T60 freezups

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RaviN · #1 Post by **RaviN** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:35 pm

T60 with 2GB factory RAM, 120GB HD, XP Pro SP2, ATI graphics.

A few weeks ago, I had a major failure on my T60 and got help via the Forum. Warranty service replaced the system board, flashed a new BIOS, and sent the system back. After a couple of memory parity errors on startup, the system more-or-less stabilized with one exception: The system randomly locks up - screen goes blank but there are still other signs of life. The wireless and battery LEDs stay lit, for example. The only way to get the system back is to reboot. Average interval between lockups is 24 hours so testing is tricky.

Called IBM: They suggested updating the ATI video driver, which I did. Didn't fix it.

Checked prior threads on T60 freezes: I do see dozens of acpiec warnings (not errors) on one date: 6/15/2008 but nothing from this morning when the problem happened again

Before asking for another warranty service, I'd like to ask if there are any other steps I should take to further isolate the problem. I'm suspecting the video chipset/video memory.

Thanks,

--- Ravi

crazyfrog · #2 Post by **crazyfrog** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:27 pm

Turn your laptop into hibernation and then restart. If you get any error after reboot, you have a faulty memory.

Alternatively, you can run PC-Doctor to diagnose.

RaviN · #3 Post by **RaviN** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:58 pm

crazyfrog wrote:Turn your laptop into hibernation and then restart. If you get any error after reboot, you have a faulty memory.

Alternatively, you can run PC-Doctor to diagnose.

I have run PC-Doctor a bunch of times on both the RAM and the graphics card since the unit came back from the depot - no errors.

How can I reboot out of hibernate? I've tried a long press on the power button but it resumes instead of rebooting. There are no obvious errors upon resume.

jimmy274 · #4 Post by **jimmy274** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:10 pm

I have the exact same problem sometimes, when I play movies (DivX, XviD, DVD...). Same, same, same...
The problem is ATi driver, as Lenovo suggested, but you should not update it, but go to the Catalyst Control Center and disable PowerPlay. In fact, I didn't even disable it, just put "optimal performance" instead of "optimal battery life" and no more freeze-ups ever since...

RaviN · #5 Post by **RaviN** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:53 am

jimmy274 wrote:I have the exact same problem sometimes, when I play movies (DivX, XviD, DVD...). Same, same, same...
The problem is ATi driver, as Lenovo suggested, but you should not update it, but go to the Catalyst Control Center and disable PowerPlay. In fact, I didn't even disable it, just put "optimal performance" instead of "optimal battery life" and no more freeze-ups ever since...

Thanks for the tip, it is helpful in an unusual way. I tried unchecking this option a few times. On three out of six occasions, it induced the freezup. One time, it actually went blue screen with a memory parity error indicating a problem in the atidvag2 driver. It said to contact the hardware vendor for support.

One time when it didn't freezup quickly, I still had a freezup occur a couple of hours later.

Looks like another trip to the depot is in the offing.

Yuj · #6 Post by **Yuj** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:36 pm

RaviN wrote:T60 with 2GB factory RAM, 120GB HD, XP Pro SP2, ATI graphics.

A few weeks ago, I had a major failure on my T60 and got help via the Forum. Warranty service replaced the system board, flashed a new BIOS, and sent the system back. After a couple of memory parity errors on startup, the system more-or-less stabilized with one exception: The system randomly locks up - screen goes blank but there are still other signs of life. The wireless and battery LEDs stay lit, for example. The only way to get the system back is to reboot. Average interval between lockups is 24 hours so testing is tricky.

Called IBM: They suggested updating the ATI video driver, which I did. Didn't fix it.

Checked prior threads on T60 freezes: I do see dozens of acpiec warnings (not errors) on one date: 6/15/2008 but nothing from this morning when the problem happened again

Before asking for another warranty service, I'd like to ask if there are any other steps I should take to further isolate the problem. I'm suspecting the video chipset/video memory.

Thanks,

--- Ravi

there seems to be an issue that is absolutely the same with Intel 945 chipset and the latest drivers. rather than updating, roll back the drivers.

it's the drivers rather than anything else. the same issue exists on X60, see here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=62561

RaviN · #7 Post by **RaviN** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:28 pm

Thanks for the tip. I have read the referenced threads and done a lot of other searching but am not sure how far back to roll the driver for the T60. I've been experimenting with a few things that might also bear on the freezups but just when I think I'm out of the woods, it will happen. It definitely is correlated with watching DVDs, online video such as Veoh TV, and other graphics intensive activities.

azpirin · #8 Post by **azpirin** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:26 pm

I am experiencing the same problem. Sometimes, it upsets me because it happens while I work on long document/presentation etc that I have not saved.

