Advice for a T41 with bad usb 2.0

[NobeyamaGP]

I have a T41 that recently stopped recognizing usb 2.0 devices. Since I'm running linux and have tried various live CD's as well as a complete reinstall of my OS, I know it's not an issue with the drivers like in XP like I've seen in various threads on this forum. This makes me believe it's hardware related and seems a lot likethis issue from thinkwiki. I'm leaning toward the fried southbridge being the culprit here since I've experienced all of the described symptoms.

Now, as I see it, I have two solutions, either find a replacement motherboard or get a PCMCIA USB 2.0 card and wait for the board to give out for real (However I've heard that most of these cards don't handle bus-powered harddrives very well, which is what I'd be using it for mostly).

Does anyone know what the best solution is? I really don"t have the money to replace the motherboard right now, but can if I have to.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

[sjthinkpader]

Does a powered device work? May be the power is out on these ports.

[sojourner]

I have a T41 that recently stopped recognizing usb 2.0 devices.

Now, as I see it, I have two solutions, either find a replacement motherboard or get a PCMCIA USB 2.0 card and wait for the board to give out for real (However I've heard that most of these cards don't handle bus-powered harddrives very well, which is what I'd be using it for mostly).

Does anyone know what the best solution is? Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Greetings NobeyamaGP, and welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your problem. It seems you've been hit by one of the two more common hardware troubles with these laptops. You asked ... what the 'best' solution is? I think a free MOBO, replaced for free with no inconvenience to you would be best, but wishful thinking aside, here's a possible help:

You said your need is primarily for "bus-powered harddrives". The concern being, a Cardbus adapter may not be able to power the drive(s). I understand the concern because I too use numerous external HDD's. Found something last week which may help if you use certain WD (Western Digital) drives. WD allows the user to impliment a builtin feature called RPS (Reduced Power Spinup). It is a feature designed to allow full power from one USB port (typically 500 ma.) to power the drive even for spinup! As you may know, spinup is the most power consuming period of time and many USB adapters seem to fall short of being able to provide this current. WD however has this optimization scheme whereby only a very short spike of high current is needed on the port at spinup, then a steady draw of current which one port can provide.

I tried implimenting RPS on two WD 320GB HDDs, and utilizing ONE (standard) v2 USB port all went well! Was pleasantly surprised. No more need for the pigtail cord with WD's HDDs if they are jumpered! This RPS feature would certainly be of help with a Cardbus adapter. (and hopefully you use WD HDDs)

Hope that can help.

[NobeyamaGP]

Does a powered device work? May be the power is out on these ports.

No dice. I tried a friend's powered WD 160GB drive as well. Same story.

[NobeyamaGP]

This RPS feature would certainly be of help with a Cardbus adapter. (and hopefully you use WD HDDs)

Sadly, the drive I use the most is a couple year old IOGEAR which is basically a Samsung laptop drive in an enclosure. This means the RPS feature won't really help me now, but it is an exciting feature if I ever decide to get a new drive. (And a new drive plus a cardbus card would cost less than a new mobo.)

But is the laptop still reliable even with this problem? It sounds to me, reading the thinkwiki page, that the mobo will eventually fail and that this is just an early symptom of that. Thanks for all the help.

[sjthinkpader]

When you set the TP on a dock, does the dock ports work?

[sojourner]

But is the laptop still reliable even with this problem? It sounds to me, reading the thinkwiki page, that the mobo will eventually fail and that this is just an early symptom of that.

Would like to be of help but I don't have enough information on this (USB) specific problem. Can offer this FWIW; as an electronics hobbiest I know most inexpensive microprocessors are VERY voltage sensitive, easily destroyed (by a static charge for example) BUT, the destruction of that specific circuit does not necessarily mean other components will fail as a result. Personally, if I was satisified with a Cardbus USB I wouldn't worry about a major failure later!

[no_man]

Recently had an X41, 2525-E2U, stop recognizing USB 2.0 devices, think it lost 2.0 and reverted to USB 1.1 long ago, caused by many upgrades.
This weekend I ran original IBM/Lenovo Recovery CDs, and, problem solved.
USB 2 now executes USB software in Hi-Speed mode, also, this total system Recovery eliminated other glitches which spawned over time from pesky 'updates'.

