Trying to Order T60 NMB Keyboard

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wswartzendruber · #1 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:37 pm

After reading Kevin's review of the T400, I've decided to order a T60 NMB keyboard. However, whenever I put the part number in, the Lenovo website errors-out.

Lenovo Support & downloads - Order part:

I am entering 39T0958 as the part number. It then asks me to choose between the U.S. and Australia. This is where it dies on me.

Does anyone happen to know how much this thing goes for?

#2 Post by **archer6** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:20 pm

wswartzendruber wrote:After reading Kevin's review of the T400, I've decided to order a T60 NMB keyboard. However, whenever I put the part number in, the Lenovo website errors-out.

Lenovo Support & downloads - Order part:

I am entering 39T0958 as the part number. It then asks me to choose between the U.S. and Australia. This is where it dies on me.

Does anyone happen to know how much this thing goes for?

To the best of my knowledge these are no longer available. I tried to order one just a month ago (or less) and called in to speak with a senior parts analyst that I have dealt with in the past. He could not confirm one way or the other, then three days later I received an email saying they were unavailable. However that said, my ThinkPad did not come with that keyboard.

In the past when I needed an OEM part that _was_ listed in the build sheet (parts lookup) for my model, they were able to obtain it and sell it to me, as I was out of warranty. So my impression was that they keep a small stock on hand as replacement parts for the machines that were built with that exact brand and part number, but do not sell them to people that have other parts in their machines.

wswartzendruber · #3 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:30 pm

archer6 wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:After reading Kevin's review of the T400, I've decided to order a T60 NMB keyboard. However, whenever I put the part number in, the Lenovo website errors-out.

Lenovo Support & downloads - Order part:

I am entering 39T0958 as the part number. It then asks me to choose between the U.S. and Australia. This is where it dies on me.

Does anyone happen to know how much this thing goes for?
To the best of my knowledge these are no longer available. I tried to order one just a month ago (or less) and called in to speak with a senior parts analyst that I have dealt with in the past. He could not confirm one way or the other, then three days later I received an email saying they were unavailable. However that said, my ThinkPad did not come with that keyboard.

In the past when I needed an OEM part that _was_ listed in the build sheet (parts lookup) for my model, they were able to obtain it and sell it to me, as I was out of warranty. So my impression was that they keep a small stock on hand as replacement parts for the machines that were built with that exact brand and part number, but do not sell them to people that have other parts in their machines.

Interesting. I managed to find this after Googling. I just e-mailed their sales department confirming that this is, in fact, the NMB keyboard that everyone "in the know" seems to want to get their hands on.

My T60 has this keyboard. No wonder it kicks so much a**, but I'm giving this machine to my old man and he's NOT getting short-changed.

Otherwise I'd yank it out and pop it in my future T400.

sfrohman90 · #4 Post by **sfrohman90** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:08 pm

what exactly is the point of swapping out the T400 keyboard? whats the difference between this new one and the T60 keyboard?

marvel · #5 Post by **marvel** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:51 am

Perhaps the FRU has been changed?

A month ago I ordered a T60 NMB kbd (swedish) with this FRU 39T0979, as stated on Lenovos website being a NMB for T60(p). Got an Alps instead, returned and ordered again, this time specificly asking for an NMB. Again got an Alps... Called IBM/Lenovo and explained the situation. Next day Lenovo mailed me another FRU: 42T3164. It seems that´s an RXX kbd, but fits my T60p perfectly. Lenovo explained that to me later as being a change in their labeling.

#6 Post by **Harryc** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:02 am

39T0958 at Upgradebay

own6volvos · #7 Post by **own6volvos** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:29 am

sfrohman90 wrote:what exactly is the point of swapping out the T400 keyboard? whats the difference between this new one and the T60 keyboard?

Lots of keyboard flex or none at all.

wswartzendruber · #8 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:39 am

own6volvos wrote:
sfrohman90 wrote:what exactly is the point of swapping out the T400 keyboard? whats the difference between this new one and the T60 keyboard?
Lots of keyboard flex or none at all.

