Lenovo no longer offering 4:3 size LCD?

[dispher]

I’ve been hearing some bad news for a while now...

Lenovo is no longer offering 4:3 size LCD on their ThinkPad offerings. Of course there was a warning about this change when Lenovo announced their T61 series in May 2007. It was all "widescreen" but after some time (near the end of the year), you could actually order a standard sized 14.1" ThinkPad with configurations up to a maxed out T61p.

Why did Lenovo underestimate the users out there who don't want a widescreen LCD in a notebook? I use widescreens on my home desktop/workstation & I’d imagine it "OK" on a multimedia notebook that is focusing on providing an enhanced experience for movies / games & other multimedia applications. ThinkPads were never (by nature) Multimedia Machines. They didn’t provide the best game experience on a notebook nor did they promise to change the way you watch movies or listen to music. This is easily understood by simply looking at a ThinkPad. No frills & no thrills BUT...

Security / Reliability / Performance / Battery Life / Better Support for Multi OS configuration & the list goes on & on... is what this machine is targeted at.

This is PROVEN by users like you & me & it’s a well known thing by decision makers in the IT industry.

If some users think that a widescreen would increase productivity (spreadsheets, etc...) there will be some who think it is more size & bulk that is not needed. Why is Lenovo discontinuing the 14.1" 4:3 screens without thinking about that percentage of users who actually upgrade their ThinkPad not to get a widescreen but for something else (like needing more power after they already maxed out there current offering)?

Been using ThinkPads since 2001 ... it's either a 12.1" or a 14.1" for me... as a customer... I don’t need any widescreen on a portable workstation.... so what to do now?

I hope Lenovo re-think it's drastic decision & be loyal to the users who are loyal to them (and IBM before them)....

Thanks for reading through.

Mousa

[Puppy]

No, everyone wants to watch movies on notebooks

[csioucs]

One up, I too want the 4:3. I'd hate to go widescreen. I need higher resolution, and I am not willing to go on a 1440x990.

And I do not want to go to 15'4 wsxga+, it's just too heavy.

4:3, 14'1 (even 12'1) SXGA+ forever.

We should gather signatures...

[jdhurst]

I purchased at T61p some months ago (in 2008) just to ensure a 4:3 14-inch screen. I wish Vista would work (it does not), but I got the XP recovery disks, so I willl wait for another month or two, and if help is not forthcoming from Microsoft to fix known issues, then XP forever it is. ... JDH

[crazyeddie1]

I purchased at T61p some months ago (in 2008) just to ensure a 4:3 14-inch screen. I wish Vista would work (it does not), but I got the XP recovery disks, so I willl wait for another month or two, and if help is not forthcoming from Microsoft to fix known issues, then XP forever it is. ... JDH

Last time I used xp was in 2001 on a desktop pc, me and my siblings had awfully painful time with its errors, freezes and blue screens. A story I still recall we used to start our pc and it would freeze had we not wait 10 minutes before opening the internet window. We switched to mac but for now I am temporarily using xp again, happy to report xp has grown up and is totally changed system but little too late as mac os has already spoiled me.

Have not used vista but read only negative comments.

[tfflivemb2]

Last time I used xp was in 2001 on a desktop pc, me and my siblings had awfully painful time with its errors, freezes and blue screens. A story I still recall we used to start our pc and it would freeze had we not wait 10 minutes before opening the internet window. We switched to mac but for now I am temporarily using xp again, happy to report xp has grown up and is totally changed system but little too late as mac os has already spoiled me.

Have not used vista but read only negative comments.

Not to continue on a Software/OS tangent, but Vista is a lot like XP when it first came out. It had its problems, and they have worked through them, and now XP is an OUTSTANDING OS (IMHO). Vista is working much better now that I have figured out what needed to be fixed.

[crazyeddie1]

Last time I used xp was in 2001 on a desktop pc, me and my siblings had awfully painful time with its errors, freezes and blue screens. A story I still recall we used to start our pc and it would freeze had we not wait 10 minutes before opening the internet window. We switched to mac but for now I am temporarily using xp again, happy to report xp has grown up and is totally changed system but little too late as mac os has already spoiled me.

