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Puppy · #31 Post by **Puppy** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:28 pm

Just small correction, the new it is not plastic (I couldn't retreive the picture from NBR forums) but metal with a lot of holes.

wswartzendruber · #32 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:16 pm

own6volvos wrote:There are a TON of things in the T400 and T500 that you can see were done to cut down on weight. Some of these items cost more to machine into the design, so it isnt just cost savings.

The T500 weighs a lot. It weighs more then my T60 with IPS FlexView. Lenovo probably saw this and did everything they could to drop the weight down in design. The newer keyboard ends up being 25% lighter than the previous model (1.5oz less).

Now this is something Lenovo can correct if enough people complain about it, as the older keyboards still work, and look identical. I swapped the one from my T60 to test this. If they dont fix it, I figure I will be stocking up on a few new-old-stock keyboards off ebay.

They didn't cut back too much on the magnesium, did they?

EDIT: After looking at the hardware maintenance manual, there's a big plate of magnesium under the right side of the keyboard (covers UltraBay). It's the left side that doesn't have as much (the chipset and WWAN). So, is this play you're talking about the kind where it gives a little bit and suddenly stops, or the kind where it gives with stress? Also, if I push the plastic flap in on my T60 (Cardbus/ExpressCard), then the palmrest gives with stress as well.

Thanks for answering our questions.

EDIT: I would be VERY appreciative of a photo of the machine with the palmrest and keyboard removed, although I'm not going to be the least bit irritated if you don't go through with it.

#33 Post by **archer6** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:44 pm

Puppy wrote:It looks way too much thick, don't you think ? Still has those cheap looking audio control buttons. Center-off display again.

I'm with you..... the off center display is a deal breaker for me. I would have to look at it every time I use the computer.....GRRRRR As far as thick is concerned.... strike two. And although I don't like them, I could probably live with the buttons.

Looks like my pre-lenovo backup plan worked, thankfully I stocked up on all my favorite 60 series models (and some spare parts) ....

own6volvos · #34 Post by **own6volvos** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:47 pm

wswartzendruber wrote:
own6volvos wrote:Note from Moderator: Excessive, nested quoting snipped.

I took pictures today of the open areas between the T60 and the T500 (or was that the T400, lol) that will be in my full review.

Basically the newer design looks like swiss cheese, where the old one is a solid uncut slab. Some of it flexes more than the old one, but other areas that are cutout are reinforced with ribs. One area is the plate above the HD on the right side of the palmrest, which uses less material on the newer version, but is much stiffer.

wswartzendruber · #35 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:34 am

own6volvos wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:

I think that actually started with the T61. Like this?

Puppy · #36 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:38 am

own6volvos wrote:I took pictures today of the open areas between the T60 and the T500 (or was that the T400, lol) that will be in my full review.

Could you please take pictures of the display, especially black color under various viewing angles to see the amount of backlight bleeding ? The best would be to compare it side by side with a T60 IPS

Something like Screen section in this review http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2864 (in particular this picture http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/10870.jpg ) I guess new Lenovo T will play the Dell part here

own6volvos · #37 Post by **own6volvos** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:54 pm

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=288338

Comparison between the LEd backlit T400 and the IPS T60.

holy hell it is BRIGHT

Puppy · #38 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:35 am

own6volvos wrote:Comparison between the LEd backlit T400 and the IPS T60.

I hope there is good range of brightness settings. Cheap displays are typically overbrighted that you can not set the luminance under 30cd -> useless in dark environment.

Yes, it is horrible crap comparing T60. Unfortunately there is no picture of black color which I suppose would be a disaster.

own6volvos · #39 Post by **own6volvos** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:23 am

It has double the settings of my T60, and the lowest mark is dimmer than the IPS screen for nice dark viewing.

own6volvos · #40 Post by **own6volvos** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:16 am

Just added some T400 vs T500 shots to that post for those interested.

Puppy · #41 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:02 am

Thanks, at least one good thing with the brightness settings. The T500 display is a bit better. Could you please add those black color screen pictures as well ?

TheVelho · #42 Post by **TheVelho** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:36 am

Let's just buy a brand new thinkpad and customize it with this : http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0254453106

oghowie · #43 Post by **oghowie** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:18 am

t500 review is up: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4565

#44 Post by **archer6** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:55 am

own6volvos wrote:Just added some T400 vs T500 shots to that post for those interested.