But is it the keyboard or the lack of magnesium under it? That's why asked earlier if it was the kind of flex that's easy to induce but then suddenly stops (when it hits the frame), or if there's no magnesium under it so it sinks down farther the harder you push.

own6volvos · #9 Post by **own6volvos** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:57 am

wswartzendruber wrote:
own6volvos wrote: Lots of keyboard flex or none at all.
But is it the keyboard or the lack of magnesium under it? That's why asked earlier if it was the kind of flex that's easy to induce but then suddenly stops (when it hits the frame), or if there's no magnesium under it so it sinks down farther the harder you push.

I cover the keyboard issue a bit more in my T500 first look that went up a bit ago:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4560

The keyboard is half as thick, and flops around like a sheet of rubber. While the magnesium frame was machined to look like swiss cheese, it was not the problem. Swapping the keyboard over from my T60 made it feel perfect again.

wswartzendruber · #10 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:46 pm

Kevin, thanks for for putting up with my obsession. The T400 is so far looking to be better in every way than the 14.1" T60.

Now, here's what the parts store had to say:

hello,

yes as far as i can tell

thanks

bill

...when I asked him if that was really an NMB keyboard.

EDIT!!! Better than the T60 given a T60's keyboard.

NathanA · #11 Post by **NathanA** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:44 am

wswartzendruber wrote:EDIT!!! Better than the T60 given a T60's keyboard.

I take it that means you have received the part and installed it?

I personally think that this is GREAT news, that the keyboard part hasn't changed and the keyboards are universally interchangeable amongst all T/R models from the T/R60 forwards. Just fantastic.

-- Nathan

wswartzendruber · #12 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:57 pm

NathanA wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:EDIT!!! Better than the T60 given a T60's keyboard.
I take it that means you have received the part and installed it?

I personally think that this is GREAT news, that the keyboard part hasn't changed and the keyboards are universally interchangeable amongst all T/R models from the T/R60 forwards. Just fantastic.

-- Nathan

I said that's what it's LOOKING like. AFAIK, my T400 hasn't even shipped yet.

dr_st · #13 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:22 am

wswartzendruber wrote:The T400 is so far looking to be better in every way than the 14.1" T60.

Please elaborate. Personally, I am very skeptical about the T400. Already the T61 I found inferior to the T60, and the T400 seems to have taken after the T61. It would be nice to know that things are better than they seem.

wswartzendruber · #14 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:30 am

dr_st wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:The T400 is so far looking to be better in every way than the 14.1" T60.
Please elaborate. Personally, I am very skeptical about the T400. Already the T61 I found inferior to the T60, and the T400 seems to have taken after the T61. It would be nice to know that things are better than they seem.

Inferior in what way?

dr_st · #15 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:49 am

wswartzendruber wrote:Inferior in what way?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=66045

morgandog · #16 Post by **morgandog** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:43 am

Does the part number (FRU) always refer to a single manufacturer? I've forgotten how this works since it's been a while since I had to chase a keyboard (after my T42 keyboard died). It'd be nice to hear if someone that replaces a T60 with a T400 actually tries this and gets the old keyboard to fit and work in the new system.

Also, does anyone know the corresponding part number for the same keyboard with the UK layout? I've got no problem with a US layout, but it might be easier to fund the UK one here in the UK!

wswartzendruber · #17 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:05 pm

1. Okay, so you don't like widescreen and want IPS back. That's understandable.

2. own6volvos has already put a T60 keyboard in a T400 with success.

dr_st · #18 Post by **dr_st** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:42 pm

morgandog wrote:Does the part number (FRU) always refer to a single manufacturer?

Also, does anyone know the corresponding part number for the same keyboard with the UK layout? I've got no problem with a US layout, but it might be easier to fund the UK one here in the UK!

Yeah, the FRU refers to a single manufacturer.