[NobeyamaGP]

When you set the TP on a dock, does the dock ports work?

Unfortunately, I don"t have access to a dock to test this.

[NobeyamaGP]

I was browsing newegg for cardbus cards and came across the D-Link DUB-C2 which has no power dongle, and according to the D-Link website this card can supply the full 500mA to each of its 2 ports. This seems better than some other cards I saw which could provide 500mA shared by all the ports on the card, but I'm still worried about whether this is enough power to let my drive spinup. Does anyone know if this could be a viable option? Thanks again.

[sojourner]

this card can supply the full 500mA to each of its 2 ports ... but I'm still worried about whether this is enough power to let my drive spinup. Does anyone know if this could be a viable option?

Without knowing power requirement specs for your particular drive it's hard to answer definitivly, but considering your drive now spins up off conventional ports (which provide 500 ma), figuring D-Link is honest with their Cardbus specs, I'd say you're good. The reason I say honest, the Cardbus USB2 + 1394 Firewire card here works fine for LOW current accessories but does not provide enough current for spinning up ANY HDD! I'd like to find a USB2 + Firewire Cardbus which DOES provide enough current from the bus (not a jumper) ... I'd buy it!

Hope you'll let us know how you make out!

[NobeyamaGP]

Ok, I went with a Koutech CBU-420 cardbus card from newegg. The card arrived today, but sadly won't power the drive even using both the drive's and the card's supplied auxiliary USB jumpers. It even takes the card's jumper being connected before my flash memory samsung mp3 player will work! So at this point I guess I'm either going to do without, or possibly look into finding an RPS capable drive like sojournar mentioned and see if that'll work. If not, at least I can get it to work in the onboard ports at 1.1 speeds, and I'll get a new hard drive in the process.

Thanks for the consult guys.

[sojourner]

Ok, I went with a Koutech CBU-420 cardbus card from newegg. The card arrived today, but sadly won't power the drive even using both the drive's and the card's supplied auxiliary USB jumpers. It even takes the card's jumper being connected before my flash memory samsung mp3 player will work!

Sorry to hear about the bad experience! You were going to buy the D-Link, may have been a better choice, here's why:

First a primer on Cardbus and USB
<http://www.hardwarebook.info/Universal_Serial_Bus_(USB)>
(sorry, this website will not accept the link as a valid url so copy the entire link minus arrows)

Specifically we need to deal with VOLTAGE and CURRENT needs of your HDD and that which is supplied by each interface. Built-in TP USB ports provide 5volts at 500ma. A USB HDD typically requires this 5v and TWO ports so it can grab up to 1000ma. (500 + 500) for spin-up. Of course after a USB HDD spins-up, typically 500 ma. supplied by ONE port will be enough for further operational needs.

The problem confronting manufacturers of Cardbus-USB adapters:
Cardbus typically has 3.3v on the bus. Because USB accessories require 5v a Cardbus-USB adapter manufacturer has to install electronics to UP USB port voltage and insure a certain amount of CURRENT also. Cheap adapters typically have cheap upconverters, expensive cards SHOULD have a better upconverter. You'll notice none of the pictures of the D-Link model show a power jack. Their specs show they provide 500ma. per port ... that's because they have an upconverter onboard to supply the power necessary for two 500ma USB accessories! They don't need a power cable. Problem with the D-Link though, I've seen numerous comments from unhappy customers; major complaint is their drivers!

So why didn't your HDD spin-up even after using the Cardbus adapter power cable? All you provided for CURRENT was the 500ma. available from one TP port! Your HDD needs more current.

Now if you were to go with a WD drive with RPS (and be SURE to install the jumper) it WILL work if you in fact have 5v @ 500ma available on the port. If you have a friend willing to loan one that would be great, then you could try it first!

A long message, hope it helps!

[NobeyamaGP]

Yeah, I'm considering returning the koutech card and getting the d-link when it comes back in stock, but I'm also wondering if it might be an issue with my drive as well. According to the product page for my drive, it supposedly requires 5V at 2.1A! I know someone who has a western digital drive, which I may try this weekend and see if my drive just has an unreasonable power requirement.

Also, I was using one adapter provided with the card plugged into an onboard usb port and another adapter I got for the drive plugged into the other onboard port, so if I'm not mistaken shouldn't that have provided the drive with the 1000mA available from both ports one way or another (500mA from the cardbus' adapter and 500mA from the onboard port directly to the drive itself)?

