T60 vs T61

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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pksw
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#1 Post by pksw » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:05 pm

dr_st wrote:T61 would be a waste. If you upgrade the CPU in your T60 to a T7600, you'll get a kickass PC that will keep up with any T61 out there, and will have the additional benefit of not being a T61. :) Will be cheaper too.
Don't want to hijack the thread, but why is a T60 considered better than a T61? If this is too off topic, PM replies are ok. I am wanting to upgrade my t41p, and have been offered a t60p. 14" 4:3 screens are perfect for me, and the W500 only comes in 15" WS.

Is it even worth upgrading from a t41p to a t60p?
T41p / T61p

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#2 Post by basketb » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:48 pm

The only reason, I think, (some) people would consider a T60p superior to a T61p is that the former could be had with a 15" 4:3 IPS screen. Some people consider IPS the god of LCDs. Some people consider any aspect ratio other than 4:3 as blasphemy.

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#3 Post by awolfe63 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:38 pm

In general, the T60p is not a better machine, but it also has few disadvantages compared to a T61p. If you can get the IPS screen - I would go for it.
(I'm not an IPS worshiper like some - but they are pretty 8) )

Also - if there is a big price advantage - the T60p won't disappoint you even without the IPS screen.
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#4 Post by agarza » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:14 pm

basketb wrote:The only reason, I think, (some) people would consider a T60p superior to a T61p is that the former could be had with a 15" 4:3 IPS screen. Some people consider IPS the god of LCDs. Some people consider any aspect ratio other than 4:3 as blasphemy.
Yes, it's a blasphemy even more grave to ditch the 4:3 Thinkpads. They were meant to be business machines, not consumers 'go with the others' brands.
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Past: T420 HD+, X61s XGA, T61 14" SXGA+, T42p 14.1 SXGA+, T30, A22e

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#5 Post by Blue Thunder » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:26 am

Isn't the line in audio input also disabled (via hardware?) on the T61?' Theres a thread about it floating around here somewhere.
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#6 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:42 am

Yes, that is correct, the stereo input no longer exists on any new ThinkPads, T61 included.

My answer might be confusing, but here it is anyway: if you're intent on running XP, stick with T60/p and you won't regret it. Vista (in its full-blown form) calls for a T61/p.

If you liked your T41p, you'll likely love T60p although you may be disappointed by its looks/weight and keyboard.

Good luck.
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#7 Post by dr_st » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:50 am

Several reasons. Some have to do with what was available with the T60 and not the T61, such as:

* IPS screens (not only on the P-models, BTW)
* More 4:3 screens to go around (although there are standard screen 14" T61s out there, they are scarce).

I would take an 15" SXGA+/UXGA IPS over 15.4" WSXGA+/WUXGA anyday (screen quality vs. higher res).

I would also take a 14" SXGA+ over the 14" WXGA+ (form factor + higher resolution are both in favor of the standard screen, IMO).

Then there are a couple of disadvantages to a T61, even when you are comparing apples-to-apples (say 14" standard screen, or 15.4" wide screen).

* Chipset woes. Most of the guys at work here received T61s and hate them for various random crashes/freezes. No such problems with the T60s.
* Disabled stereo mix / line input
* nVidia G84M/G86M-based chips are a potential issue
* Slightly thicker/heavier (due to the LCD rollcage)
* Ugly

That is not to say that the T61 does not have any advantages. The CPU speeds go a bit further, and with the faster FSB it is a bit more responsive (but not noticeably so). The graphic chipsets are also stronger, both for integrated and dedicated. Finally there is a camera option, and if you are a fan of 14" widescreen, then T60 is not your cup of tea.

All in all, T61 compared to a T60 offers the standard small performance boost you expect from any additional generation, at the expense of some usability. Kinda like the T43 was to T42, but even more pronounced.

That's just my opinion of course.

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#8 Post by pksw » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:54 am

ajkula66 wrote:Yes, that is correct, the stereo input no longer exists on any new ThinkPads, T61 included.

My answer might be confusing, but here it is anyway: if you're intent on running XP, stick with T60/p and you won't regret it. Vista (in its full-blown form) calls for a T61/p.

If you liked your T41p, you'll likely love T60p although you may be disappointed by its looks/weight and keyboard.

Good luck.
I will only be using WinXP. I hate Vista. I also only want a 14" screen, as I'm a bit concerned that going to 15" widescreen will make the machine too big/heavy. 1400x1050 is perfect resolution for me, as that is what I currently have on the t41p.

I think I'm right in reading the sticky which reports that I can only access 3 gig of RAM, even if I run a 64bit OS.

How do I know if the machine I'm interested in has a flexview IPS screen?

