T60 freezups

[GoofyG28]

I don't have much to contribute to the investigation or resolution of the black-screen-of-death issue. I just want to say THANK YOU for being so aggressive and proactive in working together to at least (hopefully) convince Lenovo that this is a very serious issue.

I thought I was alone on this. My T60 has been experiencing the crash maybe a year ago (can't remember). Never had any problems before then. And from what I can observe, it does seem to happen whenever I'm watching videos (both streaming and offline files).

So, again, I just want to thank all of you guys for your efforts, and I hope we get a fix soon. I'm moving out of the country in a month, so sending it back to the US depot is not a convenient option for me.

[Kaz]

All, just an update from my 7/31/08 posting. My 60 is still running very well with no freeze occurrences. Will continue to run this way for at least one more week before deciding whether to move forward with any power management software installations.

Are there others that have attempted any testing and/or repairs that care to comment on their findings?

[RaviN]

After several more days of testing, I am leaning toward moving on without sending my system in for repair.

I have removed Notebook Hardware Controller from my system. I have had one freezup over the last couple of days and I can't be sure if it is a problem of the T60's power management or perhaps some glitch with Winamp. Other media players have not caused a freeze recently (famous last words?)

Thanks to all for the helpful comments and to Kaz for the thorough testing. I'll keep watching the thread in case I find something pertinent to report.

--- Ravi

[Grimmeh]

Kaz, seeing your success with your configuration, I'm going to try doing some changes you've made:

I have...

i. Installed: Atheros driver 6.0.3.94 (6/26/07) for 11 a/b/g/n
Wireless Lan Mini-PCI Express Adapter, and set Power Save Mode to "OFF".

ii. Installed: older ATI Driver v. 8.293.1.0 (9/13/06)
WITHOUT the corresponding ATI
CCC software.

iii. Uninstalled: ATI CCC

This is all I've done so far and haven't crashed (but these things seem to take a while sometimes). I'll run it in this configuration until it crashes and I'll if/when it does, I'll also install the other programs you installed.

Wish me luck!

[Opcode]

I've also experienced the random video-playback related lockups described in this thread.

My laptop is a T60p model 2007-FBG. I am running Windows XP Professional with SP3. As the lockups seemed to take place only when the WLAN adapter was under heavy load, I had associated the lockups with a bug either in the WLAN or the video driver. I have tried most of the tests and proposed workarounds seen in this thread during the past months, but none of those proved to resolve the issue.

Upon stumbling onto this thread and seeing that others have had the same symptoms on systems with a different WLAN adapter (mine is an Intel 3945ABG), it began to seem that the WLAN driver might not be the culprit.

This (and the reference to Omega Drivers - that I had all forgotten about years ago - earlier on in this thread) led me to experiment a bit more on the video driver side. The latest version of the Omega Drivers is actually based on the same version as the latest driver from IBM/Lenovo (8.442, Catalyst 7.12), so I decided against fiddling with that and chose to install the latest official driver from ATI instead. For systems such as mine with an ATI Mobility FireGL V5200, the current version of the official driver (the FireGL Software Suite) is 8.502 (based on Catalyst 8.6) and can be downloaded from here. Other ATI display adapters should use Catalyst 8.7, available here.

The official ATI driver will need to be modified a bit so as to make it install on a ThinkPad. Luckily there is a recent utility to take care of that. The utility is called Mobility Modder and is available for download here.

The 8.502 driver seems to have cured the problems at least on my system - I haven't had a single lockup since its installation despite very heavy stress testing (and I have the IBM/Lenovo power management and ATI PowerPlay enabled).

Your mileage may vary, but it might be a good idea to try and install the latest ATI driver.

[Mark@Lenovo]

All,

Apologies for the delay - Bill did bring this to my attention previously and I've been remiss in following up.

I read through the 3 pages here and have been very impressed with the extensive nature of your testing and record keeping.

My overall impression of the discussion is that you are pointing to the ATI video drivers, although there have been some wildcards in the discussion related to WLAN.

Does the group here have a consensus on the problem statement?

If no consensus, we will try to digest the 3 pages of effort here and see what we can suggest, or try to re-create.