[sktn77a]

If you don't need portable USB functionality, get a used $15 port replicator II or $25 mini dock II off the marketplace. These should provide you with the functionality you need.

[NobeyamaGP]

If you don't need portable USB functionality, get a used $15 port replicator II or $25 mini dock II off the marketplace.

Actually, that's what I'm trying to avoid. If I wasn't looking for a more portable solution, I'd just get get an external hard drive with it's own AC power supply and be done with it.

[SteveS]

sktn77a wrote:

If you don't need portable USB functionality, get a used $15 port replicator II or $25 mini dock II off the marketplace.

Not really true with the Port Replicator II - as the name implies, this only wires the docking connector to extra connectors with no signal buffering provided. I can state from sad experience that shorting the power supply on the USB connector in Port Replicator II will destroy all of the USB ports in a T43!. On the other hand, Mini-Dock II contains a buffered USB hub, providing 4 downstream USB connectors which can supply 500 mA each.

Another misunderstanding stated above in the thread – a T4x USB port can output 500 mA. Not true! The USB specification states that ports need to be able to supply up to 500 mA each, however this is not required for notebook computers and other battery operated devices (due to the unreasonable power consumption from the battery). The specification does not stipulate how low the power can go in a battery operated device. Nor does it require the vendor to specify this to the user.

My trusty 2.5” Addonics external USB drive operates fine with only the USB connector when connected to my desktop PC. But it always requires the external power supply when I use it a T4x series.

[Dead1nside]

I'm afraid I've just today found out I've got the same problem on my T41p. Windows says it's only got 1.1 USB ports when I plug in my pen drive. On Linux it says the same. So it cannot just be purely a driver problem can it?

Can anyone recommend a PCMCIA USB HUB card, preferablly a low-rise one with 2 ports that will work out of the box on Linux per chance? I'd go with the D-Link one suggested but haven't heard anything regarding Linux compatibility.

I hope this isn't indicative of my T41p being about to roll over and die.

Thank-you.

[poshgeordie]

Just to check the status of your USB ports in Linux, can you see if the output of

Code: Select all

lsusb

gives something like

Code: Select all

Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000  
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000  
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000  

Can you also post the output of

Code: Select all

lspci

which amongst all the list of hardware gives for me an output of

Code: Select all

00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801CA/CAM USB Controller #1 (rev 02)
00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801CA/CAM USB Controller #2 (rev 02)
00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801CA/CAM USB Controller #3 (rev 02)

I don't know Arch Linux, but I use ubuntu and hopefully the terminal commands will be similar.

This will give some indication of the state of the hardware and whether it's being recognised at some level.

[rbena]

Sorry to hear about your problem. It seems you've been hit by one of the two more common hardware troubles with these laptops.

Yes, this seems to be appearing enough for a Sticky to be created. While it may not be as straightforward as the GPU issue, a summary of information to date would be very useful.

[Dead1nside]

I think this should be made a sticky, because I had no idea this was an issue until it arose.

poshgeordie: I've checked under /var/log/messages and it is flooded by trying to initalize the usb device that I plug in. Eventually it says the same thing as on Windows, that the device is a USB2 device and needs to be plugged into a USB2 port. Thank-you for trying to help though, but I think the fact that both Windows and Linux say that it's broken means it must be a hardware issue.

[sojourner]

Dead1nside, just a long shot; have you tried REinstalling the Intel MOBO chipset drivers? I read in one of the threads it brought back 1.1 ports to v2. And if you are really desperate, perhaps set BIOS to default settings before reinstalling chipset drivers. It's worked for at least one person here!

[Dead1nside]

Thank-you, I'll give those two things a shot.

I've been looking for PCMCIA USB 2 cards, but the reviews are mixed certainly indeed. Again, if anyone has any recommendations, especially with regards to Linux support and using power consuming devices I'd love to here them.

[rbena]

I think this should be made a sticky, because I had no idea this was an issue until it arose.

Moderator - can we please have a Sticky for the USB2 issue on the T4x series.

I've not had the GPU problem, but I too have experienced the USB2 issue on a T42, which was solved with a new motherboard. Thank you.