This is the machine in question:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/IBM-Thinkpad-T60 ... dZViewItem

I'd hope a T7600 with 4 gig ram, would be a noticeable upgrade on a Pentium M 1.7 with 1 gig ram.
T41p / T61p

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#9 Post by dr_st » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:56 am

That machine is a kickass machine. It is the best 14.1" T60 ever produced, and would only be inferior to a 15" T60/p with the same specs (since only the 15" screens are IPS).

On the other hand, the 14.1" is smaller and lighter.

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#10 Post by Kamika007z » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:03 am

dr_st wrote:That machine is a kickass machine. It is the best 14.1" T60 ever produced, and would only be inferior to a 15" T60/p with the same specs (since only the 15" screens are IPS).

On the other hand, the 14.1" is smaller and lighter.
Agreed. The 2007-8JU IMHO was the last best 14.1 ThinkPad made.

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#11 Post by Aroc » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:16 pm

The 3GiB limitation in the T60 and T60p were enough to keep me away. I'm hoping for a 8GiB upgrade on my T61p. Until that time, 4GiB will need to hold me.
IBM X220 | T61p | R61e | T43 | Black Macbook | i5 Hackintosh | i7 iMac 27 | Dell 3007WFP-HC WQXGA

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#12 Post by pksw » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:41 am

Didn't end up winning the bidding for the t60p. But I now have a t61p with the WUXGA screen, for only slightly more. Vista was surprisingly fast, but after creating the recovery media, I've gone straight back to WinXP. I still prefer my OS to look like Win2k.
T41p / T61p

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#13 Post by dr_st » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:54 am

You can get Vista to look almost like Win2K. The large icon size is the only thing that requires much tweaking.

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#14 Post by Kamika007z » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:33 pm

Win2k was the best :)

If they added the "lock toolbar" option, that would win me back :P

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#15 Post by pksw » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:22 pm

Yes, I have Vista set up to look like Win2k too. I managed to factory restore, repartition, and set up dual booting WinXP and Vista, as well as having the recovery partition still working.

It took half a day though!

I still have apps that don't work in Vista, so for now, I'll keep the Vista partition, but will use XP. And I try to use portable apps, so I can share them between the OS's (like portable firefox, thunderbird etc).
T41p / T61p

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#16 Post by YeOldeStonecat » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:36 am

Just adding to this thread....I'm about to purchase a replacement for my T41. I love the size of it...thin, lightweight, thin frame around the screen.

I'm seeking the closest chassis in the T6x line. Just still a bit unsure of the differences.

It seems the T61 does not come with a 15" screen..but either a 14.1" or a 15.4"?

I read about the T60p with a 15" screen...which if I'm reading correctly..is the much praised IPS screen?

From screenshots...it looks like the frame around the LCD screen got "fat" on the T61 series, and some of the T60 models also. :(

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#17 Post by crazyfrog » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:37 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote: It seems the T61 does not come with a 15" screen..but either a 14.1" or a 15.4"?
T61 comes with 3 models of screen, 14.1" standard (just similar to your T4X, Click here), 14.1" wide screen and 15".4 wide screen.
YeOldeStonecat wrote: I read about the T60p with a 15" screen...which if I'm reading correctly..is the much praised IPS screen?
Yes, 15" T60p is either SXGA+ or UXGA IPS screen. Go for it if you can get one. You won't regret the extra 1" as compared with your T41.
Core 2 Duo T7600, 3GB DDR2-667 RAM, Main 7K320 320GB 7200RPM + Ultrabay 320GB 5400RPM, ATI FireGL V5250, 15" IPS UXGA, DVDRW, Bluetooth, Atheros ABGN, NMB Keyboard, Fingerprint, Win7 Pro X86 + Vista 64-bit SP2, Advanced Dock.

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#18 Post by dr_st » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:16 pm

And if you prefer to keep it lighter - go for the 14" T60/T60p, if you can find it. Very cute laptop.

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#19 Post by YeOldeStonecat » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:46 pm

crazyfrog wrote:
YeOldeStonecat wrote: Yes, 15" T60p is either SXGA+ or UXGA IPS screen. Go for it if you can get one. You won't regret the extra 1" as compared with your T41.
OK..so this 15" T60p is really 15"? Or technically 15.4?

From what I gathered in skimming some of the endless "t60 v t61" threads that I'm adding too. :) ...some threads have mentioned that the t61 is better at Vista.

Then of course this afternoon..I derailed my train of thought on the 60 v 61 and started looking at the T400 models. ;7

*sigh*....sometimes I can't stand getting to bogged down in decisions that should be simple.

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#20 Post by dr_st » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:18 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote:OK..so this 15" T60p is really 15"? Or technically 15.4?
There are SXGA+/UXGA+ standard screen 15" (4:3) T60/T60p models, which have the IPS screen, and widescreen 15.4" WSXGA+/WUXGA T60p models, which don't have an IPS screen.

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#21 Post by Kamika007z » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:29 pm

dr_st,

If you can, get the T60/p 14.1 SXGA+

In my opinion, that was the last best design from IBM/Lenovo and closely resembles your T41.