Thanks again, for the thoughtful work

Mark

[RaviN]

Mark,

In my case, I think I had video/power management and wireless problems. Now, I think I am dealing with wireless problems

1) Video/power management: Disabling Powerplay management in Notebook Hardware Control seems to have fixed the _reproducible_ video crashes and BSODs

In retrospct, I think a lot of my black screen/blue screen crashes correlated well with periods of high wireless activity

2) Wireless problems: Coming to light over the past couple of days per
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=65737

I am noticing random loss of Internet access through my wireless router/cable modem. Although I can still see an IP address, subnet mask, and gateway configured, I will lose the ability to send/receive external data. I can still get to the router's configuration page and release/refresh the connection to get the Internet access back. Curiously, using Windows's connection repair does not have the same result although it supposedly does the same thing. But, this specific hiccup is new and I am not sure what has caused it

I've reloaded the Atheros driver for my card but that hasn't fixed it. This problem occurred when I was running SP2 up until a couple of days ago when I installed SP3 - ie. it is not service pack dependent. I run with the Power Management on the wireless card disabled in all cases

My current hypotheses:
a) There is something the matter with the wireless card and/or its driver that contributed to the serious video crashes when there was also a video Power Management problem

b) Having resolved the video Power Management problem, I am now dealing with the problems from the wireless card and/or its driver

Known problems with b)
PC Doctor 5 repeatedly shows that the card and connectivity are fine so I am reluctant to ask for a new wireless card from Lenovo.

I can't explain why the wireless card didn't randomly drop connectivity before fixing the video Power Management. I can wave my hands and say that the crashes happened when the connectivity was lost but it is not very convincing

I would like to try updated drivers for the Atheros card but am not sure where exactly in the Lenovo site to find them. I know from past experience that it is easy to accidentally load Intel drivers and that causes a world of hurt

[netchewz]

Ravi,
You can find the latest drivers on the T60/p driver matrix.

Mark,
Thanks for taking up the case!

In a nutshell, Kaz and I have had the black screen of death when playing videos after our T60s have been in standby or hibernate. The freezes happen when starting playback of videos (there's no need to play through an entire video), although sometimes it can take several videos before encountering a freeze.

Personally, I found it very difficult to reproduce the freeze when the wireless switch was off - I still did get the freeze once or twice, but with much difficulty.
As Opcode seems to have shown, the problem seems to occur regardless of the wireless card.

Not sure if it's of any use, but I'll add this anyway:
Before I reverted to an older video driver, I managed to reproduce the crash with the wireless switched on during a powercut - ie. when there were no wireless networks available. Maybe this shows that network activity is not the culprit?

The freezes happened when I was using the latest Omega drivers. Others who've posted used the latest ATI driver from Lenovo, which I'd tried a few months ago (with the same problems).

I've since reverted to an older Omega driver, and have not had a single freeze since. Unless something has happened since, Kaz seems to have had similar success with an older driver from Lenovo, and Opcode seems to have had success with a newer driver using Mobility Modder.

As Opcode pointed out above, the latest Omega driver and Lenovo driver are based on the same base driver from ATI (display driver 8.442) - it's very likely this is the source of the problem.

Hopefully that covers everything we've experienced - Ravi's problem seems to be different, hopefully the latest wireless drivers will solve them :/

[RaviN]

Netchewz,

Thanks for the suggestion and the pointer to the T60/p driver matrix page. I've bookmarked it.

I created a system restore point, downloaded the newest 6.0.3.94 wireless 11a/b/g/n
driver, uninstalled the 6.0.2.38b version, and installed the new version.

After a reboot, I tried the CBS online site and Medici.tv site to which I referred in another thread. In the latter case, I selected the High Speed version which worked for me as recently as a couple of weeks ago when I was having other video problems. Video from both sides froze and I had to release/refresh from the router control page.

I have cable modem service from Time Warner. When hardwired, I can get download speeds of ~10Mbps on nearby sites. On wireless the download speeds are in the 6-7Mbps range. I am therefore ruling out insufficient bandwith as a cause. I also don't have the same problem on my old Sony Vaio. The video is choppy but it never freezes.

I am off to try a hardwired connection to the cable modem to see if that also freezes. If so, I won't know what to think.

Update: 12 Aug 2008
I connected directly to the cable modem, turned the software firewall off, and bypassed my proxies on FF3 and IE6: Intermittent connections all over the place. Many common websites do not resolve giving errors, work a few minutes later, and then stop. Same thing running pings from the Cmd prompt to yahoo.com and google. com. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. My Pegasus email client also would not be able to connect to my POP server and then all of a sudden connect and download.

I took this to Time Warner cable again and finally, a customer service rep confirmed that there seems to be some trouble between them and my cable modem. I had called them a few times over the last several days and they did not acknowledge any problems or service outages in my area. Tonight, they did.

Since I am renting the modem from TWC, I can exchange it at a local office at no cost. Since this is now a five year old device, I am hoping that it is at fault and that I don't have to take time of of work to have someone come out to work on the actual cable.

Unfortunate coincidences...

