Changing T61p to T500 - is it worth the price (detailed)?

[WojtekJ]

Hi!
I’m thinking about buying the new T500 in place of my T61p (which I bought less than 3 months ago).
I have a buyer who gives me about 100$ less than the price of T500 configuration shown below (but it depends on duties, I can earn some money on the change too) – this is the only reason I’m thinking about changing my laptop.
I would be grateful for your advices – I’m not sure if it’s a good or a bad idea to buy the new computer with Centrino 2.

First, I’ll list elements that don’t change (that I have in my T61p and I’ll choose in the new T500):

• UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
• 250 GB Hard Disk Drive, 5400rpm
• Integrated Bluetooth PAN
• Integrated Wireless Wide Area Network upgradable
• 9 cell Li-Ion Battery
• DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
• 15,4 WSXGA+ (1680x1050) CCFL (I would like to change it to 15,4 WSXGA+ with LED backligt, but it's not possible in Lenovo - and in general I suppose there's no such screen with LED backlight on the market).

This is the list of elements that will change:

• T9300 (2,50 GHz, 6 MB cache L2, 800 MHz)
  -> P8400 (2,26 GHz, 3 MB cache L2, 1066 MHz)
• NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (256MB Open GL)
  -> ATI Mobility Radeon 3650 with 256MB
• 4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz
  -> 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz (and I want to buy 2 GB more in some other store - to have 4 GB)
  -> 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz (if Lenovo will give it in the configurator)
• Intel Turbo Memory 1GB
  -> Intel Turbo Memory 2GB
• PC Card Slot & Smart Card Slot
  -> Express Card Slot & Smart Card Reader ( ??)
• Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN (supporting Centrino Pro)
  -> Intel WiFi Link 5300 (3x3 AGN)
• UltraWide Band (UWB)
  -> NOTHING
• NOTHING
  -> Integrated Camera.

So …
I was decided to change the laptop cause I thought there’s a LED backlight in T500 (which I would really like to have – it was very important for me).
Then I realized, that there’s no LED backlight in the screen I wanted to buy (I’m interested in 15,4” 1680x1050 only) and now I’m not sure if this change have a big sense.

My doubts:

• I change T9300 2,5 GHz 6MB cache L2 800 MHz processor into P8400 2,26 GHz 3MB cache L2 1066 MHz.
  Cons – I lose 0,24 GHz, I lose 3MB of L2 cache.
  Pros – I get 1066 MHz in place of 800 MHz, and the new processor consumes 25W in place of 35W.
  Do you know it I’ll lose much of power (the processor will work on the faster bus but it’ll loose half of L2 cache and some MHz’s)?
  Maybe it's better to buy a P8600 processor (about 50 dollars more)?
  In this set of benchmarks : http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6489/obraz01qs8.jpg P8600 is usually slower but sometimes faster too than T9300 with larger cache (it's ordered by the last benchmark - highlighted with the pink rectangle).
  I use computer for programming (C# .NET), Internet, office work, music, movies, etc. I don’t play games (completely nothing), I don’t use computer for graphics or making videos. Will the change be notable in any way (I believe that it probably won't)? The new processor consumes less energy, do you think that it will extend much the battery life?
• I change 4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz into 4 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz.
  There’s no 4 GB in Lenovo’s offer now (somebody knows why?) but I’ll buy the second memory to have 4 GB in total - 2 GB DDR3 1066MHz in one dimm costs about 120 dollars now.
  After reading some comparisons and reviews - I believe that DDR3 1066 MHz will be slightly faster than DDR2 667 MHz (that has T61p).
  I hope there won’t be any problem with memories from different companies working together?
• I lose UltraWide Band. Don’t know why Lenovo deleted it from the configurator – when I was buying T61p I could have it with Intel Turbo Memory – now it’s not possible (somebody knows why?).
  I hoped that the technology will be quite popular one day – but It has already about 4 years and I haven’t heard much about it. There are almost no devices, it's not beeing used as planned.
  I think now there are no many gadgets that use UWB so I believe it’s not so important to have it – but maybe I’m wrong (some other opinions?).
• I change Intel Wireless WiFi Link 4965AGN (supporting Centrino Pro) into Intel WiFi Link 5300 (3x3 AGN).
  I believe it’s just a good thing and doesn’t have any cons (5300 should be much better, I'm not planning to buy 5100).
• I change NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (256MB Open GL) into ATI Mobility Radeon 3650 with 256MB.
  I know that ATI is much slower, but I don’t really need so powerful graphic card – I don’t play computer games, I don’t use CAD, I don’t make graphics.
  I don’t pay much attention to the graphic card (buying this powerful card didn’t have much sense for me).
  The good thing about Centrino 2 and graphic card – I can switch external card with internal card and save energy while using the battery (I like really much this idea).
• I get some Centrino 2 technology’s advantages:
  New chipsets, new faster bus 1066 MHz, processor consuming less energy, switchable graphic card, better wireless and wired cards consuming less energy.
• We don’t know much about the laptop (no reviews, no owners yet). It looks exactly like T61p, there are no visible changes.
  Maybe it will be quieter (consumes less energy and temperatures should be lower too)?