Here is the page with all the keyboard service parts for the T60:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62728.html

You can see that the FRU of the UK version NMB keyboard is 39T0982.

morgandog · #19 Post by **morgandog** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:04 pm

Yeah, the FRU refers to a single manufacturer.

Here is the page with all the keyboard service parts for the T60:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62728.html

You can see that the FRU of the UK version NMB keyboard is 39T0982.

Thanks a lot for the really helpful info.

I assume that the R60 and T60 (and even the Z60) use the same keyboard? I see that model come up as an R60 keyboard as well.

Thanks again!

dr_st · #20 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:51 am

morgandog wrote:I assume that the R60 and T60 (and even the Z60) use the same keyboard? I see that model come up as an R60 keyboard as well.

Indeed it seems that the FRU is the same for T6x/R6x/Z6x, all sizes. The R61/i have two sets of FRUs associated with them for whatever reason, the 39Txxxx numbers and the 42Txxxx numbers.

Kamika007z · #21 Post by **Kamika007z** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:36 am

Personally and aesthetically speaking, this machine looks like a major dissapointment, as well as the T61 series did.

What's with the screen STILL not being centered?

Now there are keyboard issues?

And I wish they still offered a 14.1 4:3 aspect ratio screen. Which sadly I don't think will happen anymore.

Also, someone please anser me this... Are the new T series laptops using the ALPS touchpad or the Synaptics touchpad? If they have gone the ALPS route as they did on the X300 notebooks, then this is a HUGE problem for me. ALPS is such a bad touchpad, but it is cheaper than Synaptics. I hope they didn't change this. Can anyone confirm this?

Personally, the best looking machines they had ended with the T43 and also the T60 (except for the really cheap-looking silver volume and power buttons).

Sorry all, just ranting

Thank you,
Kamika007z

dickeywang · #22 Post by **dickeywang** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:00 am

Kamika007z wrote:Personally and aesthetically speaking, this machine looks like a major dissapointment, as well as the T61 series did.
What's with the screen STILL not being centered?
Now there are keyboard issues?
And I wish they still offered a 14.1 4:3 aspect ratio screen. Which sadly I don't think will happen anymore.
Kamika007z

I totally agree with you. The off-center display is one of the reason that I am having neck pain now. I am seriously considering switch back to a T60 from my T61p. I think the keyboard problem will be a disaster for Lenovo. The only two reasons that I choose a Thinkpad over other brand is the keyboard and the 2-pin power plug.
And, yes, the lacking of 4:3 screen really sucks.

Kamika007z · #23 Post by **Kamika007z** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:32 pm

What about the touchpad? Are they still using the Synaptics brand touchpad or have they gone to using ALPS?

The best way to check is to see if the driver properties state ALPS or Synaptics.

dr_st · #24 Post by **dr_st** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:26 am

I'm pretty sure it's Synaptics, because they get the whole Ultranav (Touchpad+Trackpoint) package from them, and the trackpoint obviously remained the same.

Kamika007z · #25 Post by **Kamika007z** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:26 pm

That's not entirely true.

I believe TrackPoint and UltraNav were names created by IBM themselves.

Also, the X300 uses ALPS technology for the trackpoint and ultranav.

Can anyone confirm which is what?

Thank you!

NathanA · #26 Post by **NathanA** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:59 pm

That's right, UltraNav is just a trademark name that IBM came up with to describe their TrackPoint + touchpad combo system.

The TrackPoint is an IBM homegrown technology that they don't "get" from anyone else; in fact I believe that the patent might still be in effect and they license it to other companies (but don't actually manufacture devices for sale to other OEMs...that's up to them to do, and is probably why almost without exception every other TrackPoint clone I've ever used besides IBM/Lenovo sucks).

The touchpad is something that they buy from other manufacturers; I'm pretty sure that previous posters are correct and that Synaptics handled fulfillment for most (if not all) previous models of ThinkPads, but I'm not 100% sure on this; I just know that I've seen reference to Synaptics in the drivers.