Update 2: 13 Aug 2008

I installed a new cable modem today and can now connect to high bandwidth video sites. I've also not seen any dropouts in connectivity, video or otherwise over several hours. Something was clearly amiss here. The odds of this connection snafu being caused by the T60 have gone down to nearly zero.

[Kaz]

Mark,

Thanks for getting involved! Netchewz did of very good job in his summary and I share the same thoughts. Tomorrow, I will be running 2 weeks since the changes made in my 7/31/08 posting without any freeze issues. I even downloaded all the MS Security updates that were made available yesterday and am still running without issue.

Although the leading candidate, it would be easy to communicate to
Lenovo that it should just concentrate on the video driver as the
culprit, but I believe in order to properly partition out what has taken place over time, some or all of the following should be reviewed:

1. Review last 4 video drivers, determine what has changed, and
where corruption (freeze symptom) could have been introduced:
a. 8.293.1.0 (9/13/2006)
b. 8.383.1.1 (9/11/2007)
c. 8.441-071128a-056348C (12/14/2007)
d. 8.442.3.0 (1/3/2008)

For me, freeze issues generated with last two drivers for sure. I
am currently running on 8.293.1.0. For some reason, these last
two were generated within weeks of each other.

2. For the above list, I have always utilized the ThinkVantage
System Update software for search and automatic installation of
updates. Is this system robust enough for installation of video
drivers and is there the potential for corruption to set in if the
process is indeed not robust?

For the setup I outlined in my 7/31/08 post, I utilized the
following procedure for un-installing the latest video driver and
re-installing the old driver communicated above:

http://www.driverheaven.net/windows-xp- ... perly.html

This procedure just appeared more robust that un-installing the
new driver using add/remove, followed by simply installing the
old driver. Does it make a difference?

3. Determine why freeze improvements were seen (minimized or
eliminated) when testing with the wireless switch off.

4. Determine why the standby or hibernate states coupled with the
last two video drivers allowed for generating repeatability of the
freeze issue after coming out of these states and playing video.

5. Review video, wireless, and power management drivers
generated since Jan. 2007 to determine where issues
could be generated.

6. Testing probably needs to be performed on various models such
as T60 w/x1400 and T60P w/ATI Mobility FireGL V5200


Thanks again for your interest. Good luck and looking forward to a robust fix.

[Kaz]

Greetings all. Yesterday was a 2 week milestone after changes made on 7/31/08 (see post) and there continues to be no freezes experienced at all. I have greatly missed the Thinkpad PM software and will re-install it today, latest version 1.40, and will provide immediate feedback if a freeze symptom returns.

With regards to the Thinkpad PM Management Device Driver, which can be found under the System Devices section of your Device Drivers list, I am currently running v. 1.33. I do not plan to upgrade at this time. The below updates provided over time do not appear to apply to my model and I do not know what value v. 1.43 would provide me with the new "EnergyStar 4.0 support". Perhaps, this is for later models?

Version 1.44 (Certified)

* (New) Support for ThinkPad X300.

Version 1.43 (Certified)

* (New) Support for EnergyStar 4.0 support feature.

Version 1.42 (Certified)

* (New) Support for ThinkPad T61, R61, X61, X61s, X61 Tablet.

Version 1.41 (Certified)

* (Fix) Fixed the late-resume problem on ThinkPad Power Management Driver under the Windows Vista environment.

Version 1.40 (Certified)

* (New) Support for ThinkPad X60 Tablet.

Version 1.33 (Certified) - VERSION THAT I HAVE INSTALLED

* (New) Support for ThinkPad T60/T60p, X60/X60s.


If there are any updates from other users that have experienced these freezes, kindly update the forum, as Lenovo has taken an interest in this thread and any/all information will be of value. Thanks in advance.

[Kaz]

Just a quick update. Installed Thinkpad PM software, v 1.40 and ran through the same battery of tests that I have documented in this thread. No freezes occurred in either AC or battery mode and when playing video after resuming from multiple standby states. Will continue to monitor.

One thing that I noticed and has been reported by others in this thread, after installing the PM software v. 1.40 and using the "Thinkpad Default" power profile, I did notice repeatable flicker occurrences at the beginning of each video playback in battery mode only. There were a couple very quick screen flickers (the entire LCD was affected) and the video would start. The flickering did not turn the screen black. I would describe it as a power management type adjustment like when one goes from AC mode to Battery mode (bright to dim), but occurring very quickly 1-2 times before the video would play. As has been communicated here, this was resolved by creating a new power management profile within the PM software and changing the battery settings from "balance all parameters" under "Optimize fan control to:" to "Maximize Performance". Even with the flickering, I could not get my T60 to freeze.

