Selling a used laptop

[Ken Fox]

I started to post this as a response in a long running thread in this forum where a forum member has been trying unsuccessfully (for weeks) to sell a particular used laptop. In the end I decided to make a separate thread out of it, both for the reason to avoid the appearance of "ruining a sale," and also so that the comments can be taken more generally and of value to anyone in the position of selling a used laptop either here on thinkpads.com or on ebay.

Used laptops are like used cars; given a choice, most buyers would prefer to buy new, and expect a very large discount if they buy used. In addition, one does not know for certain how a laptop was treated before, which adds to the uncertainty which makes buyers very leery of paying too much.

I myself recently bought a very similar laptop to the one I saw listed here, new in the box, with a full 3 year warranty, for about what I could have bought the one listed here USED. I saw that listing I refer to here before I bought the new one on ebay, and chose to buy the new one as it simply was a better deal. I'm sure this exact same scenario plays itself out daily here with potential buyers seeing listings here and then buying elsewhere because they found a "better deal," and this is one reason I felt motivated to make this post.

The manufacturers have been lowering their prices on new laptops over time and this has only made the situation worse for those who would like to sell a used laptop. The fact that you might have paid XXX dollars for your used laptop when it was new is of no importance whatsoever to the potential buyer, who is going to look only at what the cost is NOW for both new and used laptops like what he or she is seeking. You need to look at the sale of your used laptop the way the potential buyers will look at the transaction; they are going to see what their other options are and will then try to pick the best deal, for them.

Thinkpads.com is one place you can sell a laptop, but there are many other places such as Craig's List (with which I have no experience) or ebay. The potential buyers on Thinkpads.com tend to be more knowledgeable about Thinkpads than your average person, and unless they see a screaming deal, they are probably not going to bite. There are also fewer potential buyers in a place like the Marketplace forum here then you will find on ebay, for example, which further diminishes your chances of selling here. By all means try to sell your laptop here, but unless it is a really good deal, it is probably not going to move.

Before even listing your laptop for sale, either here or on ebay, invest 5 or 10 minutes of your time over on ebay using the search function and searching under "completed listings only" for the type of laptop you are selling. This will give you a very good idea of what the current market will bear for your particular used laptop. You can be sure that most of your potential buyers HERE will do just that, so you might as well have the information yourself before you try to sell.

Make your price reasonable, in relationship to what you have learned from your search on ebay. Simply saying that you will accept offers will not get you the offers you seek if your asking price is out of line. People will not want to insult you if your price is way too high so they won't make the offer at all.

Used laptops are fungible; there is a market for them at the right price even if that price is not what you would like to accept. If you have tried to sell your laptop for more than a few days and have not succeeded, then something is wrong, and you need to reevaluate what you are doing or you are going to end up wasting a whole lot of time and in the end you won't do any better than if you had simply asked a semi-reasonable price to begin with. Also, if it doesn't sell here you have a better chance on ebay, if for no other reason that there are hugely more buyers over there who will read your listing than you will find here on the marketplace forum.

Good luck.

Note from Admin: Moved to General ThinkPad News/Comments & Questions. Stop whining about the mods. If you want an unmoderated venue, comp.sys.laptops is thataway ->

[tfflivemb2]

Very well said Ken. This is the reason that I very seldom sell a laptop here on this forum. I can get more locally for them. I can turn around T30s for about $350-400, and T4xs for $400 plus locally, but they will only go for $200-250 here in the forum.

As you said, the prices on usedx laptops have dropped as the result of the dropping prices of new laptops, plain and simple.

Now. having said this, I still wanted you to know that I moved this to Off-Topic, where it belongs.

Thanks for the post...

[underclocker]

Very well stated and written. This is how I generally think and act, as well. When buying, I prefer to look for better value, when selling I price appropriately (at least I think so!)

However, there are a few big caveats to this logical line of reasoning and several nuances (which I won't list, but could be a combination of any of the items below and more) which will always cause outliers with regard to used sales prices.

1) Some buyers are uneducated about the market (just note the 600 model ThinkPads that still sell for hundreds!) and computer/computer specs. (they just don't understand all the numbers and jargon). Confusion causes buying "mistakes".

2) Some buyers are just plain dumb.

3) Some people have more money than time (they don't care about a deal, they want what they want).

And with regard to sales on this forum, some people are willing to spend a little bit more to buy a machine that is accurately described by a knowledgeable forum member. Sometimes those machine are worth a little more, too. Some just want to patronize those with a common hobby.