Mine happens like screen freezes with mouse pointer goes to top left corner and won't move. Keyboard does not respond nor the touch pad. I have to push down and hold the power button to reboot.

I feel that it may have to do with overheating??? I truly hope that someone comes up with a solution to fix this problem.

Grimmeh · #9 Post by **Grimmeh** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:01 am

I had this very problem, too. Let's not give up on this. Have any of you tried rolling back the video drivers yet?

Ravin, to be specific, I get it when watching videos, too.

It is not an overheating issue, as I've had it happen to me with the GPU only at 63 degrees.

It might be RAM-related, but I suspect that it's a problem with the communication between the video card and the motherboard or processor.

Edit: I think I might have fixed it!

I rolled back my chipset drivers:

1. Right click "My Computer" and click "Properties".
2. "Hardware" tab, "Device Manager".
3. Expand "System devices" and find "Mobile Intel(R) 945GM/PM/GMS/940GML and Intel(R) 945GT Express PCI Express Root Port - 27A1"
4. Right click on it and go to "Properties". Click on the "Driver" tab and click "Roll Back Driver".

Doing this set me back to driver version 7.1.0.1015, with driver date 12/27/2005.

I've been trying to crash my computer with videos since and it's been working great!

RaviN · #10 Post by **RaviN** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:45 am

Thanks for the suggestion. Apparently my system has no backed up drivers for such a rollback. The listed date on the dialog box is 12/27/05, v.7.1.0.1015, the same as the one that worked for you.

When I have issues with the video, I most often get a black screen and have to power off and on. Occasionally I will get a blue screen pointing to atidvag2.dll and saying to contact support.

This morning, I got a blue-screen of death when I unplugged the notebook from the charger. "Hardware Malfunction, call your hardware vendor for support..."

In my case I think there is something fubar with the motherboard. In late May the system went completely dead and Lenovo put in a new system board and sent it back.

I'll be getting a box on Tuesday and will be sending it back to the depot.

On the one hand, I am happy that Lenovo stands by its products. On the other hand, this will be the third or fourth time in less than two years that the unit will have gone back to the depot.

#11 Post by **gator** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:09 pm

One last thing to try before you send it on: disable hotkey polling in the ATI catalyst center. If that doesn't work, just send it in and lenovo will take care of it.

RaviN · #12 Post by **RaviN** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:59 pm

Trying this option as I type.
(Catalyst Control Center -> Hotkeys -> Hotkeys Manager -> uncheck Enable Hotkeys -> Ok)

A few days ago, I exited the ATI Catalyst Control Center altogether to see if it was the cause. Still had a failure after that. Would that make any difference to the Hotkey disabling test?

#13 Post by **gator** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:08 pm

Not sure if we are on the same page here ... if I remember right, there should be an option to disable hotkey polling (not just hotkeys). If that option is hidden somewhere else, you can simple disable the service in adminstrative tools-->services in control panel of windows XP.

Troels · #14 Post by **Troels** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:47 pm

Hmm, judging from your prior thread and this; was Windows not reinstalled at any point in the service/repair process?
If it isn't, that would be the first thing i'd do.

Secondly, ATi seems to have a lot of crazy, unpredicatble ideas with their drivers these days... some compression method calls are suddenly missing without notice from their newer drivers, and they have not been able to do anything about it for the last three or four revisions.
The last good one is based on catalyst 7.12, in my opinion.

RaviN · #15 Post by **RaviN** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:53 pm

The first couple of problems were right out of the box in January 2007 with the wireless card shutting off whenever I plugged it in or out from the wall. It took a lot of time on the phone, one or two send backs, and finally I found this Forum and learned how to fix the configuration so I didn't have to reboot every time I wanted to hook up or come off the mains. The depot may or may not have reinstalled Windows at that time.

In late May of this year I sent it back because the entire system went completely dead. I think the chips were running too hot and finally gave up the ghost. On the advice of people here, I kept my HD because I didn't want them doing anything to my Windows installation and I also had information that I didn't want to compromise. I've never had much luck with the installed Thinkvantage software for wireless and backup so I didn't feel like trusting it to create secure partitions.