Here is my current updated configuration:

i. Installed: Atheros driver 6.0.3.94 (6/26/07) for 11 a/b/g/n
Wireless Lan Mini-PCI Express Adapter- adapter setting
Max Power Save set to "None". Note that it was
set previously to "Normal". This is the same driver I had
before, but decided to uninstall, then reinstall it. I recall that
this driver resolved my inability to consistently obtain a strong
wireless connection so I was unwilling to go back to an older
version.

ii. Installed: older ATI Driver v. 8.293.1.0 (9/13/06)
WITHOUT the corresponding ATI
CCC software. This one came with my T60 and I did not have
these freezes when the laptop arrived in March 2007. Testing
performed with both 16 and 32 bit color quality modes and
1680 x 1050 resolution. Currently set to 32 bit.

iii. Uninstalled: ATI CCC - essentially I chose not to install this when I re-installed the older driver noted above

iv. Installed: older Thinkpad PM Device driver v. 1.33.0.0
(11/10/05). This one came with my T60 and I did not have
these freezes when the laptop arrived in March 2007.

v. Installed: Thinkpad Power Management Software, v 1.40

[Kaz]

Greeting all. Below is an updated configuration as of today and I am still free of any freeze issues after running my usual battery of tests. As many have communicated via feedback in this thread, the culprit certainly appears to be the video driver. What changed between yesterday and today is an upgrade of the TP PM Device Driver.

• i. Installed: Latest Atheros driver 6.0.3.94 (6/26/07) for 11 a/b/g/n
  Wireless Lan Mini-PCI Express Adapter- adapter setting
  Max Power Save set to "None". Note that it was
  set previously to "Normal". This is the same driver I had
  before, but decided to uninstall, then reinstall it. I recall that
  this driver resolved my inability to consistently obtain a strong
  wireless connection so I was unwilling to go back to an older
  version.
  
  ii. Installed: older ATI Driver v. 8.293.1.0 (9/13/06)
  WITHOUT the corresponding ATI
  CCC software. This one came with my T60 and I did not have
  these freezes when the laptop arrived in March 2007. Testing
  performed with both 16 and 32 bit color quality modes and
  1680 x 1050 resolution. Currently set to 32 bit.
  
  iii. Uninstalled: ATI CCC - essentially I chose not to install this when I re-installed the older driver noted above
  
  iv. Installed:Latest Thinkpad PM Device driver v. 1.44.0.0
  (11/2/07).
  
  v. Installed: Latest Thinkpad Power Management Software, v 1.40

Since Lenovo is reviewing this thread, please bear with me as I document some troubleshooting performed this morning as this is yet another example of a need for Lenovo to pay more attention to detail when rolling out new drivers and software. After installing TP PM software v. 1.40 yesterday, I noticed that I was not able to select 2 of the power schemes within the software. They were:

• 1. Power Source Optimized
  2. Video Playback
  However, I was able to select them using Win XP's Power Option (control panel). This prompted me to investigate root cause since I am a gluten for punishment.

In summary, my inability to select these schemes stems from the inability for the TP PM software to select a power policy with a number greater than 50 assigned to it. This can be found in the following URL (search for Michael Ma and Bug #2):

http://chris.brandlehner.at/Brandlehner ... BRR-6YWBNV

Before reviewing this URL, I first attempted to upgrade the TP Device Driver from 1.33 to 1.44. This did not resolve my issue. I then installed TP PM software from rev. 1.13c (came with my laptop) through the current 1.40 and still no resolution. Once I remembered the above URL I had saved some months ago, I found the following policy numbers assigned to my power schemes in the registry at location:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\PowerCfg\PowerPolicies\]

My profile policies were assigned the following numbers as follows:
1. Policies 0 through 5 - Win XP defaults
2. Policies 6 through 9 - Thinkpad defaults
3. Policy 229 - TP's Power Source Optimized
4. Policy 230 - TP's Video Playback

The simple fix was to rename Policy 229 to 10 and Policy 230 to 11 in the same above registry location. After a reboot, I was able to easily select both policies from the TP PM software.

• Believe an easy fix for an updated version of the TP PM software would be for Lenovo to allow the user to choose profile policies with numbers registered up to 999 or 9999. I don't know what the maximum count is that XP or Vista allow and will leave this up to Lenovo to determine. In addition, I am not able to see the XP default power profiles within the TP PM software. Is this by design or can it be added in a future release?

I found yet another bug after upgrading the TP PM Software to v. 1.40 and it is documented here and not model dependent (I have the exact same event entries):

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/mess ... 1448#M1448

These entries do not leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling that all is well. It can be fixed by rolling back to a previous version, which I plan to do later today. Granted that the entries are warnings, but for me not acceptable. They populate the event log rather quickly and I have not taken the time yet to determine what triggers them (e.g., after reboot, after standby/hibernate, or other events).