The bad thing about all that is that I have to ship my laptop to Poland (the buyer is polish) and he will not pay me in US dollars but in the polish currency (so I don't know if I'll earn something on that or if I'll lose some money - it depends on the dollar’s value in the moment of buying the new laptop).
The second thing - I stay in Mexico now (until November) so I’ll have to pay taxes for importing the new laptop (16% - that's the second reason of loosing some money on the change).
I'm not sure if changing T61p to T500 with some things better and some things worse will be worth that price (I can lose at most 200 dollars on the change and stay 2 months without new laptop - although I can use my old HP with Pentium M740 and 512 DDR).
I’m not 100% sure if all that is worth the effort – I would be grateful for any advices.
Regards!

[dr_st]

Seems totally not worth it too me. The potential gain (if any) is small, and the risks and potential losses are far greater (delays, taxes, etc.). Two months without a laptop that you need is a huge problem in itself, and although it is hard to attach a monetary value to it, it is probably greater than the $100-$200 you stand to lose on the transaction.

[freakwave]

I am really wondering why you would do this.
So performance wise there will be no difference at all.
The only real argument for a T500 would be the switchable graphics which extends the battery life a lot. Of course this also only makes sense when you travel a lot.

I have a T60p and in a similar situation. The only real reason for me to upgrade soon is that I need 8GBytes of memory. It is not possible with my T60p, it is possible with T61p (4GBytes DDR2 sodimms are available and the chipset supports it) and will be available soon for the T500 once the DDR3 modules are available.

So other than I think there is really no reason to upgrade. So my advise:
Enjoy your great machine and wait for the next generation.

[dkchen]

They offer a 4 GB RAM only when you choose a 64 bit OS. The reason if you may know or not is that normal Windows XP pro and Vista only support up to 3 GB of RAM.

64 bit OS's can handle quite a bit more. It also depends on how much the motherboard can support also.

[morgandog]

They offer a 4 GB RAM only when you choose a 64 bit OS. The reason if you may know or not is that normal Windows XP pro and Vista only support up to 3 GB of RAM.

64 bit OS's can handle quite a bit more. It also depends on how much the motherboard can support also.

My understanding is that XP supports up to 4GB of total system memory (not just RAM, so you generally cannot access all 4GB of ram). My desktop system running XP Pro has 4GB installed and I can see well under the total of 4, but generally more than the 3.

[WojtekJ]

Thank you for all answers.
I was thinking about the change just because the person who wants to buy the computer offers me about 2000-2100 dollars (the total sum depends on the dollar's value cause he gaves me the money in the other currency), covering mostly the new computer's price, shipping of the new computer from USA to Mexico, taxes paid for the new computer and shipping of the old computer to Poland. I paid 1580 for the old one.

I decided in one moment that I'll do the change because of LED backlight but then I realized that it's not available with the screen I want to buy. That's why I have some doubts now.

There's some chance that somebody will bring me the new laptop to Mexico (my friends family comes here from USA from time to time), so in that way I will avoid about 16% of tax. In this option I earn some money on the whole change.
If I ship it by USPS and pay taxes on the border - I lose some money - in this moment it's about 150 dollars (with the current dollar's price). If the dollar's value lower to the level it had for a long time and just changed last week - I lose 50 dollars.
If somebody brings it to me - I earn about 165 dollars.
The second option is a good deal and I think that it's good to change just if it'll be brought from USA in the plane ... - I'll use your advice and I'll not change the computer if I have to pay 150 more.

I know that the performance doesn't change almost at all - DDR3 doesn't give me much more speed (DDR2 667->DDR3 1066), the processor should be a bit slower (although should work in a similar way) - the overal performance maybe a bit faster cause of the faster bus and components.
The main thing now is the energy used by laptop - 25W processor, DDR3, new wireless cards and switchable graphic card can lower the power consumption pretty much (every part listed consumes in theory about 20-25% less energy than before).

Thanks for the information about the memory. I was choosing Vista Home Basic (cause I have an original Vista Ultimate 64 BOX) and before Lenovo was offering 4 GBs in every configuration of the operating system. Maybe they will some change if I send them email? I hope so.

[crispy517]

[quote="dkchen"]They offer a 4 GB RAM only when you choose a 64 bit OS. The reason if you may know or not is that normal Windows XP pro and Vista only support up to 3 GB of RAM.

64 bit OS's can handle quite a bit more. It also depends on how much the motherboard can support also.[/quote]

I thought the chipset on the T60's wouldn't recognize 4gb ram regardless of what operating system you used?

[agarza]

Hi Wojtek, If I had a T61p running with no problems whatsoever but plan to change the laptop I will find the way to not spend too much money on the laptop replacement.

