Contemplating 2nd laptop, or screen alone, with BLURAY 720p!

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Contemplating 2nd laptop, or screen alone, with BLURAY 720p!

Wait for a Lenovo Thinkpad
6
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That Acer 6920 series looks good, go for it if you like the screen
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Get only a screen! I'd recommend "x" number if inches, and "x" for a manufacturer for maximum quality!
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Total votes: 8

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Crunch
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Contemplating 2nd laptop, or screen alone, with BLURAY 720p!

#1 Post by Crunch » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:44 pm

So I am ready for a widescreen laptop that has NATIVE Bluray specs. Browsing through CNET revealed a laptop that has JUST that. In fact, they bill it as a multimedia powerhouse. But it's not a Thinkpad. :cry: :cry:

It's an Acer! :roll: They recently bought Gateway, if I'm not mistaken, or merged with them, or whatever, and they now have two models that are 18.4" WUXGA, but not 1920x1200, and instead 1920x1080, which is NATIVE 720p Bluray! A review of both models has revealed that the screen is supposedly top-notch. And I think I've come to the end of what else I can max my T60p out to.

So what am I to do?? Would I be cheating on my beloved Thinkpad getting a SECOND laptop, but I'd OF COURSE keep my T60p powerhouse, so in no way would this be a replacement!! Is there anything in the way of a 17" (or higher) WUXGA model with a decent screen on the horizon from Lenovo??

How long will it be until a successor to the T61p is introduced?? I also would not be against a Macbook Pro. I saw one with a 17" WS in a computer mega store recently, and I must say that I liked the screen. The OS, along with pretty much every other component is really irrelevant, as my T60p will continue to be my main machine for work and play. It's ALL about the quality of the screen!

Maybe I should just but that, a screen?? I sold my Advanced mini-dock, as I had no use for it except maybe the DVI output, but that was not enough of a reason to keep it. I got a stunning $182 for it because of the strong Euro. :D

What do you guys suggest? Wait for a new Lenovo Thinkpad? Go with the Acer? It's the 8920-6671, or the lower specs-one 8920-6048 series. Macbook Pro? And if a screen, which one?? What size do you recommend, and what manufacturer?? Again, the *quality* of the screen is MOST important! The T9500 that's in the Acer is great and everything, but my T7600 is more than enough to even run 1080p Bluray's, albeit no other apps should be running, or it'll get choppy. But a 720p Bluray, no problem!

Suggestions are extremely welcome!! :) Thanks guys!!
Last edited by Crunch on Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
15-inch Core 2 Duo ThinkPad T60p | Ivy-Bridge (Late-2012) Mac mini w/ quad Core i7-3615QM 2.3GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM, 240GB+180GB Intel 520 Series SATA III SSD's, 5x3TB Drobo 5D

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#2 Post by Troels » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:31 pm

Hi Crunch!

Contrary to what it seems like, i'm not sure what you're exactly looking for. I mean, isn't the 6920 series not only 16"?

In that case, the screen is - from Samsung - and it is near trash when it comes to CR:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Acer- ... 767.0.html

Sure, the colors may be good, but you'll need to keep it into balance with the contrast to get the perception of a good image. 190:1 is not, and i just don't get why Samsung are lying so much about their official specs, unless this is a custom Acer (=price cut) screen model.
The 8920 series has another LCD, though, of a whole other calibre:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Acer- ... 065.0.html - or a least it seems from the measurements.
About 725:1.

They're both WS and i don't think they should leave one's desk or sit at your lap. The 17" WS i've seen are actually very wide. Most fit the space for a numpad too, which isn't a bad thing, but it makes a 15" 4:3 look small and very handy.

If it was me, i'd try to convince myself if i really needed another PC/oversized laptop because of the LCD and because i could watch blueray. It's much money to spend on a laptop which will pale in comparison to a proper graphics desktop LCD with a normal size external BR drive.
A good LCD + a BR drive should be much cheaper too - but how much will you be watching while on the go?
Laptops are dangeously tempting, but they get outdated, and since nothing is standardized (like ATX), you'd allways end up with something old and expensive very fast.

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#3 Post by Crunch » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:58 pm

Troels wrote:Hi Crunch!

Contrary to what it seems like, i'm not sure what you're exactly looking for. I mean, isn't the 6920 series not only 16"?

In that case, the screen is - from Samsung - and it is near trash when it comes to CR:
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Acer- ... 767.0.html
(...)
Hi Troels,

Yea, you're absolutely right. I just looked through CNET again, and it's not the 6920, but rather the 8920. CNET's review was kind of fun to read through, so here's the link to the review, which got a solid 8.0, or Excellent.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/acer-as ... prod.txt.1

There's the 8920-6671 for $2,500, and the 8920-6048, which, at $1300, is almost HALF price, and I can swap the T5550 that's in it with the T9300 that I have lying around here. The rest (RAM, HDD, etc.) I can do myself, too. The screen, however, is the same at 18.4" WS WUXGA, and native 1920x1080. It even has multimedia controls on the keyboard. lol...