Now, can any of these bugs contribute to random freeze issues? I leave this for Lenovo to assist in answering, thus the reason I spent some time to document all my findings. I very much like my T60 when it is performing well, but as other users have communicated, it is frustrating, to say the least, troubleshooting these quality issues.

Lenovo, PLEASE, PLEASE change your internal policies for driver/software development and rollout in order to eliminate these issues in the future. Whether you are making any changes to the ATI drivers or not, the users look to you as the interface with ATI for feedback and resolution. For internally developed drivers and software, you certainly have 100% control over them. Thanks in advance.

[antelope]

Kaz, Ravi and others - thank you for your patience and dedication to documenting these problems.

I've followed this thread closely for the last couple of days to see if there are solutions to my graphics problem. I think it is somewhat different but I am starting to think it is related to the graphics driver which has overlaps with discussions here.

I recently bought my T60p secondhand through this forum along with two advanced mini-docks (2504). It seems to run fine when it is undocked. When docked it is connected to a Dell FP2001 1600x1200 via DVI. I am using a wired Logitech USB optical mouse. I have tried wired Dell keyboard with both USB and PS connections.

When docked and running the DVI the following problems exist:

1. The keyboard strokes are slightly delayed and not neccessarily delayed at the same delay interval (indicating a processing error?);
2. The mouse movement is delayed and crude. Mouse movement control is particularily bad when running AutoCAD LT which is somewhat graphics-intensive although my T42 handled it just fine (DVI worked fine through T42 w/ modded drivers). Mouse works fine when T60p is used as a laptop without the DVI screen.
(1. and 2. happen whether the mouse and keyboard are plugged into the dock or directly into the laptop)
3. Icons and pop-up windows in Outlook are slow to come up. These processes(graphics) should be instantaneous but are slow on a system with little overhead currently. They work fine when in straigh laptop mode.

FYI: Hard drive is partitioned to C: 60 GB for system and program files and G: 100 GB for data files.

I've searched the TP site and the Lenovo site but have only seen complaints of this problem, no solutions yet. Thus I keep looking and trying to see if the graphics issues described here might be related. Although it may be something different than the issues with this thread I thought I would report it in case it is helpfull to this discussion or if anyone knows what ails my system. Thanks.

[RaviN]

Antelope,

I have never put my T60 into a dock so I have no direct experience. When running purely as a laptop, I do see dropped characters - I am sure I struck a specific character or the shift key but the cursor just blinks and skips. This is not regular, though. I've not seen any mouse or trackpad related slowdowns unless the system is about to crash.

I'll offer a working hypothesis in case it is of any help in your debugging.

I believe that power control has been at the heart of a lot of the problems I've had with my T60. More specifically, lots of programs try to manage power settings and they can conflict with one another.

When I first got my T60 in early 2007, wireless kept disconnecting on me. This required turning off a power management setting in the driver and took about three weeks to find.

More recently, Notebook Hardware Control had settings that affected the power management on my ATI card. I thought I was turning it off through Catalyst Control Center but it was getting reset in NHC.

I also see a lot more power management options for the T60 in the Windows Power Management dialog compared to the Thinkpad Power Manager dialog - this is also new.

Perhaps you can set up a docked profile where you run with potentially conflicting programs sequentially disabled until you find the one that is slowing your response. I have not tried this of course but am offering it as a possibility.

[azpirin]

well, i still have trouble time to time. In my case, it feels like a graphic card error for over heating. It also happens when I play a game like starcraft. The grphics certainly gets fuzzy lines than black. I have to manually shut down and restart.

Left side of computer gets really hot, too. Overall, lenovo sucks for the price I paid for this sort of [censored] performance.

[Mark@Lenovo]

Azpirin,

Sorry to hear that you feel let down. I would suggest you contact service regarding your thermal issues. It could simply be a clogged fan, or a fan problem.

I've also seen misaligned heatsinks on the GPU cause issues, but usually that would only occur if someone had been working on the system.

Kaz, RaviN, antelope,

Thanks for all the hard work. Kaz, I sent you a PM for possible next steps for us to try to reproduce this.

Mark

[procul]

Hello everyone, I've been monitoring this thread for a while seeking answers to the same trouble all of you have experienced. My thanks - and commiseration - to all of you have worked to identify and resolve the video issues discussed & presented here. My story is much the same and may not add much to the discussion except another voice and confirmation of the same problems. I've tried the same fixes but with no more result than anyone else. Because I've been experiencing this for most of a year I've come up with a few ideas about the cause - unfortunately I don't have a solution SEE UPDATE BELOW

I have a 2007-8EU which ran flawlessly for a year and a half, or until about 9 months ago when I started getting the black screen during video playback. The first few times this occurred the machine simply shut down completely, in an instant. I first suspected battery trouble and possible overheating, but a new battery was accompanied by the same behavior.