Regarding the taxes on border, I hope I don't have to pay some, I'm from Mexico and I ordered a T61 from eBay. Item is shipping via USPS with Insurance & Tracking number, sent as a gift. Another fellow man said to me that he some years ago ordered a T60 using USPS and he paid nothing for taxes or aduana fees. So I'm not so sure if I'll have to pay taxes when I receive my T61.

Regarding the switch, I'll say wait until there are reviews somewhere, just to make sure you're investing on a good machine. I even had my doubts if the T61 would be a fair replacement to my current laptop (T42p), as there are so many mixed reviews, each with its pros and cons. So that's my advice, wait until there are at least a couple of reviews on the machine.
Also, If you say LED backlight is not available on WSXGA+ then why make the shift right now. I would have switch to WUXGA based on my personal preference, but basically I think you will not see some stellar difference in performance, and the tradeoff of not knowing if the machine will fulfill your expectations.

[WojtekJ]

Hi Wojtek, If I had a T61p running with no problems whatsoever but plan to change the laptop I will find the way to not spend too much money on the laptop replacement.
Regarding the taxes on border, I hope I don't have to pay some, I'm from Mexico and I ordered a T61 from eBay. Item is shipping via USPS with Insurance & Tracking number, sent as a gift. Another fellow man said to me that he some years ago ordered a T60 using USPS and he paid nothing for taxes or aduana fees. So I'm not so sure if I'll have to pay taxes when I receive my T61.
Regarding the switch, I'll say wait until there are reviews somewhere, just to make sure you're investing on a good machine. I even had my doubts if the T61 would be a fair replacement to my current laptop (T42p), as there are so many mixed reviews, each with its pros and cons. So that's my advice, wait until there are at least a couple of reviews on the machine.
Also, If you say LED backlight is not available on WSXGA+ then why make the shift right now. I would have switch to WUXGA based on my personal preference, but basically I think you will not see some stellar difference in performance, and the tradeoff of not knowing if the machine will fulfill your expectations.

Hi!
Thanks for your opinion.
I decided (decision based mostly on your opinions) that I will not buy the new laptop if my friend's family can't bring it here to Mexico (they come with the visit).
If they can - and the person who wanted to buy the old laptop still wants it (he has holidays right now) - I will sell my old laptop.
I'll do it mostly because I can earn some money on it (at least 150$ while changing it to T500).
I have two options then:
- if I see reviews of the new T500 and it gains good reviews - I buy T500 and earn 150-200$.
- if reviews of T500 are not so optimistic - I buy cheaper about 200$ T61 (I really don't need so powerful graphic card and it was a waste of money for me to buy T61p) and earn about 350-400$.

Agarza, I have some bad news about taxes
I sent email to aduana Mexico ( www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx , aduana.mexico.usuariosweb2@sat.gob.mx ) asking about that and was looking for some informations on the Internet too - and probably you'll have to pay taxes. You selected a package insurance so I think there's less then 5% chance that you'll avoid taxes and aduana fees.
I send you the private message with informations received from aduana (that shows rules of importing things to Mexico).
If you could ship the computer between the 24th of november '2008 and the 9th of january '2009 - there's some period in what you don't have to pay taxes for things priced less than 3000$ (the last time it happened between 27th of june and 28th of july).
Informations about sending stuff as a gift to avoid taxes are mostly a myth. Sometimes it happens but it's nothing sure (usually custom's agencies force you to pay taxes if they see a big package with laptop inside). They always use x-rays to check what's inside and many times they unpack the item. The second thing - apart of marking it as a gift, you have to declare a lower price (less than 300$) to have a possibility to avoid taxes - if you insure the package putting the real laptop's value, they now in that moment how much it's really worth.

[agarza]

Yes thanks for the info Wojtek, too many bad news this month for me
It's a pity. I just hate having to buy the laptop outside Mexico, next time I'll use private PO Boxes so that you could pick up the item (it's a 5 hour trip though).

I'd say stick to your T61p, the resell value of the machine is high, also is a nice machine.

[agarza]

I have investigated a little bit and found out that only private shipping companies, such as FedEx or DHL charge you up to 25% on the product you receive. I can confirm this because I ordered a W810 cellphone shipped from China with DHL and they charged me a ridiculously high amount of pesos because of importing. I didn't knew that, I regret but I've learned using SEPOMEX (Mexican USPS) people claim they have not had to pay importing fees. So, fingers crossed.

[WojtekJ]

I have investigated a little bit and found out that only private shipping companies, such as FedEx or DHL charge you up to 25% on the product you receive. I can confirm this because I ordered a W810 cellphone shipped from China with DHL and they charged me a ridiculously high amount of pesos because of importing. I didn't knew that, I regret but I've learned using SEPOMEX (Mexican USPS) people claim they have not had to pay importing fees. So, fingers crossed.

Thanks, I wrote you the private message about 5 minutes ago (about that too) - I think they've taken taxes (USPS and Fedex have it's own custom's agencies).

[dickeywang]

The only real life difference you can notice between T61 and T400/T500 would be the battery life. I guess I'll keep my T61p until Nehalem based Thinkpad is out.