ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 performance

Message

MadCap · #91 Post by **MadCap** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:12 pm

This is standard for most thinkpad models because of corporate use. The accesories is almost universal across same form factor (eg. 15,4").

manecas · #92 Post by **manecas** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:18 pm

In the review, I read that the ultrabay that comes with the CDRW or with the bluray can be fitted with a second HD (like the t61p) and in the topic I started - "T61p vs w500 for an architect" - Marin85 wrote that the w500 would be prepared for RAID, which would be a significative performance increase in many of the aplications I use (when Autocad decides to make an autosave on a heavy file, my laptop goes numb for some minutes...). I wanted to confirm this.

What about your word of advice, do you think the 8530w will be better than the w500 (without the roll cage, of course)? will they be fitted with the current generation of Nvidia Quadros or is something else coming along?

And that new series of ATI firegl based on the latest radeon series, do you think it will take very long to appear in laptops?

Thx

MadCap · #93 Post by **MadCap** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:37 pm

I dont know anything about the raid support - this is good question for someone in Lenovo, but I think it would not be possible because the ultrabay slot is by definition not built in and disconnection while ussing RAID0 would be fattal - too big risc.
Any predictions about yet unavailable and unspecified notebook is pure magic - wait for a few weeks and everything would be more clear. If you need to buy NOW, there is yours T61p

Marin85 · #94 Post by **Marin85** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:07 pm

@manecas: The thing about RAID was a mistake of mine and as far as I can remember I was corrected by erik. What I read about RAID support in W series, was actually referring to W700 and is hence just a speculation. W500 does not support hardware RAID even though you have the option to swap the CD/DVD for a second HDD. I apologize if I have confused you.

Cheers

Marin

manecas · #95 Post by **manecas** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:21 pm

@Marin85

Erik replied that only RAID 1 or 0 would be possible (because the w500 is limited to 2 HD) so I thought it could still be possible. My bad

As I never used Lenovo, I would like to know if the anyone reading this uses or knows some info about the advanced dock that can be used with this laptop. Is it the same as the t61p? And can the extra HD be used to have hardware based RAID 0 or 1?

@Madcap

Do you have screen shots comparing it with the dell to see the increase in brightness from the t61p?

The risk of disconnection is a very small problem comparing with the possible performance gain that would be available. A simple solution would be to turn the ultrabay switching operation a little bit "less easy", like using a small screw to lock it in position (this is just my humble opinion, from someone who uses laptops for work and knows little about how they work).

I'm starting to think I'll have to make my omnibook last some more painful months until Quadcores and the next generation of GPU and RAIDable HD comes to play... maybe in hp or dell, or in the w501 or w700

Marin85 · #96 Post by **Marin85** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:32 pm

By now, there is no ThinkPad that supports hardware based RAID with the second HD in the ultrabay. This is due to the absence of an internal RAID controller. However, it´s possible to connect a ThinkPad to an eSATA RAID systems using the ExpressCard slot and theoretically it´s even possible to boot from such a device (using a registry hack in XP and probably also in Vista), but then you actually get a desktop machine and not a laptop

As to RAIDs in notebooks, DELL XPS, Alienware, Eurocom and probably some other the like offer RAID solutions in notebooks (so called Fake RAID as well as true Hardware RAID).
FYI, the risk of disconnecting the second drive is the main reason why XP and Vista don´t support software RAID on laptops (which is actually a pity, but understandable). Probably there is some "hack" to enable converting to dynamic disks option in Windows on notebooks (which is a prerequisite for setting up software based RAID), but none that I´m aware of

There was such "hack" with Windows 2000, but unfortunately it doesn´t work with XP or older. My personal opinion is that software based RAID won´t be such a bad option in laptops since it´s not going to eat the cpu (at least it doesn´t with some old desktop amd cpus)

, nor the performance increase would be that negligible (again, at least on old amd desktops

). Apart from Windows, there is another option: AFAIK, Linux doesn´t have this kind of limitation of Windows. So, theoretically, one could install Linux in a software RAID configuration from an external device on a ThinkPad with a second HD in the ultrabay, then one could install some virtual machine of Windows and so you get Windows OS running in a software RAID

But I guess the performance gain in such a setup would be pretty questionable

This is actually what I´m about to find out....

Just my 2 cents

Marin

Asphalt · #97 Post by **Asphalt** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:53 pm

I don't know the true reasons behind Lenovo switching from from the Nvidia FX570M on the T61p to the ATI V5700 on the W500, but perhaps part of the answer is due to display stability issues that many T61p users were having with the FX570M when using both memory slots.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... x570m+t61p

Apparently Lenovo was not the only manufacturer having issues with Nvida. Dell said the problem was

a weak die / packaging material set, which may fail with GPU temperature fluctuations

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/26/dell ... s-to-help/

So perhaps Lenovo's decision will result in a much more stable and useable workstation, even if its GPU specs are not significantly faster.

manecas · #98 Post by **manecas** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:14 pm

Hum...