The TrackPoint is built into the keyboard, which is physically a separate unit from the palmrest which houses the touchpad. They both connect to the mainboard with separate cables plugged into separate connectors. The drivers for both devices are simply packaged together for tighter perceived integration, but they are very much distinct items.

Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if IBM/Lenovo had the keyboard manufacturers also building the actual TrackPoint hardware as well for them (I'm sure it's not like IBM manufactures them and then ships a bunch of them to NMB, Chicony, and Alps for final integration at the end of the keyboard manufacturing process, and surely Synaptics isn't doing this for IBM either). I've never noticed any real difference between the TrackPoints on the three different brands of keyboards used on modern ThinkPads, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were subtle differences as a result.

-- Nathan

EDIT -- Oops, I also meant to ask, why is everybody so hung up on getting a T60 NMB keyboard for their T400/500s? Why not instead hunt after the surely-more-readily-available T61 NMB keyboard FRU? They're basically the same keyboard (I believe a new FRU was generated when the Windows Logo key was subtly updated to include a faint circle around the logo). All T/R/Z 6x/4xx/5xx keyboards are interchangeable, and I haven't seen any evidence or posts claiming that the T/R/Z60-era keyboards are better than the T/R61 era?

Kamika007z · #27 Post by **Kamika007z** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:09 pm

Also Nathan,

The reason why I care so much

http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/ind ... c=7396&hl=

wswartzendruber · #28 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:29 pm

My T400 has a Synaptics touchpad. And something else, the offset screen really isn't noticable.

The keyboard is the only good argument against this thing.

NathanA · #29 Post by **NathanA** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:20 pm

Kamika007z wrote:The reason why I care so much...

I understand why you care about the touchpad, but that wasn't my question. My question wasn't even about why the T60 keyboard vs. the T400/500 keyboard; I get that. I want to know why people card about getting the T60 keyboard vs. the T61 keyboard.

Also, I was unclear why you had to go through all of the trouble of swapping the "trackstick" on the Inspiron 8200 keyboard with the one from the 8000/8100 keyboard if you were only concerned with getting the Synaptics touchpad working again. Maybe on the Dell the trackstick and the touchpad are tied together and you can't have one without the other. However, on the ThinkPads, I'm pretty sure this is not going to be the case, and if the T400/500s come with an Alps pad instead of a Synaptics pad, if you can figure out a way to hack the Synaptics pad onto the T400/500, you aren't going to have to worry about modifying the TrackPoint on the keyboard in any way, shape, or form. Remember that the T60/61 keyboards work on the T400/500s and vice-versa, so apparently there is no problem there as the same keyboard can be used in a computer with a Synaptics (T6x) or Alps (T4xx/5xx).

It has not yet even been confirmed that T/R4xx/5xx use Alps vs. Synaptics yet, correct?

-- Nathan

EDIT -- I see wswartzendruber's response confirms Synaptics, so it sounds like the touchpad is a non-issue.

Kamika007z · #30 Post by **Kamika007z** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:13 pm

Sweet! I'm glad they still are using Synaptics. They have the best precision. Now, I hope that's what they use for the x301's instead of Alps.

Regarding why I hacked it for the Inspiron 8200? Yes, one would disable the other if they both were different manufacturers. The housing to the keyboards were the same for the 8000/8100/8200, but the 8200's keyboards had cushioning so it had the best type feel out of the set. So I had to combine the best of both worlds to get things working.

Regarding the keyboards, the flex sounds pretty bad. I do hope they revert back to what it was. Lenovo really needs to stop 'tinkering' with things that have been working since ever.

Also, Nathan, you're absolutely right regarding the keyboards. You can use any T/R/Z series keyboards. With the exception of the new Txxx series, all of them are the same.

Wizard, thanks for the update. I surely do hope that the screen not being centered isn't the case and is unnoticeable.

Best regards,
Kamika007z

Trying to Order T60 NMB Keyboard

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