[qviri]

In addition, one does not know for certain how a laptop was treated before, which adds to the uncertainty which makes buyers very leery of paying too much.

This is actually one area where this forum has a large advantage over other alternatives when it comes to buying used Thinkpads. A lot of the listings on eBay especially are either horrible with details (who needs to know screen resolution of a 15" T60 anyway), or feature gems like "super fast" P-III laptops and the QXGA T42p. Also refer to rkawakami's attempts to get the 7-character product code out of some eBay sellers and the notorious habit of listing the laptop in "good" cosmetic condition with a stock picture and no details whatsoever.

People around here know their Thinkpads and will tell you more about what they're selling than "SUPER FAST THINKPAD NOTEBOOK LAPTOP EXC COND LQQK". I suppose buying here as opposed to trying to coax details out of eBay sellers could be interpreted as having more money than time, but there really does come a point where investing the time and the patience is not worth it.

[Ken Fox]

Very well said Ken. This is the reason that I very seldom sell a laptop here on this forum. I can get more locally for them. I can turn around T30s for about $350-400, and T4xs for $400 plus locally, but they will only go for $200-250 here in the forum.

As you said, the prices on usedx laptops have dropped as the result of the dropping prices of new laptops, plain and simple.

Now. having said this, I still wanted you to know that I moved this to Off-Topic, where it belongs.

Thanks for the post...

How is this post any more "off topic" than a very large number of posts that remain on the Marketplace Forum?

By putting it here, it is dead, and no one to whom it is directed will read it. How many people ever go to this sub-forum, "Off Topic Stuff?" I never do.

I'm sorry, but I see this as yet another case of "over moderation," which unfortunately is so prevalent on thinkpads.com that it deters people from making the effort to make substantive posts.

[gator]

ken, a nice and informative post about sales here for beginners, but nothing new most active members don't know already.

Offtopic is a pretty active forum and is visited by many. There are some very interesting discussions here and people do come by and participate.

By moving your post to marketplace, ttflivemb2 probably has helped it gain more visibility - ths would have fallen to the 2nd page by monday.

This forum remains one of the best forums on the net because of the way it is moderated. Once in a while mistakes are made (none of us are perfect), but this is not one of those instances.

[tfflivemb2]

How is this post any more "off topic" than a very large number of posts that remain on the Marketplace Forum?

By putting it here, it is dead, and no one to whom it is directed will read it. How many people ever go to this sub-forum, "Off Topic Stuff?" I never do.

I'm sorry, but I see this as yet another case of "over moderation," which unfortunately is so prevalent on thinkpads.com that it deters people from making the effort to make substantive posts.

I'm sorry that you feel that moving a non For Sale or Want to Buy post out of the Marketplace was "over moderation". Here I am giving you a pat on your back for the commentary, especially since I agreed with you....then you turn around and accuse me of "over moderating"...thanks...I appreciate it. You are one of the first to indicate that something that I did was "over moderation".

The fact of the matter is, the Marketplace is meant for FS and WTB posts, not a thesis (albiet a good one). If any of us see something like this, we are most likely going to move it. Yes, sometimes there are threads that go on an on, and generally aren't relevant to the FS or WTB ad. In this specific case, it wasn't even attached to a FS or WTB ad.

Also, as Sri (gator) stated, it is the moderation of this forum that makes it as great as it is. If you aren't happy with the over all moderation, or "over moderation"....the road is that way ----->

[ajkula66]

In my not-so-modest experience of selling ThinkPads on this forum, here's what I've come up with:

a) If you have a run-of-the-mill T23 (T40, R60, X21...you fill in the blanks) you're likely to get more money on eBay. There is very little interest here in average units.

b) If you have a slightly/very unusual machine, or one in outstanding shape, four out of five times you'll do better here than on eBay or CL.

Bottom line, as I've always said, is: you can only take unfair advantage of someone here once, where you can do it half a zillion times on eBay. Quite a few people are willing to pay for that peace of mind, myself included.

My opinion only.

[rkawakami]

By putting it here, it is dead, and no one to whom it is directed will read it. How many people ever go to this sub-forum, "Off Topic Stuff?" I never do.

Ken,

I don't think that by moving this thread to the Off Topic or General News forum will cause it to die prematurely. For somebody who is interested in selling a laptop here and does the obvious search (enters "selling laptop" and checks the "search for all terms" option), it currently pops up on the top of the list (of 684). Since that's a fairly large list, I'll add the words advice and help and system so if somebody uses those words in their search, this thread will still be found. That's not important now but it will be useful in a month or so when this thread has died a natural death.