Have not used vista but read only negative comments.

Not to continue on a Software/OS tangent, but Vista is a lot like XP when it first came out. It had its problems, and they have worked through them, and now XP is an OUTSTANDING OS (IMHO). Vista is working much better now that I have figured out what needed to be fixed.

Windows xp is a good os but it is missing many features:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,14511 ... ticle.html

I wish xp had expose and vitual worspaces, they look something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcOZc3rv ... re=related

Both are good oses, you use what you love and prefer.

[jdhurst]

<snip>
Windows xp is a good os but it is missing many features:
<snip>

That article tells the tale. I do not need the vast majority of what that article talks about. So now Vista throws away what I need to give me what I do not need. Bah! Humbug.

[gator]

JDH, you do know that win XP support is extended till 2014 right?

[jdhurst]

JDH, you do know that win XP support is extended till 2014 right?

Yes - thanks - I do know. However, it would be nice for Vista to do what I need as I need to help clients with it. Oh well. ... JD

[cb474]

Just to get back on track. I totally agree that it's a mistake to completely eliminate the 4:3 screen dimension. 14.1", 4:3, is also my preferred laptop.

The widescreen just adds bulk and eliminates vertical height, which is more important to me. Most of what I do on my laptop involves working with text, on the web and writing. For me, I want to see more lines of text. I would argue that this actually reflects how most people use laptops, but people have gotten it into their heads that widescreen is "better," because it's perceived as cooler (I blame Apple for this). Of course, there are uses for which widescreen is better (mainly watching movies), but I think this is not the main way most people use laptops most of the time.

Anyway, it's just ridiculous to have no choice. Isn't capitalism supposed to give us choices? Instead, Lenovo is mindlessly following a fad.

I have a T60, but am considering picking up a T61 off eBay, just so I can have the last, most up to date, 4:3 ThinkPad and see how long it lasts. After that, I can only hope that 4:3 comes back.

[pxa270]

According to reports, widescreen panels are cheaper to manufacture than 4:3, and 16:9 is cheaper still than the current 16:10, so most displays are going migrate to even wider/less tall screens in the coming years.

I don't know why widescreen would be cheapers, but if it's true, the transition to widescreen is perfectly sensible. Because you'd then need to convice consumers that 4:3 is so superior than widescreen that they'd be willing to pay extra for it. Which I don't really see happeing.

I think there is some merit to the argument than widescreen is more natural for human eyes, and that historically 4:3 only became standard because widescreen CRTs used to be very difficult/expensive to make.

[RaysMD]

I have what looks like the last T61p to be delivered next week. It's been on order for past month or so.

I agree. The 4:3 form factor is superior to the widescreens.

[anthean]

While preferring standard screens, I have come to accept that they will no longer be available.

Clearly, we know the width is the enemy of reading text--just think how narrow a newspaper column is. Or how few books are wider than they are tall.

And text appears to be going the way of the dinosaur. Consider that CNN no longer wants text questions for presidential candidates--instead, they want a video of the question.

[lophiomys]

I also would want a video of all the program code, I have to deal
with and of course - say Carla Bruni - reading the newspaper of
my choice on video chaque matin au petite dejeuner - pronto.


I'll never give up!
Voting and paying only for classic 4:3 (133dpi, Flexview)

[cb474]

I think there is some merit to the argument than widescreen is more natural for human eyes, and that historically 4:3 only became standard because widescreen CRTs used to be very difficult/expensive to make.

Remember that old movies were shot in 4:3. Widescreen, I read in a different forum, was introduced by the movie industry in reaction to the advent of television. People were going to the movies less, because of television. So the movie industry wanted to do something to make itself different and "better." It had nothing to do with what's natural for human eyes.

I think now something essentially the same is happening with computers. Apple introduced the widesreen notebook to be cool and different, not because it was better. Subsequently everyone has followed the fad.