Streaming video is less a problem for me, but I use it infrequently, and I have experienced the blank screen lock-up when browsing YouTube for more than about 40 minutes. This also occurs if previewing video files (using AcdSee); I will get a crash/freeze after a certain number of previews have been loaded. On the other hand I am often able to view an entire 60 or 90-minute program without any lockup. This makes me suspect there is a video cache problem, or a conflict of some kind with the video and system memory assignments.

I have tried every video player I can find, all with the same result. It makes no difference whether I am playing mpg, avi or wmv files, and even DVD (virtual drive) playback has given me the blank screen/ reboot. The behavior is entirely unpredictable.

I've had no problems with my wireless, in fact the wireless appears to be active after the screen goes blank. However, no Fn+ combinations or any other keyboard input will restore video. Nor can I suspend or hibernate the machine when the blank screen occurs, not even by shutting the lid. Everything is frozen except the wireless, which continues to receive signal if I was downloading at the time of the lock-up.

I've removed CCC and have removed PM but still get the blank screen. As noted above I suspected for a time that there might be an overheating problem, but the locking up seems to occur when the battery/power source is 'cold' as well. I have noticed however that if the battery compartment is hot to the touch at the time of the lock-up I have to let it sit and cool for a few minutes before rebooting, or the system will freeze on the first XP logo.

Bios is current. I tried rolling back video drivers to no avail. I'm tempted to perform a complete reinstall, except as we know this is not an easy task with a Lenovo laptop, nor was it ever easy with my previous IBM machines, due to the lack of install discs. And if the problem lies in driver conflict and video hardware then updating all software and drivers via the site will no doubt produce the same result.

I am sorry to say that this problem has soured me on the product and the company. IBM/Lenovos are the only laptops I've ever owned, or planned ever to own. I know that all laptops can have problems, but the pandemic nature of this and the lack of any real solution offered by Lenovo has me looking into other options for the near future. I've always been impressed with IBM's support and that's one of the reasons why I have whole-heartedly recommended their laptops to others. But unless this problem - with what was their top-of-the-line machine at time of purchase!! - is identified and resolved I'm afraid they will be losing both my business and my recommendations.

Cheers to all
Your partner in intermittent misery,
procul

[driftnet]

DISCLAIMER: I am neither a Windows guy nor a programmer, so take this with a grain of salt.

I've been having the parity check error crash as well on my 8744-5BU T60 widescreen with the ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 graphics. If my analysis is correct, this is a driver issue.

My system BIOS version is 1.14 (7IET33WW, 04/16/2008), the most current available version for this system. The system runs Windows XP Professional with SP3 applied. I'm using the latest Lenovo-supplied graphics drivers. Lenovo lists them as "8.442.3-080103a1-057754C-Lenovo", released January 31, 2008. The driver package information as reported by the Driver tab on the Device Manager properties for the adapter lists the package date as 1/3/2008, version 8.442.3.0. PC-Doctor reports the video BIOS version as "BK-ATI VER009.012.001.020".

I performed a crash analysis on the minidumps that Windows was producing each time my machine crashed like this. Below is a portion of the analysis. I analyzed three dumps, two caused by Google Earth and one by Nero ShowTime. For all three, the fault was caused by ati2cqag.dll, which is part of the ATI Radeon driver set and is listed as the "Central Memory Manager / Queue Server Module". This particular file actually lists a different version number than the driver package (it claims file version 6.14.10.0359, product version 5.2.3790.1830). I enabled kernel memory dumping and I'll crash the system again so that I can do a more complete analysis, but I think this is fairly conclusive. The device driver is spinning in an infinite loop.

Debugging Details:
------------------

Version too small

FAULTING_THREAD: 884a68d0

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: GRAPHICS_DRIVER_FAULT

CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT: 1

BUGCHECK_STR: 0xEA

PROCESS_NAME: googleearth.exe

LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from bf0826f7 to bf07ad2c

STACK_TEXT:
a1fdb4c8 bf0826f7 99098000 b067d810 0000257f ati2cqag!RtlUnwind+0x156
a1fdb4cc 99098000 b067d810 0000257f e5e0a300 ati2cqag!aPM4_Microcode_R400+0x382f
WARNING: Frame IP not in any known module. Following frames may be wrong.
a1fdb4d0 b067d810 0000257f e5e0a300 e5dbdb60 0x99098000
a1fdb4d4 00000000 e5e0a300 e5dbdb60 e5dc9820 0xb067d810