Also, if you are a frequent visitor to the site, it may help to use the "View posts since last visit" link near to top of the page after you sign on. For somebody like me who signs in almost every day (and who needs to see what's going on across the entire site) that's pretty much a given. Other members who infrequently visit but are looking for a particular topic will probably just use the search function or the "View your posts" link. Composing your post with words (i.e., synonyms) which might logically be used during a subsequent search helps greatly to keep it "visible" no matter what forum it is stored in. Of course if the searcher starts out by limiting the search to only one forum, say the Marketplace, then you're right, this thread won't be found. That points to the first rule of efficient searching: Cast a wide net first and then start to apply filters and/or get more specific.

[RealBlackStuff]

As probably the instigator of this thread, I thank everybody for their insights.
Funnily, I sold the T23 off-site, just after I started asking why it wouldn't sell.
Guess if it doesn't have SXGA+ or built-in wifi, T23s on this forum are difficult to 'flog'.

PS: off topic: I love the Off Topic forum.

[Ken Fox]

As probably the instigator of this thread, I thank everybody for their insights.
Funnily, I sold the T23 off-site, just after I started asking why it wouldn't sell.
Guess if it doesn't have SXGA+ or built-in wifi, T23s on this forum are difficult to 'flog'.

PS: off topic: I love the Off Topic forum.

You were not the "instigator" of this thread. I was motivated to write this regarding a for sale listing for a current model laptop that is less than a year old. The price being asked was at most 200 or $300 less than I could have bought a comparably equipped NEW laptop, with more warranty time than the seller had left.

I initially responded to the original poster in his thread (he had been trying to sell the thing for about 3 weeks) and just before hitting the send button I decided that the seller might think I was trying to kill his sale, so I rewrote the post as a general post to avoid that reaction.

I'm sorry if I over-reacted to having the post moved. I could see moving it but not to the "off topic" forum, which is something I'd (perhaps wrongly) think was the forum on which one posts about politics or the exploits of one's favorite football team!

ken

[BeeJayEmm]

...the "off topic" forum, ...on which one posts about politics or the exploits of one's favorite football team!

ken

Which is probably why a lot of readers make a point of stopping by. I do every visit.

Your advice seems right on. Perhaps an edited version could be stickied or incorporated into the For Sale Guidelines (if you ask very nicely ).

[basketb]

OP, excellent write-up. Totally agree with you. I just wish Lenovo outlet would get your memo. Otherwise, they wouldn't offer a (new) R52 for more than a grand: http://stores.channeladvisor.com/Lenovo ... kPad%20R52

[Miller88]

I sold mine on here for a few reasons. One, I wanted to sell it. Two, I wanted it to go to a good home. For the most part, someone buying a thinkpad on here would be more likely to treat it better. Third I don't quite trust ebay.

[Ken Fox]

I sold mine on here for a few reasons. One, I wanted to sell it. Two, I wanted it to go to a good home. For the most part, someone buying a thinkpad on here would be more likely to treat it better. Third I don't quite trust ebay.

This reminds me of my experience of selling my first house, in Anchorage, Alaska, in 1992 (if I recall correctly it might not have actually sold until close to 1993). I was on my way (gleefully) out of the state, and the real estate agent came over to see the house before it got listed.

I had put a lot of my heart and soul into remodeling that house, with everything from a wine cellar to a finished basement. I was proud of it. I greated the real estate lady with at the front door and offered her a glass of wine, which she accepted. We drank a glass of wine as we walked around the house. At the end of the tour, I (in my naivite) told the real estate lady that "I wanted to sell the house to someone "who would appreciate it."

She paused long enough to get my attention, and then (rightly) said, "you'll sell the house to the first person who offers you enough money to buy it."

Boy was she right; after 8 or 9 months, I was sure glad to unload that place, and by that point I couldn't have given a rip about who bought it or even what they ultimately did to my upgrades. And I've never gone back to look at it and at this point I couldn't care less even if it is still standing.

Harsh. But honest. And I suspect that most people who try to sell a used laptop without immediate success, regardless of venue, will feel exactly the same way when it finally sells.

[dorronto]

"Boy was she right; after 8 or 9 months, I was sure glad to unload that place, and by that point I couldn't have given a rip about who bought it or even what they ultimately did to my upgrades. And I've never gone back to look at it and at this point I couldn't care less even if it is still standing."

Good point Ken. I do know the feeling. Obviously, I do more buying and selling than maybe most people do, but a sale is a sale is a sale. Period.

Good post by the way no matter what Forum it's in,
Ron