After a few days of talk and a crash course about how computers work I think I am more confused than ever (ignorance is beautiful...).

When I landed in this forum (coming from a world where a laptop is just an expensive and noisy pencil) I was convinced Lenovo was The True Best Thing in laptops but I am learning it has the same flaws as every other one, but with a better armour (it is so tough that if I am in a car crash, while multitasking - driving and working (maybe the cause of the crash), my laptop has more chances to survive than me, and my family and friends can still uncover my deepest darkest secrets, and my boss can recover the work to give it to my replacement without delays)

Each day I learn more and more things a 15.4" laptop cannot do (mainly thanks to your help and education), some due to lack of space (like fitting a Nvidia Quadro fx3600m) and some due to misterious reasons (like having hardware RAID).

Even after one extensive review of the newer GPU (the ATI one) and many questions, I am still puzzled if it is worse, simillar or better than the previous one (the NVIDIA one).

I believe I will return to hand drawing, like in the first two years of architecture school

#99 Post by **erik** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:18 pm

Asphalt wrote:I don't know the true reasons behind Lenovo switching from from the Nvidia FX570M on the T61p to the ATI V5700 on the W500...

it's because ATI supports displayport and nvidia currently does not. lenovo's problem with the T61p was due to lenovo's own manufaturing tolerances on the T61p system planar, not nvidia's GPU.

http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/mess ... 217#M12217

MadCap · #100 Post by **MadCap** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:03 am

What increase? It hase exactly the same display as T61p ....

Kel Ghu · #101 Post by **Kel Ghu** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:40 am

I was right then... Sigh... No upgrade for me...

Unless it has great overclocking capabilities, which I highly doubt...

Thank you MadCap.

arlab · #102 Post by **arlab** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:43 pm

MadCap wrote:What increase? It hase exactly the same display as T61p ....

In the spreadsheat, it is written that the W500 display is better. Probably a bit more brighter.

Pascal_TTH · #103 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:31 am

erik wrote: it's because ATI supports displayport and nvidia currently does not. lenovo's problem with the T61p was due to lenovo's own manufaturing tolerances on the T61p system planar, not nvidia's GPU.

Not true ! All GeForce 9 mobile support Display port.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9650m_gs.html (see Features)

Dedicated Display Interfaces for Every Display
Direct output from GeForce to notebook LCD, HDMI displays, DisplayPort displays, and standard VGA monitors allow you to do your work, play games, or watch movies wherever you like.

manecas · #104 Post by **manecas** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:35 pm

I found this:

http://www.techsupport.cz/clanok/172/hp ... ticle.html

about the new models at HP (8530 p and w and 8730w) and it says that they will be hardware RAID capable (0 and 1) with the ultrabay (as I wished the w500 would be). It also said it would come with Nvidia GPU.

There was a lot I could't understand because the translation i got was very bad, so I would kindly ask MadCap to help with the rest of the information.

For what I have read up to now, I'm leaning towards waiting for the w700 and the new HP models...

what do you think?

manecas · #105 Post by **manecas** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:37 pm

I also read they would be available between September and October (elsewhere I had read October-November).

Marin85 · #106 Post by **Marin85** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:45 am

Hmm, W700 is probably going to be a 17'' model. It´s supposed to have 2 internal drives (probably hardware RAID-capable) apart from the ultrabay device, so one could have his RAID and CD/DVD

I´v also read that the W700 is going to have a Quad Core, so I don´t expect a soon release of it (unlike W500), but the Quad Core edion could be also a second generation of W700s.

Cheers

Marin

EDIT: I guess we will have to wait a bit to learn the exact specs of W700. What we know for now is anyway quite surprising.

#107 Post by **erik** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:04 am

Pascal_TTH wrote:Not true ! All GeForce 9 mobile support Display port.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9650m_gs.html (see Features)

ok, i'll be more specific... the quadro FX currently does not offer displayport support. we're talking about workstation GPUs, after all.

Pascal_TTH · #108 Post by **Pascal_TTH** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:10 pm

I agree !

manecas · #109 Post by **manecas** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:27 pm

The new models are on the Lenovo site and the t61p is not there anymore.

The price is a bit higher than I expected, but in stores should be a bit different...

I think it is still being set up because configurations are not yet available.

Pocket Aces · #110 Post by **Pocket Aces** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:04 am

It doesn't seem like any sales apply yet, so right now you're paying full price.

blackomegax · #111 Post by **blackomegax** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:11 pm

if you go to lenovo.com, then the w series page and hit 'features'

you'll see this
http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/con ... 72x163.jpg

So if it cant switch, it's false advertising.

manecas · #112 Post by **manecas** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:34 pm

In the foruns that are talking about the next generation workstations from HP (8530p and w and 8730w) some of the participants are saying that all those models will be hardware RAID capable via the aditional HD that can go on the Ultrabay (I wish Lenovo had remembered to include this...), making the 15.4" capable of RAID 0 and 1 and the 17" also capable of RAID 3, 4 and 5. This is a decisive feature for me...