When I got it back, I had a BSOD on power up tagging memory. I reseated the RAM chips and, over time, figured out that there is something seriously the matter with the video. I don't know what to do about ATI Catalyst - I suppose it is very powerful but it is a gigantic installation and feels like overkill. I just want to do normal data processing and number crunching and watch the occasional webcast or DVD. I don't play online games or anything that should stress a modern processor.

I did have some freezups in the first year of ownership (2007) but never knew what caused it. I've been watching more online video this year and it has become a big deal because it is so intermittent. I know it is going to crash, I just have no idea when so I can avoid doing whatever it is that sets it off.

Off to see if I can implement gator's hotkey polling suggestion.

Grimmeh · #16 Post by **Grimmeh** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:09 pm

Well, never mind my previous post. It's still happening, even after the chipset driver rollback.

Sigh.

Edit: And I have previously formatted and reinstalled Windows on this machine and the problem did not go away.

RaviN · #17 Post by **RaviN** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:07 am

I disabled Hotkey Polling from the Services menu but I ultimately still had a black screen crop up.

I hope this isn't a fundamental flaw with the T60.

Dodge DeBoulet · #18 Post by **Dodge DeBoulet** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:02 am

RaviN wrote:I disabled Hotkey Polling from the Services menu but I ultimately still had a black screen crop up.

I hope this isn't a fundamental flaw with the T60.

If it's a "fundamental" flaw, then it's not a "universal" one. I do not experience this problem with my T60 now, although it did occur sometimes during its first 6 months in my possession.

Grimmeh · #19 Post by **Grimmeh** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:17 pm

I'm running on the 8743CTO. What about you, Ravin?

RaviN · #20 Post by **RaviN** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:24 pm

Grimmeh wrote:I'm running on the 8743CTO. What about you, Ravin?

I have an 8744-5BU. 2GB RAM, 120GB HD, ATI graphics card (Mobility Radeon, I believe). I have not delved too deeply into which set of chips may be in the graphics adapter.

#21 Post by **gator** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:35 pm

RaviN, one last question before you turn to depot repair: do you see this issue when you say, boot and work from a ubuntu live CD?

RaviN · #22 Post by **RaviN** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:55 pm

gator wrote:RaviN, one last question before you turn to depot repair: do you see this issue when you say, boot and work from a ubuntu live CD?

Gator,

I have never tried any OS except for XP on this machine. It is already boxed and ready to go but I will look into Ubuntu Live between now and the repair return. While I've heard of Ubuntu, I know nothing about it or other than it is one of the most popular of Linux distributions.

JurieDP · #23 Post by **JurieDP** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:01 am

Afternoon All,

I have found a similar problem. I'm using MDT 2008 to install our OS at work.

All the T60's tend to hang somewhere in windows. After it hangs, its stays there until you switch it off.

Does anyone know why maybe...?

The only way I get them to work is if I manually repair the XP installation. I won't be able to do that on over 200 T60's.

Thx

RaviN · #24 Post by **RaviN** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:05 pm

Just sprung the returned T60 from DHL. No test report, no indication anything was done. The unit was upside down in the foam padding, no plastic sleeve, and with my detailed failure description tossed on top of it. Lenovo hardware support was closed before the notional 8pm eastern time as well.

Should I have a bad feeling about this?

At least no parity errors on boot - testdriving will tell I suppose.

Zender · #25 Post by **Zender** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:52 am

I have discovered that my T60 with ATI X1400 graphics will crash on playing graphics card-accelerated HD H264 videos. That is, playing them in recent PowerDVD, which can use this graphics card's capability. It might happen with other videos in PowerDVD too, but I don't use that program for anything other than HD videos. The computer will lock up with blank screen and reboot after a while. After reboot, it will play the same video fine... but a day later, it will crash on it again.
Haven't tried to search for a solution much, as I only get one test per day... certainly not nice.

Grimmeh · #26 Post by **Grimmeh** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:13 am

Zender, can you post your computer's specs? That sounds like my problem, except I use other video programs.