STACK_COMMAND: .thread 0xffffffff884a68d0 ; kb

FOLLOWUP_IP:
ati2cqag!RtlUnwind+156
bf07ad2c 0f287870 movaps xmm7,xmmword ptr [eax+70h]

SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 0

SYMBOL_NAME: ati2cqag!RtlUnwind+156

FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner

MODULE_NAME: ati2cqag

IMAGE_NAME: ati2cqag.dll

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 477d1596

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0xEA_IMAGE_ati2cqag.dll_DATE_2008_01_03

BUCKET_ID: 0xEA_IMAGE_ati2cqag.dll_DATE_2008_01_03

Followup: MachineOwner
---------

Maybe I'm way off base. If anybody with this problem has more experience debugging Windows device drivers, please enable at least minidumps, then use the Win32 debug tools and symbols to analyze and post your results.

[procul]

Hi driftnet

Thank you for sharing your results and analysis.
'ATI Radeon driver set ... listed as the "Central Memory Manager / Queue Server Module" '. This analysis would seem to confirm that the problem is in video cache or video/system memory conflict. As this trouble didn't show up on my machine (XP Pro, SP3) until the Jan. 08 driver upgrade the trouble does not appear to be video hardware per se.

To any Lenovo rep reading this thread:
There seems to have been no report of this problem until after the ATI driver was updated in Jan '08.
Perhaps the previous version (8.362.0.0) could be made available in the Driver Matrix pages for the T60p. This would allow users who can't roll back the driver to 'upgrade' to the older, stable version.
Better yet, remove the latest driver altogether until this problem is addressed and resolved.


Update on my system: I thought I had rolled back the video driver when I uninstalled CCC, but checking the Device Manager (Control Panel / System / Hardware) driver list showed the current driver still installed.
I managed to find a system restore point before the Jan '08 update and successfully rolled back the ATI driver to version 8.362.0.0 using this method. (The problem with this method is that it rolls everything back.) For the moment, this rollback has cured the blank-screen freeze-up problem.

I'll be renistalling other rolled-back drivers over the next several days to see if any other update or program is causing a conflict, and will post my results.

procul

[driftnet]

I still have the installation package for the previous version of the drivers (8.362-070405a-046310C-Lenovo, dated June 5, 2007). I'm sorry I didn't mention this earlier procul, I might have saved you some time!

As soon as I can verify that I won't get sued for making them available (sorry, stranger things have happened), I'll provide a URL. Basically you'd just run the Lenovo installer to extract the drivers, then I guess uninstall the device completely (as opposed to rolling back), reboot and install the old set. I believe that there are some dependencies with Presentation Director etc. so exercise caution.

Again, provided everything's cool, I'll post a URL for anyone interested.

Description: http://www.johnblackmonjr.com/lnv/79d164ww.txt

Hashes (included in zip): http://www.johnblackmonjr.com/lnv/hashes.html

Package: http://www.johnblackmonjr.com/lnv/8.362 ... Lenovo.zip

Use at your own risk. :)

[procul]

Guarded good news, all:
Day Three using previous video drivers (version 8.362.0.0, pre-Jan 2008 update), and NO BLANK SCREEN, NO LOCK-UPS.

I've resintalled updated drivers for everything; have not reinstalled Power Management; neither CCC (which I think I'll leave in exile unless someone can explain to me why I actually need it).

I played half a dozen 1/2- to 1-hour programs (xvid, avi, mpeg) one after another without any trouble - and no flickering at edges in Media Player Classic.
I also successfully loaded a folder of large movie files in ACDSee browser which generates previews for each and played a few seconds of the various titles - this used to bugger it every time, no problem now (so far!).

I know it's early, only Day 3, but this is the longest I've gone without a black-screen freeze in months, so I highly recommend rolling back the video driver. Give it a try, or just keep your fingers crossed for me. Yeah the underside of the laptop still gets too hot, but no crashes...

Thank you, John, for the 8.3 installer! I stashed it away (and backed it up in nine different locations!). Have you tried a driver rollback on your T60?

I'm curious to know if anyone else has luck with the old driver.

[driftnet]

I installed the 8.362 drivers yesterday and I have not experienced any problems so far. I've been playing with Google Earth, watching movies, etc. and haven't had any problems. Time will tell I suppose but I am pretty confident that we have gotten a handle on this.

I always archive any drivers or software I get from Lenovo's site just in case. If y'all have any similar situations in the future, send me a message here and I'll check to see if I still have what you're looking for.

Glad to hear things seem to be looking up for you procul!