COME ON LENOVO!

kai920 · #113 Post by **kai920** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:55 pm

Marin85 wrote:I hope TP W700 will do even better than FireGL V5700 I mean there is a plenty of powerful graphic cards that would fit in a 17'' machine.

The W700 will have NVIDIA Quadro FX 2700M, with 512MB according to my source...

manecas · #114 Post by **manecas** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:43 pm

I was told by a Lenovo support staff guy that it would have the Nvidia Quadro FX3700M ith 1GB memory, but I believe some less powerful GPU should be available for entry level price, and it should be the FX2700M with 512MB. Both are the same that will be featured on the HP 8730W.[/u]

MadCap · #115 Post by **MadCap** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:43 am

About the new HP workstation models - http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press ... tions.html

Kel Ghu · #116 Post by **Kel Ghu** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:42 pm

They can have ATI Mobility FireGL V5725 with 256 MB of video memory. That is probably a bit better than V5700

NaT · #117 Post by **NaT** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:28 pm

Does anyone has info/link on how ATI FirePro V5700 512M perform or benchmark compares to nVidia FireGL 770 512M?

HP (and Dell workstation 15.4" model) are offering nVidia FireGL770 512M as higher-end option and offering FirePro V5700 256M as lower-end option.

imnotahippie · #118 Post by **imnotahippie** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:12 am

manecas wrote: Hum...

After a few days of talk and a crash course about how computers work I think I am more confused than ever (ignorance is beautiful...).

When I landed in this forum (coming from a world where a laptop is just an expensive and noisy pencil) I was convinced Lenovo was The True Best Thing in laptops but I am learning it has the same flaws as every other one, but with a better armour (it is so tough that if I am in a car crash, while multitasking - driving and working (maybe the cause of the crash), my laptop has more chances to survive than me, and my family and friends can still uncover my deepest darkest secrets, and my boss can recover the work to give it to my replacement without delays)

Each day I learn more and more things a 15.4" laptop cannot do (mainly thanks to your help and education), some due to lack of space (like fitting a Nvidia Quadro fx3600m) and some due to misterious reasons (like having hardware RAID).

Even after one extensive review of the newer GPU (the ATI one) and many questions, I am still puzzled if it is worse, simillar or better than the previous one (the NVIDIA one).

I believe I will return to hand drawing, like in the first two years of architecture school

the one thing i have learned myself about thinkpads verses all other note books are the simple little differences. how most notebooks ext. HP or DELL you can only use the OS that comes with it. and on thinkpads you can install XP, server 2003, linux, unix, or vista. and the keyboard lay out is vary nice. the best ive ever used. you have the ultra bay ability's such as i can use the floppy disk from a t40 in my t61p, and since i travel a lot i have an extra battery for my ultra bay but the main thing i have it my main thinkpad(t651p) is a pair of 320GB hard drives.

ever since i got my first thinkpad. about 2 years ago off of ebay an r51 i droped it 4 times. dumped water on it once. and i was installing an antenna on a roof and ran POE backwords strait into the ethernet port, put out a huge amount of smoke but it still worked after that. then i about my wife a t42p and myself a t61p. been hooked in thinkpads ever since. infact all my friends own them too.

anyways back to the subject. sucks they used an ati in the W500 the main thing i liked about my t61p was how well it over clocked and with out any porblems (i pulled 12,000 score on 3dmarks 05). that and the lovly hacked drivers you can get for nvidia cards but i can't find any for ati. and yes the w700 dose have an nvidia card but the laptop is just too big.. i love the power options for it but the size makes me turn away from it.

thats why to me thinkpads are better then all other laptops.

ewave · #119 Post by **ewave** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:24 pm

lenovo has just recently upped the anny on it's motherboards
for its laptops. In addition to a fairly decent graphics card, you get
ddr3 ram for laptop memory giving you that extra push.

HP & Dell still offer ddr2 ram with their laptop's mobo's .

the only real good deal out there other than lenovo from a third party is gateway's 7811fx from best buy ....sports a nvidia 9800gt
with 4 gigs of ddr3 (although only 800 mhz) of ram and an intel centrino2 processor)

Richard · #120 Post by **Richard** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:28 pm

I got our W500s - 3 of them and to our chagrin Lenovo substituted the Radeon HD 3650 for the GL cards. (I counld have bought T500s and saved $). I will say the screens are far brighter than the 60p units. We are awaiting a call back from their "executive support team" since last Thursday for some form of resolution. We run external monitors and the only way to get them to work correctly is to in Bios turn off the internal graphics chipset. We are also running Vista 64 and so far they are significantly faster than 42 and 60p units which ran XP and Vista 32

ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 performance

Switch to ATI because of Nvidia stability issues?

Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum

Re: Switch to ATI because of Nvidia stability issues?

Re: Switch to ATI because of Nvidia stability issues?

Re: Switch to ATI because of Nvidia stability issues?

Re: Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum

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