Thanks for the excellent work you do......

own6volvos · #45 Post by **own6volvos** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:51 pm

I think I have fallen in love with the T400. Main 9 cell battery test on integrated graphics side of the hybrid switching was 9 hours and 41 minutes till it hit 4% and went into hibernation. Would have hit a bit over 10 hours if I let it stay on.

wswartzendruber · #46 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:21 pm

own6volvos wrote:I think I have fallen in love with the T400. Main 9 cell battery test on integrated graphics side of the hybrid switching was 9 hours and 41 minutes till it hit 4% and went into hibernation. Would have hit a bit over 10 hours if I let it stay on.

Okay so needless to say it's a very good machine and we can look forward to it.

oghowie · #47 Post by **oghowie** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:37 am

own6volvos wrote:I think I have fallen in love with the T400. Main 9 cell battery test on integrated graphics side of the hybrid switching was 9 hours and 41 minutes till it hit 4% and went into hibernation. Would have hit a bit over 10 hours if I let it stay on.

Definitely waiting for the t400 review.

It's either that or a new MBP. haha

Kalamadea · #48 Post by **Kalamadea** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:11 am

I finally decided that I'm going to just take the plunge on the T400. I was entirely sold except I wanted to make extra-sure about the screen being bright enough to view outside. This'll be my first laptop, so I've struggled a bit on the learning curve, but I finally realized that - hey, if it's brighter than even the legendary IPS flexview, it's gotta be pretty much good enough for anything.

Anyway, thank you Kevin (own6volvos) for those pictures, as well as your First Look review. You've helped me a whole lot in this decision. And I look forward to reading the full review, as well.

MGT · #49 Post by **MGT** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:54 am

Kalamadea wrote:I finally decided that I'm going to just take the plunge on the T400. I was entirely sold except I wanted to make extra-sure about the screen being bright enough to view outside. This'll be my first laptop, so I've struggled a bit on the learning curve, but I finally realized that - hey, if it's brighter than even the legendary IPS flexview, it's gotta be pretty much good enough for anything.

Well the Flexview's reputation didn't really hinge on its brightness. I've seen quite a few mainstream consumer Inspirons, HP Pavilions and the like have brighter screens than the Flexviews, but that didn't stop me loving the IPS.

#50 Post by **archer6** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:28 am

oghowie wrote:Definitely waiting for the t400 review.

It's either that or a new MBP. haha

I wouldn't wish an MBP on my worst enemy...... from personal hands on experience just 45 days ago. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing Apple, as I've owned many new PowerBooks, MacBook, iPods, iPhone 3G, iTouch, etc. Briefly here is my recent experience:

1) Go to Apple store, write check for MBP, take it home (WiFi) only to find that it will not hold it's "airport connection" for more than 20 minutes only to drop out and never connect again until sitting over night, then the same 20 min issue. Take it to work (WiFi) same problem. Take it to Starbucks (WiFi) same issue.
2) Call Apple: "known problem" take it back the store will replace it.
3) Return to store: "never heard of it", but here's a new one.
4) Re-Read steps 1 thru 3 four times.... yes FOUR.

End of story, Apple store takes the 5th new MBP back from me and does NOT charge the 10% restocking fee as their wonderful MBP will NOT operate as advertised. My out of pocket expense? Hours of wasted time, trying to believe in Apple, give them an opportunity to make it right by trying 5 yes FIVE brand new sealed box MBP's. Simply mind boggling.... Finally it was only going to be a secondary laptop for fun anyway, some fun eh?

ThinkPads Forever........

Kalamadea · #51 Post by **Kalamadea** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:13 pm

Wow, what a story...

#52 Post by **archer6** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:15 pm

Kalamadea wrote:Wow, what a story...

Yes it was quite an experience that's for sure.

Congratulations on your new ThinkPad order! You are going to love the T400. I have a friend that just got his (he works for Lenovo) and it's amazing. I had an opportunity to use it last night and in typical fashion it was every bit as good as any ThinkPad I've had to date. A great new model....

Cheers!

own6volvos · #53 Post by **own6volvos** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:37 pm

Here are the sunlight/shade pictures of the T400 outside at max brightness. I know some of you were asking about that

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthr ... ost3821865

SHoTTa35 · #54 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:50 pm

aww man, i seriously gotta register i guess

I wanna see those outdoor pics.