I understand that 16:10 and 16:9 lcds may be cheaper. But I don't think this really explains the near total and rapid dominance of widescreen notebooks. People pay more for all sorts of features on laptops, faster hard drives, discrete GPUs, better contructed notebooks (like ThinkPads), etc. To me the widescreen phenomenon is just an example of how fads drive industry and how competition results in less choices (because everyone follows the fads) not more.

[fafaforza]

[quote="crazyeddie1"]
I wish xp had expose and vitual worspaces, they look something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcOZc3rv ... re=related[/quote]

Windows does have virtual workspaces. It's called VirtuaWin. Great package.

There are also many plugins written for it. So for my liking, I can middle click on a window's title menu and set it 'always on top' even if the app itself doesn't support it (as some Windows apps do).

I can also click anywhere on a window and drag it using the Alt key, a feature from Gnome and KDE that I've also found useful.

[cb474]

Yeah, when people talk about how they like widescreen notebook lcds, because of how useful that extra inch on the side is for having some little other application open or whatever, I just think, haven't you seen multiple workspace environments? I find that so much more useful.

I think there are several applications in windows that give multiple workspaces. Even ones that emulate the cube effect from Compiz in Linux.

[jdhurst]

I can see the pros and cons of both, but the widescreen laptops I see are bigger and heavier than what I want, and do not fit in my trusty leather bag that I have had for nearly a decade. ... JDH

[GomJabbar]

I think there are several applications in windows that give multiple workspaces. Even ones that emulate the cube effect from Compiz in Linux.

I agree that multiple workspaces is much preferred to going widescreen. I just hate it that the manufacturers all have the same feature set and mind set. Nowadays the only real difference between manufacturers is build quality.

I am really miffed that virtually all the displays are glossy widescreen these days.

When my T42 needs replacing, I just don't think I will have the enthusiasm that I had when I bought my first T42. Sad really.

[pxa270]

I understand that 16:10 and 16:9 lcds may be cheaper. But I don't think this really explains the near total and rapid dominance of widescreen notebooks. People pay more for all sorts of features on laptops, faster hard drives, discrete GPUs, better contructed notebooks (like ThinkPads), etc.

The situation is not remotely comparable. With hard disks, GPUs, etc, the parts that are more expensive to produce are demonstrably better, faster, bigger, etc, which is how you convice people to pay more for them. If 4:3 are more expensive to produce, you still need to convince enough buyers that they're actually better than widescreen displays so they're willing to pay a price premium for it. You can easily see why they're produced less and less, which in turns makes the price disparity even bigger.

[Puppy]

If 4:3 are more expensive to produce

I've never seen a reasonable argument why 4:3 display should be more expensive to produce than 16:9. Less pixels -> higher price ? Low demand ? That's nonsense because people would buy them if still offered. Entertainment industry dictation ? Well, we will push those stupid widescreen displays everywhere -> people would buy more DVDs and BRs ? Sounds too silly so it might be the idea behind

[j-dawg]

Actually, I'm not so sure many people would buy 4:3 machines if they were offered. Widescreen displays are touted as a feature these days. Whether or not they're actually cheaper dollar for dollar to manufacture, there's much more demand for them among consumers, making it more economical for panel manufacturers to devote their capacity to making widescreen panels instead of 4:3 panels. It's a trend generated by the consumer market, but Lenovo has to get its panels from the same manufacturers as everyone else.

Personally, I don't mind widescreen that much, especially if the vertical resolution is high enough, but I can't see any big advantage to it.

[Puppy]

It's a trend generated by the consumer market, but Lenovo has to get its panels from the same manufacturers as everyone else.

No, I'm not convinced that it is generated by consumers at all. It is dictated by manufacturers, no other options. Panasonic still produces mostly 4:3 notebook models and they sell well Many professional LCD monitors are still 4:3.

[Moskito]

@Puppy
Widescreen displays in general aren't cheaper in production.
However, the surface of a widescreen display is about eight percent smaller than the surface of standard screen display with the same diagonal size.