I also agree with your notion about 15" 4:3 ratio being just right for travel, and like I said, this would be only in ADDITION to my T60p! Not a replacement! I'll never give up my Super IPS haha...

Do you still think the screen is trash on the 8920 series?? That's all you have to say to make it worthless to me. However, they made those two laptops for a crazy multi-media experience, and I wouldn't travel with it. I'll always travel with my Thinkpad.

You were very specific as to the screen in your post. I am curious to find out what you think of these two models! Believe me, I would have NEVER sought out an Acer lol...It's only because I check certain sites, such as CNET, Engadget, EnMobile, EnHD, TBGR on a daily basis, and that's how I stumbled on it.

Awaiting your thoughts with bated breath! 8)

Thanks again!
15-inch Core 2 Duo ThinkPad T60p | Ivy-Bridge (Late-2012) Mac mini w/ quad Core i7-3615QM 2.3GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM, 240GB+180GB Intel 520 Series SATA III SSD's, 5x3TB Drobo 5D

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#4 Post by erik » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:03 pm

the thinkpad R series has an optional blu-ray drive.
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#5 Post by basketb » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:18 am

Why don't you buy a PS3 and an 1080p HDTV?

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#6 Post by Crunch » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:33 am

Thanks guys! :)

erik, well, the T series does, too. I don't need the actual drive, though. What I need is...ok, what I want is, a widescreen larger-than-15" (17", and above), screen if I'm going to buy a 2nd laptop for mostly multimedia-viewing. Does the R series have that?? And also, from a graphics expert and Thinkpad enthusiast that you are, what do YOU think when you hear Acer?? CNET is fairly impartial, and they used to be brutal on the Acer's, but these two that I linked, they seemingly loved them, including their quality. Hmmm... :?:

basketb: That's a good idea! lol...However, and I should have mentioned that in my first post, I have an HDTV at home, but I'm on a, at this point, VERY extended trip overseas, so I won't buy a TV here. Ok, so now that you know that, what do you think? R series, Acer, Macbook Pro, screen only???

Oh, and erik, do you still have that 22" WS Thinkvision or whatever it's called?? Either way, what did you like and dislike about it?

Thanks again, guys!! :)

Anybody else?
15-inch Core 2 Duo ThinkPad T60p | Ivy-Bridge (Late-2012) Mac mini w/ quad Core i7-3615QM 2.3GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM, 240GB+180GB Intel 520 Series SATA III SSD's, 5x3TB Drobo 5D

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#7 Post by Troels » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:37 am

A belated reply on my part - i tend to forget where i post :oops:

If one is $2,500 and another is $1300 i would still be careful about concluding that the LCDs are identical quality.
It is possible as a company to order any kind of quality and performance you want, as long as the quantity is large enough. What the LCD manufacturer lists on ther home pages are nearly always the best available, but as you saw with the 16", it's a far cry from the 600:1 advertised by Samsung:
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... mly_id=611

So it may be the case that Acer is using a higher-performance screen on the expensive model, while using a much lower contrast on the cheaper one. So if it was me, try to find the expensive and cheaper model in a store and compare them.

If it's the LCDs as advertised on Samsung's site, they're good LCDs, but i fear that banding will be even more apparent with that kind of chromaticity of advertised 60-92%, since it's still 6 bit.
So it's something you should check out in real-life too. The 18.4" isn't readyly available over here, so i can't check it, but i hope someday it will be available :)

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#8 Post by Crunch » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:13 pm

Hi Troels,

Thanks for the food for thoght! :) I happened to find myself at that store again yesterday, and they actually had that mega-monster of an Acer there. It's a no-go. It's ugly, no trackpoint, and I hate the pad. and I really only need a *screen*, not another laptop, so I looked at their screens.

I found a great LG screen, that made everything look pale in comparison! Right next to it, I saw a Samsung screen about the same size. NOW I understand why everyone here prefers LG LCD's on their Thinkpads, vs. Samsung's. Wow! What a difference. Almost IPS' ish, one could argue, as it a pretty good wide viewing angle, the only one out of a whole wall of screens! Apple screens included.

The glossy screens are horrible IMO. So I'll probably buy the 24" (I think it was) screen, with native Bluray specs. Something like 3000:1. I forget what that particular spec is called and what knowledge I can attain from it?? I'm a laymen when it comes to screens. I don't know what things like chromacity, and 6-bit means, for example.