[procul]

I'm confident that I can now confirm Kaz's conclusion: the version 4.xx ATI drivers are responsible for the black-screen-of-death. I've put the machine through every kind of video torture test imaginable and am still freeze-free.

No thanks to Lenovo...!
But many thanks to everyone posting here in the forum.

Kaz if you're still checking this thread, did you ever reinstall the CCC?

[Kaz]

Procul, congratulations on resolving your issue. I am sure that it was a pain in the rear for you until you resolved it. To answer your question, I am still running without CCC and do not have intentions at this time to install it. I don't need any of the fancy tweaks and features that it provides.

I have been freeze free since 7/31/08 and am currently running with the following drivers:

i. Atheros driver 6.0.3.94 (6/26/07) for 11 a/b/g/n
Wireless Lan Mini-PCI Express Adapter- adapter setting
Max Power Save set to "None".

ii. older ATI Driver v. 8.293.1.0 (9/13/06)

iii. ATI CCC not installed

iv. Latest Thinkpad PM Device driver v. 1.44.0.0
(11/2/07).

v. Thinkpad Power Management Software, v 1.30b (v. 1.40 has
a bug with COM+ event warnings - see my 8/16/08 post)

Mark from Lenovo asked me to put together a summary of the testing I went through to reproduce the freeze. It was sent to him last week and he committed to performing some internal testing fairly quickly.

[kiranvanumati]

Hi members,

I have seen this thread earlier but didn't really go thru all responses and I am starting to face this issue frequently after Lenovo replaced my system board .After reading thru everything I get little confused to what Iam supposed to do to get rid of the problem.

Most of the times I see a black screen with wireless on & with fan fully on and sometimes I waited more than 10 minutes to shut down but it didn't happen.

If I try to hibernate or standby it happens.

If I try to restart from fully functional system black screen appears either during shut down cycle or during restart cycle.

From past couple days even my speakers go off.

I have to reboot it to get back sound.
I don't watch movies or youtube or play DVD's regularly (once or twice in week for about 5 to 10 minutes).

Can anybody suggest me what I am supposed to do.
1. Is it better to call lenovo for help or
2. To follow this thread for resolution.


Thanks
Kiran.

[procul]

Hi Kiran

It sounds like you have the classic symptoms I and everyone else here have experienced.

I can tell you that I "rolled bacK' the video driver - see my (& other's, including Kaz & driftnet's) posts above - after suffering with black-screen-of-death-during-video for 9 months... the freezeups began right when the ATI video driver was updated... and this has 100% CURED the trouble. After daily freezes (many times a day!) I haven't had a lock-up or blank screen in almost 2 weeks, and I've been puttting the machine through torture-tests.

If you can't roll-back the driver (control panel/ system / hardware / device manager/ display adapters / r. click "properties" / driver / "roll back driver") then use the links provided in driftnet's post above to d/l the prior driver installation package.

I'm sure that if you can switch to the earlier driver version your problems will be solved.

Let us know how it goes!

procul

[Pes5]

Dear all,

I just want to add my voice to pressing Lenovo to ACT! I have the same symptoms, with my T60 2007-FVG, Core 2 Duo 1.83GHz, 3GB RAM, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, 15 inch 1400 x 1050. I have had the system for about a year and I also do belive the problem is linked to ATI driver. It was in early 2008 I started to experience problems, or even by the end of 2007. I always have the latest version of all drivers and software installed. I think I will try to roll back the ATI driver, although I consider it strange that LENOVO would not help us somehow.
Thanks to all for all the testing, I did lot of that myself, but am too unorganized to list it properly.

Update 22 September
- managed to downgrade the ATI driver to 8.293.1.0 from 13. 9. 2006 using roll-back option .. since then, no blackout!

[kiranvanumati]

Hi All,

Thanks Procul for your advice. I tried to roll back the ATI driver but it couldn't solve my problem with Black screen.

From yesterday evening my touchpad stopped working.
I decided to backup my data and restore to factory settings as
frustration grew.

I am in the process of restoring.
Do I need to install Windows XP SP3?
I installed it once but black screen started showing very frequently and then I uninstalled immediately.

Please advice me on that.

Thanks
Kiran.

[Pes5]

Hi All,

Thanks Procul for your advice. I tried to roll back the ATI driver but it couldn't solve my problem with Black screen.

From yesterday evening my touchpad stopped working.
I decided to backup my data and restore to factory settings as
frustration grew.

I am in the process of restoring.
Do I need to install Windows XP SP3?
I installed it once but black screen started showing very frequently and then I uninstalled immediately.

Please advice me on that.

Thanks
Kiran.

To me, your problem is completely different. This thread is about the issue that occurs ONLY when playing video (including that inside web browsers...). I would hint you to call Lenovo, and get help from them.