**Important** Sign the T43 HD Firmware Petition

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#61 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:57 am

Now up to 85 signatures...you do the math

citizenNB · #62 Post by **citizenNB** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:20 pm

Hi,

Harryc wrote:Now up to 85 signatures...you do the math

12! Guess why! You've got a pm.

citizenNB

Mornsgrans · #63 Post by **Mornsgrans** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:29 pm

Yes - the maths - HarryC, now 86

Greetings

madkat · #64 Post by **madkat** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:16 am

citizenNB · #65 Post by **citizenNB** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:52 pm

Hi Harry,

what's the current state?

citizenNB

#66 Post by **Harryc** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:03 pm

We're up to 94 names...almost there.

Beaver · #67 Post by **Beaver** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:47 pm

Why exactly 100 ?

#68 Post by **Harryc** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:59 pm

Why attempt the summit on Everest ?

Beaver · #69 Post by **Beaver** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:00 pm

I was wondering if there is some rule that petition with less than 100 signatures is not accepted by Lenovo

#70 Post by **Harryc** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:16 pm

No rules exist, it was just a number drawn out of thin air.

tmt777 · #71 Post by **tmt777** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:03 am

95 .... sent you a pm!

Thank you for this petition!

#72 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:02 pm

Now at 98 names.

jamiphar · #73 Post by **jamiphar** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:09 pm

PM sent!

#74 Post by **Harryc** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:41 pm

We now have over 100 names on the petition. I have established a starting point with regard to a Lenovo contact to send the petition to. Before drafting the actual petition, I want to list the bullet points that have come up in this thread to make sure that I don't miss anything. Please take a look at these points (below) and let me know ...

1.) Ask Lenovo to research and producing firmware updates for more than the current supported list of drives.
2.) As a starting point, ask Lenovo to provide firmware updates for all models of Hitachi 2.5" IDE laptop hard drives.
3.) Ask Lenovo engineers to look into the feasibility of eliminating the check in BIOS for compatible hard drives, and to eliminate the incompatibility (2010) message.
4.) Point out that there is a huge customer base out there currently unable to upgrade their T43 hard drives, and that any or all of the above actions would facilitate continuing customer brand loyalty.

citizenNB · #75 Post by **citizenNB** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:31 pm

Hi Harry,

I just want to add one notion for point 4). There are also customers with R53, X41 and X41 Tablet out there currently unable to upgrade their ThinkPads.

citizenNB

#76 Post by **Harryc** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:03 pm

citizenNB, I agree with adding R52 to the list, but the X4X problem is not firmware related, but rather a hardware limitation. We definitely do not want to ask Lenovo for the world with this petition, because if we do there is a greater likelihood for failure.

Mornsgrans · #77 Post by **Mornsgrans** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:46 am

Hello Harryc:

5.) Offering the BIOS-update above via Thinkvantage SystemUpdate, if possible or the Message Center.

.

#78 Post by **Harryc** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:53 am

Mornsgrans, good idea, we'll add it. To everyone else reading this thread, any other comments?

SGD · #79 Post by **SGD** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:17 am

Harryc wrote: 1.) Ask Lenovo to research and producing firmware updates for more than the current supported list of drives.
2.) As a starting point, ask Lenovo to provide firmware updates for all models of Hitachi 2.5" IDE laptop hard drives.
3.) Ask Lenovo engineers to look into the feasibility of eliminating the check in BIOS for compatible hard drives, and to eliminate the incompatibility (2010) message.
4.) Point out that there is a huge customer base out there currently unable to upgrade their T43 hard drives, and that any or all of the above actions would facilitate continuing customer brand loyalty.

***

To everyone else reading this thread, any other comments?

I have an impression that #1 and #2 is too much to ask of Lenovo. To do that they need to cooperate with (now) another company to get firmware source code, etc.

Thus I think that our best bet is 3. However, I do not think they agree to #3 as it is formulated now. I guess they do not agree to remove the 2010 check entirely. This is a matter of responsibility for the incident when the T43 mulfunctions due to the problem with HDD. There was a suggestion to remove the check for laptops out of warranty. This is technically impossible - will need an online connection to the Lenovo's DB.

However, lets look at how the things were going:

a) Impossible to start with non-approved HDD.

b) An option in the BIOS to by-pass the check. Displays a warning message but allows to contiue after a key is pressed.

c) An option in the BIOS to automatically by-pass the check. Displays a warning but continue automatically in a few seconds.

I think the key issue here is that the user should be warned that the HDD may have problems, and the user agrees to take responsibility for consequences.

Definitely, Lenovo wants the user to take this responsibility. Also, the users (i.e., ourselves) agree to take this responsibility.