Best,
Kamika007z

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#22 Post by pksw » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:25 pm

Kamika007z wrote:dr_st,

If you can, get the T60/p 14.1 SXGA+

In my opinion, that was the last best design from IBM/Lenovo and closely resembles your T41.

Best,
Kamika007z
Having just upgraded from a t41p to t61p, the screen isn't as good. There is noticeable background flicker, which I've never seen before on an LCD screen. My t41p didn't have as bright a picture, but didn't have any flicker. My refresh rate is set to 60Hz (only option I get).

I would have loved to get a 4:3 14" 1400x1050 screen in a t6x series, but in Australia, we only seem to have the widescreen format.

YeOldeStonecat - if you want to see the options for screen sizes etc, just check the machine type codes in: ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... tabook.pdf
T41p / T61p

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#23 Post by agarza » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:01 am

The T61 4:3 is identical to the T60 with the exception of the LCD which is 'fat' on the T60. My T61 have a severe case of backlighting in the bottom of the LCD, sometimes its bothering. Positive is that new T61 is very cool. Rarely the CPU would go above 58C (undervolted @ 0.950V using RMClock).

For those interested, I took a bunch of pics of my T61, comparing it against my T42p:

http://thinkpads.picturepush.com/

IMO to the original OP if you don't mind a WS laptop, get the T400. It will be a nice upgrade to your T41, although the battery sticks out.
Current
T440p:
Core i7-4710MQ|16GB RAM|Intel 200GB SSD| 14.1" AUO IPS FHD|Win 7 Pro|T450 Trackpad|Backlit keyboard|2nd Caddy

T460p:
Core i5-6300HQ|16GB RAM|lPNY 256GB SSD| 14.1" Panasonic IPS WQHD|Win 7 Pro
Past: T420 HD+, X61s XGA, T61 14" SXGA+, T42p 14.1 SXGA+, T30, A22e

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#24 Post by YeOldeStonecat » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:37 pm

dr_st wrote:
YeOldeStonecat wrote:OK..so this 15" T60p is really 15"? Or technically 15.4?
There are SXGA+/UXGA+ standard screen 15" (4:3) T60/T60p models, which have the IPS screen, and widescreen 15.4" WSXGA+/WUXGA T60p models, which don't have an IPS screen.
Wow...those 15.0" T60p models are sure hard to find. Been scouring eBay for a while. Found one seller today, a store, but they just opened last week..not about to hand over 1200 bucks to an unknown on eBay.

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#25 Post by NathanA » Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:01 pm

YeOldeStonecat wrote:Wow...those 15.0" T60p models are sure hard to find.
Yup, and once you find one, you're likely to pay a pretty penny for it! Those lucky SOBs who have one (which includes myself ;)) are not about to let go of them, at least not easily!

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#26 Post by eecon » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:44 pm

Can a T60p motherboard actually support a full 4Gb of memory like a T61p if you have a 64-bit OS such as Vista Ultimate?

This thread implies the answer is no, but I'd appreciated a confirmation:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=47347
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#27 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:56 pm

@eecon:

The chipset used in T60/p machines will only support 3GB, although BIOS will "see" 4GB.

Tested. Confirmed. Repeated ad nauseam. Done deal... :D

I'd take 1GB less in RAM capacity in exchange for a FlexView LCD any day of the week...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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#28 Post by eecon » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:12 pm

ajkula66 wrote:@eecon:

The chipset used in T60/p machines will only support 3GB, although BIOS will "see" 4GB.

Tested. Confirmed. Repeated ad nauseam. Done deal... :D

I'd take 1GB less in RAM capacity in exchange for a FlexView LCD any day of the week...
I have both a T42 15" 4:3 FlexView 1400x1050 and a T61 15.4" WS 1680x1050. Side by side, I have to admit that the FlexView is a very nice screen :thumbs-UP:
Two - T61p 15.4" WS T9300 2.5Ghz units, August 2008 08/08 Builds + Nvidia FX570M GPUs, One - T42 15" Flexview 1.8GHz + ATI GPU for travel, Two - T500 15.4" T9600 & T9400 CPUs with ATI HD3650 GPUs, One - Stupidly Fast W520 15.6" i7-2860QM + Nvidia 2000M GPU + Series 3 Dock w/USB 3.0

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#29 Post by Davemci » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:55 am

YeOldeStonecat wrote: Wow...those 15.0" T60p models are sure hard to find. Been scouring eBay for a while. Found one seller today, a store, but they just opened last week..not about to hand over 1200 bucks to an unknown on eBay.
You may be interested in this one.
X220, 600X, Edge 13, T22, T23, 701C, 560Z, T60p, T43, 240Z,....

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#30 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:06 pm

That seller ships only within U.S.

Wait for syedj' s next T60p, I guarantee from personal experience that you won't be disappointed...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

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