to pick.

Anyhow, thanks for your willingness to help. I'll definitely PM you if need be.

[alfio]

Please let hularious sell HIS thinkpad where he wants to and at whatever price he sees fit. If he wants to sell in the US like I and some others do what is the big deal, for some of us who are not big time dealers making a living off selling thinkpads filling out anything other than the recipents address on the box would be a pain in the a&(*&ss.

hi kyocera,

i respond to your comment because of your direct quote (and the underlining!) of my post. i assure you it was never my intention to tell hularious (or anyone else for that matter) what to do with HIS laptop (as if we needed to clarify that point by using caps).

rather than encouraging him to sell internationally, i was, on the contrary, pointing out the relatively false sense of security with which US-only sellers make what amount to entirely arbitrary decisions in terms of their sales. we can obviously speculate as to the many many reasons for US-only sales somewhere else if need be but that wasn't my intent here. again, in case it's not clear, i was simply saying that selling to US-only isn't as foolproof as some of us would like. it goes without saying that hularious and whomever else feels like selling something can do so at their own discretion.

all interested parties (and there seem to be many on this thread) should rest assured, i have zero interest over hularious' laptop (or his behavior). i was merely participating in a discussion on international sales (we are still allowed to discuss things on the forum, aren't we?).

salud,

alfio

[Kyocera]

I split this off. Discuss this here please.

we are still allowed to discuss things on the forum, aren't we?).

Hmmm, very sarcastic and wrong as pertaining to the Marketplace. The marketplace is for selling and buying, not taking a perfectly reasonable for sale post and turning it into a discussion of who knows more about international shipping when clearly the OP posted he wants to sell inside the U.S. for whatever reason. I've explained many times over that long discussions in a sellers post dilute the post and keep it bumped up above others which is not fair.

[alfio]

Hmmm, very sarcastic and wrong as pertaining to the Marketplace. The marketplace is for selling and buying, not taking a perfectly reasonable for sale post and turning it into a discussion of who knows more about international shipping

a) i did not divert the conversation (thanks a lot Bill Morrow! you break the rules [shame, shame] and i get a tongue lashing)

b) i didn't know sarcasm wasn't allowed either! i've got lots of learning to do. more seriously, yes, i'm very sarcastic. my apologies if i've offended you. look kyocera, i've got no problems with you but, really, don't call me out when you're the one precisely doing what shouldn't be done. if the rules of the marketplace are soooo tight, a simple note stating as much should have sufficed (perhaps even in response to the original Bill Morrow post) and not your (arguably very silly) underlined hyperdramatic response. on your way to stating the obvious, your response, rather than fix the problem (i.e. inform about a misuse of the forum), in fact, furthered the rule-breaking (in bold font and underlined to boot!).

clearly the OP posted he wants to sell inside the U.S. for whatever reason. I've explained many times over that long discussions in a sellers post dilute the post and keep it bumped up above others which is not fair.

c) see 'b' above and 'd' below on the issue of 'dilution'

d) the OP was, in fact, quite obviously responsible for opening the door on this tangent. ahem:

If you have any other advice, please email me or feel free to post in this forum.

if the OP asks for advice, why can't we oblige him? maybe it's not Bill's fault afterall (phew, you're off the hook Bill!)...


having said all of that, since kyocera took the initial steps in re-launching this topic, can we discuss the (real) matter at hand?

on the subject of international shipments, my experience has been that most international destinations (obviously recognizing the important caveat of insurance - see my original post above) are largely as (in)secure as shipping within the states and to canada. again, we can speculate as to the multiplicity of reasons people deploy in order to only ship within the states (and canada), and we can talk about those, but i would argue that above all this reasoning is fundamentally underscored by the assumption that shipping within the US is somehow more secure, something that we should all think about regardless of whether we sell/ship one or one thousand items during the year.

salud,

alfio

[Kyocera]

When a thread gets post after post it pushes others down the list. I try to help keep the marketplace FAIR for all. And this happens a lot when someone does not like the way things are set up. The BUMP rules are in place and I will enforce them. This forum is strictly monitored and I think that is part of it's appeal.


If someone feels inclined to write a sticky on the ins and outs of international shipping, including all it encompasses worldwide, customs, paperwork, fees, how the different vendors handle it, etc, etc, then it could be a jumping off point for these long and drawn out discussions every time someone refuses to ship OCONUS. Now that would actually be something useful to post, instead of what this and many other threads have been relegated to, usually the mod forum.

[BillMorrow]

i had NO IDEA my little bit of advice would generate so much heat..

my experience shippign new thinkpads world wide pretty much ceased a few years ago..
though i do still ship the occasional item internationally..

overall, shipping a used thinkpad is as easy as anything..
just fill out the fedex (i prefer fedex of the post office (foreign PO, not USPS) shipping label and THATS IT unless the value is over $2500..
insure the parcel for full value..

italy is a little less certain than most of the rest of europe but things usually get through..
(the only two times a shipment was lost was a fedex shipment of memory to italy and a hard drive to some remote place in AUS via post)

i started all this by saying:

don't turn down a fair offer because the customer is in italy..

there was no order to sell or not sell to anyone, just a small suggestion..

just get payment by bank wire and then ship it fedex in the original box..

payment by bank wire means the seller is free to ship and thats the end of his responsibility..

fedex takes it from there and if the original carton is availab le then fine, iof not a slightly larger box and plastic popcorn will do the trick..
and adding stuff to the box is easy unless the "stuff" is radioactive, talcum powder or some other "hot button" item..

the buyer is the one sticking his neck out because neither he or I know for sure who the seller really is..
so all risk is the buyers..
that said, since 9/11 and the so called "Patriot Act" (what a misnomer THAT is) it is no piece of cake to open a bank acocunt in the USA..
several pieces of i.d. and a TAX i.d. # or a SSI number are REQUIRED..!
so bank wires are about as safe for both sides as anything..


ajkula66 is right, listen to him.. shipping out of the USA is really easy..

this looks to be another case of an innocent comment i made causing a whole lot of trouble..

i think its time for me to shut up and stop causing trouble..

this thread is locked and should remain so unless someone can convince the mod who locked it to unlock it..