Zender · #27 Post by **Zender** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:31 am

It's the one in my signature.
T60 2007-FUG. That is Core2 Duo 1.8GHz, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400.
BIOS: 2.21 - latest
Video drivers: 8.441 - one before latest, applied them quite a some time ago to solve swapped primary/secondary displays after undock&dock (was there two versions before mine) and to solve problem with display chaging to 1024x768 after being closed when running (bug re-introduced one version before mine)

RaviN · #28 Post by **RaviN** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:53 pm

RaviN wrote:Just sprung the returned T60 from DHL. No test report, no indication anything was done. The unit was upside down in the foam padding, no plastic sleeve, and with my detailed failure description tossed on top of it. Lenovo hardware support was closed before the notional 8pm eastern time as well.

Should I have a bad feeling about this?

At least no parity errors on boot - testdriving will tell I suppose.

System still conks out from time-to-time after prolonged video play although it took longer to crash than it did before. Apparently the depot confirmed the memory error, replaced the RAM, and sent the unit back after PC-Doctor said there were no other problems. However, PC-Doctor says the system is ok and it will still conk out later.

Sounds like the video chipset in this flavor of T60 has some problems.

RaviN · #29 Post by **RaviN** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:30 am

gator wrote:RaviN, one last question before you turn to depot repair: do you see this issue when you say, boot and work from a ubuntu live CD?

Gator,

I got Ubuntu Live and tried it after the unit came back from the depot. Unfortunately, I could not get networking set up correctly to try to replicate some of the web-based crashes I'd seen under WinXP. It detected the hardware but that's where it stopped. The Ubuntu online help often referred to menu items that didn't exist, at least in the version I downloaded so I had to punt. I wasn't able to find my Windows filesystem either (not sure that I should have) to try videos already installed on the hard drive.

Kaz · #30 Post by **Kaz** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:09 pm

Ravi, I feel your pain. Have been dealing with similar issues for a while now, but only when viewing videos, streaming that is. I have not used my T60 for watching DVDs so I cannot comment whether the freeze will occur in this mode of operation. See signature for system specs. We share the same model. For the most part, my T60 has performed flawlessly with the exception of this freeze_lockup issue.

Here are my facts to the best of my recollection as follows:
1. Issue has only occurred when watching streaming videos from the internet using Windows Medial Players 10 or 11. Have not attempting to use other video players. As stated above, never have I attempting to watch a DVD to determine if an issue exists there as well.
2. 945 chipset is version 8.2.0.1008, 9/13/2006 from Intel
3. Freeze happens whether IE and Windows Media Player are open alone or when also running Outlook, Firefox 2.x in conjunction
4. Have tried rolling back Lenovo provided ATI driver for X1400 without success. Currently back to using latest driver 8.442.3.0, 1/3/2008.
5. In ATI Catalyst Control Center - PowerPlay, tried setting 'Plugged in' to 'Optimal performance' without success.
6. Tried disabling Hotkeys without success.
7. Today, repeated freeze issues easily after playing some streaming WMV videos from the Internet. Issue results in solid black screen and and only Numlock and LED light will work from keyboard. Result is to manually power off and reboot.
8. Before freeze, used TPFanControl (only used in BIOS mode for monitoring, not smart mode) and CPU temp runs around 53C and GPU at 63C after playing multiple streaming videos.
9. Have tried many different BIOS versions without success. Currently running latest version, 1.14, 4/16/2008.
10. Have never attempting to try other ATI Mobility Radeon drivers other than those available from the Lenovo website
11. Cannot recall whether issue also occurs in battery mode as I primarily use the laptop in AC mode.
12. Issues exists whether running Windows XP SP2 or SP3 - currently on SP3
13. I do not have an external keyboard, mouse, or monitor. Essentially, I am using my T60 standalone and primarily use the mouse pad.
14. Tried installing many of the MS knowledge base updates promoted by others without success.

There are, most likely, other tests that I've tried, but cannot recall at this time. However, all without success. Today, after reviewing reader inputs, I disabled PowerPlay while maintaining the 'Plugged In' setting at 'Optimal Performance'. I ran multiple streaming videos from the Internet and was not able to re-create the freeze. I ran streaming videos from about 45 minutes without issue. Call it luck or perhaps, finally, a fix. I re-enabled Hot Key's and still could not re-create the issue.

Have you ever attempted to disable PowerPlay???

Obviously, there are so many variables involved such as:
1. OS and Software installed and what is running in the background
2. Hardware
3. Versions of the hardware drivers
4. AC mode vs. battery mode
5. ATI Catalyst Control Center settings
6. Other

Thanks to all who have provided input in the past. This forum has been invaluable to me.

I will not claim victory until after running multiple streaming videos for 1-2 months without issue.

Good luck to all.

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