#55 Post by **archer6** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:44 pm

own6volvos wrote:Here are the sunlight/shade pictures of the T400 outside at max brightness. I know some of you were asking about that

Why is the display panel on the T400 / T500 offset to the right?
With such a large "frame" around the left side and the top? With the little lines or grooves, it appears that it may be the antenna. Anyone know?

My T60 has a nice slim, "frame" around the centered display. Just like the prior T models I've had like the T43/T42, T30, T23 etc.
The T61 series was the first I'd seen with the offset display. Since it's been nearly a year that I have been away from the forum, I'm out of touch on this issue with the display position, and much "wider frame" that surrounds it. An answer to this would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

#56 Post by **gator** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:50 pm

Archer6, the reason for the wider frame is spposedly the new array of antennas that are present in these machines (wifi, wwan, wimax, WUSB) ... I don't like the wide bezels or the off-centered LCD, but it seems that all new thinkpads have this (sadly).

Also, you have a PM

#57 Post by **archer6** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:33 pm

gator wrote:Archer6, the reason for the wider frame is spposedly the new array of antennas that are present in these machines (wifi, wwan, wimax, WUSB) ... I don't like the wide bezels or the off-centered LCD, but it seems that all new thinkpads have this (sadly).

Also, you have a PM

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense, but I find it very ugly and unsettling from a design standpoint. It seems cheap, as so far I've not noticed any other new laptops from other mfgs with this characteristic. It reminds me of the old laptops years ago that had small displays with huge lids, wide frames and (now) a very dated look.

Just one more time that I'm reminded of how lucky I was, when I made the decision to buy the 60 series, just in case I did not like the upcoming changes influenced by Lenovo or their vendors. Like the loss of IPS on newer models. The IPS displays on my T60 & T60p models are stunning.

Thanks for the PM!

Cheers....

oghowie · #58 Post by **oghowie** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:45 pm

archer6 wrote:
oghowie wrote:Definitely waiting for the t400 review.

It's either that or a new MBP. haha
I wouldn't wish an MBP on my worst enemy...... from personal hands on experience just 45 days ago. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing Apple, as I've owned many new PowerBooks, MacBook, iPods, iPhone 3G, iTouch, etc. Briefly here is my recent experience:

1) Go to Apple store, write check for MBP, take it home (WiFi) only to find that it will not hold it's "airport connection" for more than 20 minutes only to drop out and never connect again until sitting over night, then the same 20 min issue. Take it to work (WiFi) same problem. Take it to Starbucks (WiFi) same issue.
2) Call Apple: "known problem" take it back the store will replace it.
3) Return to store: "never heard of it", but here's a new one.
4) Re-Read steps 1 thru 3 four times.... yes FOUR.

End of story, Apple store takes the 5th new MBP back from me and does NOT charge the 10% restocking fee as their wonderful MBP will NOT operate as advertised. My out of pocket expense? Hours of wasted time, trying to believe in Apple, give them an opportunity to make it right by trying 5 yes FIVE brand new sealed box MBP's. Simply mind boggling.... Finally it was only going to be a secondary laptop for fun anyway, some fun eh?

ThinkPads Forever........

Wow...

My bro hasn't had any problems with his, but a MBP will cost $1k+ more since I have a EPP discount on Thinkpads. I'll definitely have to think hard on this one.

SHoTTa35 · #59 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:59 pm

almost everyone that reported about the off center LCD said it annoyed at first but after a while you don't even notice it anymore. I am however thinking just like you are and being concerned about my future purchase of a T400/T401 if there is ever such a thing. I was hoping the T61 was just a quick update to the T60 and therefore they didn't have much time to plan/prepare for the introduction of widescreen. With the T400 i was hoping they'd run wires up both hinges to get the LCD centered as a result of the even distribution.

I haven't seen or used a T61 or a T400/500 yet however so maybe i should just reserve comments till then.

wswartzendruber · #60 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:07 pm

SHoTTa35 wrote:almost everyone that reported about the off center LCD said it annoyed at first but after a while you don't even notice it anymore. I am however thinking just like you are and being concerned about my future purchase of a T400/T401 if there is ever such a thing. I was hoping the T61 was just a quick update to the T60 and therefore they didn't have much time to plan/prepare for the introduction of widescreen. With the T400 i was hoping they'd run wires up both hinges to get the LCD centered as a result of the even distribution.

I haven't seen or used a T61 or a T400/500 yet however so maybe i should just reserve comments till then.

I spent a few minutes on a T61. Later on I found out the screen was off-centered.

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