The only thing we do not want is to confirm this decision on every boot. One confirmation should be enough. Thus, the next logical step should be

d) Displays a warning about incompatible HDD only once for a particular HDD.

Thus I suggest that in #3 we ask Lenovo to introduce a new BIOS option. The BIOS should be able to remember that the user have once confirmed that a particular drive model/drive serial number is OK, and does not warn about that same drive again.

Also, there should be an option to clear the list of "allowed" drives.

I hope this option is quite easy to implement.

Beaver · #80 Post by **Beaver** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:16 pm

SGD wrote:There was a suggestion to remove the check for laptops out of warranty. This is technically impossible - will need an online connection to the Lenovo's DB.

It's possible and very simple - I suggested this BIOS update to be released as an optional package with clear warning information, that it's possible to use it only after the warranty (or your existing warranty will be void when used). There is no need to check against some online DB, installing ANY-HDD-ENABLED-BIOS will be under customer's responsibility.

Jay A whY · #81 Post by **Jay A whY** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:12 pm

I'm in!..

cegan09 · #82 Post by **cegan09** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:25 pm

Haven't been here for a while, but sounds good. that error message is getting really annoying. PM on the way

HDRW · #83 Post by **HDRW** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:11 am

PM sent!

I have a recently-acquired T42, and haven't tried putting a larger drive in it yet - does anyone know if I will have the problem in question, or was it introduced in the T43?

Nobody seems to have said that the reason for limiting the drives that can be used could be a purely marketing issue - you have to buy the drives from them, and once you need to go larger than they will sell you, you need to get a new machine. It may simply be a ploy to drive up sales! (This ignores the fact that users may be so upset by this that they go elsewhere, so losing all future sales - but they may not see that!).

Cheers,
Howard

#84 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:42 am

T42's are not subject to the same problem with Hard drive firmware dependancies. Your 'marketing issue' argument would hold water if this problem effected more than one model of Thinkpad. Why would (IBM at the time) create this alleged forced upgrade situation on just one model? It does not make sense. There is a technical reason why certain drives/firmware are certified to work on this machine, and my opinion is that it has to do with reliability/data integrity considerations with drives tied into the hybrid SATA bridge in the T43's and R52's.

#85 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:11 am

We are at 112 names. Effective immediately I am no longer taking requests to be added to the petition. I will post a final draft shortly.

#86 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:29 am

This is a final draft of the petition. I will submit it tomorrow. You have 24 hours to respond with corrections or change requests,
Thank-you

Code: Select all

To whom it may concern, 
 The undersigned have formed this petition to Lenovo in the sincere hope that our simple requests will be looked at in a timely and serious manner. Lenovo has a fiercely loyal customer base, and we've had to live with a problem associated with upgrading T43 and R52 hard drives to modern standards/capacity. Specifically, that problem is a BIOS warning message and a 2010 error on every boot with a non-approved hard drive installed. We'd like Lenovo to look into the following concerns and report status back within (1) month's time. 

1.) Look into producing firmware updates for more than the current supported list of drives. The majority of T43/R52 owners use Hitachi 2.5" IDE laptop hard drives. Recent Hitachi models would be a reasonable starting point. 
2.) Look into the feasibility of eliminating the check in BIOS for compatible hard drives, and to eliminate the incompatibility (2010) message. 
3.) Look into a BIOS update to be released as an optional package with clear warning information, that it's possible to use it only after the warranty (or your existing warranty will be void when used). This updated post-warranty BIOS would not throw a 2010 error on boot.
4.) Look into displaying a BIOS warning about incompatible HDD only once for a particular HDD, after which point the machines will boot normaly and error free. 
5.) Offering the BIOS-update above via Thinkvantage SystemUpdate. 

I think I speak for the majority of the undersigned when I say that if point (1) is not feasibile, the preference would be to implement points (2), (3), (4), (5), or all of them.
Thank you for taking our concerns seriously, and we anxiously await your reply.
Sincerely,
(Insert Petition Signatures Here)

citizenNB · #87 Post by **citizenNB** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:38 am

Hi Harry,

What's with point 5.) Mornsgrans notes?

citizenNB

#88 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:11 am

citizenNB wrote:Hi Harry,

What's with point 5.) Mornsgrans notes?

citizenNB

Added ...

killer · #89 Post by **killer** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:41 am

Harry,

May I suggest you remove the hyphen from "Thank-you" in the closing part of your letter so that it reads, "Thank you".

I know it is a minor point and I might appear picky, however it is probably best for the letter to be perfect.

#90 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:54 am

Noted, thank you. Any other comments?

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