Thanks again for the education! 8)
15-inch Core 2 Duo ThinkPad T60p | Ivy-Bridge (Late-2012) Mac mini w/ quad Core i7-3615QM 2.3GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM, 240GB+180GB Intel 520 Series SATA III SSD's, 5x3TB Drobo 5D

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Link to PIC

#9 Post by Troels » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:17 pm

Just found this image... i would really call it misleading to sell it as a movie entertainment notebook, that 16.0" Acer:

http://www.notebookjournal.de/storage/s ... dd7289f915

Judging from the colors of the desk, i think it's a decent camera. But that LCD is just nothing but really horrible. Also, it doesn't look like it shows a wide range of colors at all, as suggested by the 60% chromaticity.
Oh, and let's not forget the splendid backlight leakage at the bottom, which really only Samsung can do. It's just not alright with a notebook meant for viewing movies in darkness.

Hehe, if you looked at desktop monitors from LG, some of them probably were IPS, especially their larger LCDs.
That's also another thing which is hard to judge - is the image neutral to what it ought to display?
With speakers, people generally think that louder music sounds better than softer music - this is a trick that is always used at "auditions" or tests where potential buyers attend.
The same with TVs/monitors - turn the contrast and brightness all the way up, and it's sure to be noticed first.

The 3000:1 spec is called contrast ratio. It is the ratio of luminance at full brightness with white pixels and black pixels.
If you see a 40000:1 ratio, either someones pulling your leg, or it is dynamic contrast, which is a little useless in practice. It's the ratio of luminance at full brightness with white pixels and black pixels at lowest brightness setting.

Chromaticity is a mathematical model describing how colors are perceived, and the purity of it. It relies on the fact that all colors can be generated by three primary colors: red, green, blue. Furthermore we perceive colors as a luminance (brightness) and a chrominance. Black and white has the same chrominance, but different amount of luminance. Think of chrominance for e.g. red as if it was red paint dissolved in water. The more red paint you dissolve into the water, the more red it will seem, regardless of the amount of ambient light.
The model describes these chromacities in a horse-shoe shaped chart. You can measure the chromaticity by measuring the emission of R G and B from any source which is afterwards weighted by a function called the color-matching function.
What you get from this "transformation" is the color primaries of what you wanted to measure, which can be plotted in the horseshoe shaped chart. When connecting the three data points for R, G, B it will form a triangle.
When something has a color gammut or chromaticity of 60% or 92%, it is with respect to a NTSC color space, which is just three other color primaries, defined by the NTSC standard that spans another triangle with another area. Usually, this standard is used due to the fact that the three points are far apart from each other, so that very vidid colors are defined. This is a standard from the broadcasting industry.
A 60% color gamut or chromaticity means that the area spanned by the color primaries for a particular LCD for example, equals 60% the area of the NTSC triangle.

The higher you get, the more vivid colors the LCD can show. But as it is digital, you can only tell the LCD to display a specific color range in certain steps. What this means is that if we use ten steps to display all the red levels/gamuts possible with a 40% NTSC gamut LCD, the difference between each step will be less than if we had to do the same experiment on a 92% NTSC gamut LCD for example. What this means is that you will see coarse steps between each color levels/gamuts. That doesn't look good.
Instead, we can increase the amount of steps taken to display all levels of red.
For a 6 bit lcd, which is typical with notebook lcds, the color gamut is typically around 45%. To go from red=off to red=fully on, there is merely 64 steps (2^6).
If you had a 60% or 72% LCD with 6 bit steps, that would be truely bad. That's why manufacturers use 8 bit (256 values) and 10 bit (1024 values) for desktop monitors.
This also explains why larger color gamut notebook LCDs with larger than 6 bit are never really used or put into production, due to power condumption and bandwidth.

Say you have a 1600x1200 LCD.
Each pixel consists of three subpixels. That's 5760000 pixels. Each subpixels can attain 6 bits of information. That is 368640000 different possibilities in total.
The LCDs always have a driver board with a processor to do a table lookup. This table consists of values to send to each coloumn and row driver, i.e. a binary code representing a voltage.
So it will have to do 5760000 lookups per refresh, which is typically 60 times per second.
If that takes one clock cycle, you could do that with a 345.6 MHz processor. Still, this is not what is quite done in practice i'm sure.
Having a higher bit-depth, say 8-bit requires a larger look-up table, which requires even more memory.

Eh... probably got to much into it now. :lol:

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#10 Post by agarza » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:40 pm

In my opinion Acer laptops are horrible. The fact than you got accustomed to have a great laptop keyboard (Thinkpad) makes the competition looks ridiculously cheap keyboard and design overall. I prefer hooking up my T42p to my 32" Samsung display. It's not that big, not even Full HD but i'm on a budget here. IT's a real shame 4:3 Thinkpads will be gone soon. I wish I could buy an new T61p 14.1" SXGA+ the same as my current machine, but they're dissapearing fast. 15.4" will be the maximum I will go, but will require having another ultraportable to travel with or to with it to work
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T440p:
Core i7-4710MQ|8GB RAM|Intel SSD S3700 200GB | 14.1" IPS FHD | Windows 7 Pro, T450 Trackpad, Backlit keyboard, 2nd Caddy
Past: T420 HD+, X61s XGA, T61 14" SXGA+, T42p 14.1 SXGA+, T30, A22e

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