That's why widescreen displays are said to be cheaper, because you have a smaller display surface when using the same screen diagonal. That makes quite a difference for 14.1" notebooks, since there the diagonal for wide screen and standard screen models is the same. The surface 15.4" widen screen and 15" standard screen displays is more or less equal (because of the larger diagonal for wide screen displays).
Though the display surface of a 14" wide screen notebook is significantly smaller than the one of a 14" standard screen notebook, the total surface of both notebooks is more or less equal.


Widescreen makes sense in some special cases, for example you can use a full size keyboard in notebooks smaller than 13". But in general, you lose display size, pixels and the notebooks don't get smaller, they just gain a very large display bezel on the top and the bottom.


Btw. There were quite a few topsellers in the (now withdrawn) 4:3 notebooks series. So don't tell me people don't like 4:3 anymore. Widescreen being better for the eys is a myth, since the eye's focus is a circle, as is any other lense's. Widescreen has become popular for movies, because then you can have several people in the image frame without having some boring background on the top and on the bottom.



Well, Lenovo won't change the withdrawal of standard screen models, if they don't get some feedback asking for 4:3 models. So, if you prefer standard screen, then I ask you to give Lenovo some feedback on this. You could write an email to Lenovo, write your oppinion in approriate places in the Lenovo blogs or simply tell your Lenovo representative.

Regards, Moskito

[Puppy]

Sony Vaio G2 is also 4:3

[j-dawg]

It's a trend generated by the consumer market, but Lenovo has to get its panels from the same manufacturers as everyone else.

No, I'm not convinced that it is generated by consumers at all. It is dictated by manufacturers, no other options. Panasonic still produces mostly 4:3 notebook models and they sell well Many professional LCD monitors are still 4:3.

It's generated by consumers in the sense that most consumers have been "tricked" into thinking a widescreen LCD was somehow better. Now that the consumer market is headed in that direction, the supply will follow the demand, and it will be harder for Lenovo and Panasonic to offer 4:3 panels at reasonable prices.

[anthean]

But in general, you lose display size, pixels and the notebooks don't get smaller, they just gain a very large display bezel on the top and the bottom.

Ain't it the truth !

Widescreen being better for the eys is a myth, since the eye's focus is a circle, as is any other lense's.

Agree. While human eye sight is designed to glance horizontally rather than vertically, since after all we live on the surface of the planet, and most food, most predators, prey, etc are on that surface, our area of vision at any moment is approximately 4:3

[cb474]

No, I'm not convinced that it is generated by consumers at all. It is dictated by manufacturers, no other options. Panasonic still produces mostly 4:3 notebook models and they sell well Many professional LCD monitors are still 4:3.

It's generated by consumers in the sense that most consumers have been "tricked" into thinking a widescreen LCD was somehow better. Now that the consumer market is headed in that direction, the supply will follow the demand, and it will be harder for Lenovo and Panasonic to offer 4:3 panels at reasonable prices.

Well, I think both consumer demand and manufacturer interests operate in a feedback loop and reinforce each other and it's not really possible to attribute an ultimate cause.

However:

1) For that reason no trend is inevitable and can always change, so it's not always wise for manufacturers to just follow trends.

2) I think the importance of consumer demand is vastly overstated in our culture. Most people are pretty mindless about their preferences and let them be dicated to them by the presiding cultural context. Manufacturers have a huge part in this. In fact, in many ways manufacturers of even the most material objects are really more in the business of manufacturing desires (for what they sell) than the other way around.

3) And yet manufacturers still themselves mindlessly follow trends, which I think is interesting, because it contradicts the popular myth that capitalism gives us choices.

R.I.P. 4:3

[denisky]

I love thinkpad. I love it because it has unique characters which other brands don't.

As a thinkpad user, I've been proud of my laptop because of its traditional, old-fashioned 4:3 screen ratio. So classic. And it is a really really bad news to know that Lenovo is no longer offering 4:3 Thinkpad. But I have to thank to God because I had an opportunity to get the 4:3 one (my R51e).

Umm...
Is there something that we can do to make Lenovo offering 4:3 again?

Is there any Lenovo person here in this forum reading this thread? If so, then please listen to us, your loyal customers.