Help identifying electrical component (Inline pic)

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virge · #1 Post by **virge** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:14 pm

Okay, so this is in the "off topic" section because the component I'm trying to identify came from an LCD monitor, not a Thinkpad... I hope someone out there can tell me what I need to know.

Here's the pic: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=zxt9aw&s=4

Basically what happened is I bought an LCD monitor. It arrived arrived with intermittent power problems-- sometimes would come out of standby, other times would not. Sometimes the power led would blink, sometimes not, etc. I got a refund from the seller, and he told me to just keep the monitor. From what I've found out, a lot of power issues are caused by bad capacitors. I opened up the back and immediately noticed a bulging and leaky capacitor (cleaned up picture above). Its a big component with only two legs, so it wasn't too hard to remove. Now the problem is locating a replacement.

Any help on decoding the information and getting a replacement is appreciated.

Andy

teetee · #2 Post by **teetee** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:04 am

Maybe do a google search by using keyword "nichicon 2200 10v"?

By the way I didn't know capacitors from Japan also has the same leakage/bulge problem as the ones made by China/Taiwan in 2000-2002 on various motherboard/video interface cards. It's good to know.(Or maybe it's a design issue?)

#3 Post by **gator** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:36 am

Looks like an (aluminium?) electrolytic capacitor, 2200uF/10V rating.

sb102 · #4 Post by **sb102** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:30 am

check this one (ebay is a wonderful place):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0279066325

While this isn't an aluminum capacitor and it's not going to last as long as the one in the picture it will be adequate to your needs.

Moderator edit: Shortened URL to prevent horizontal scrolling and changed to US eBay

virge · #5 Post by **virge** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:07 pm

Is there a difference between aluminum capacitors and other materials? Also, I've been looking on Mouser.com and it seems like there are voltage and temperature tolerances for each capacitor... How do I know what this one is rated for?

sb102-- thanks for the link. What do you think about these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0199992093

sb102 · #6 Post by **sb102** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:16 pm

Hi virge,

The difference between those two types of capacitors are strictly cosmetical. The aluminum capacitor is build with newer materials (mainly electrolyt and electrodes). Thats why they are smaller than the older type. Also they are said to be more durable, but I don't think that is true. But they work on the same rules, so they are both swappable. Also, you mentioned the tolerances - this does not concern you (the tolerances are concidered as needed only for certain and sophisticated circuits - for egsample when they work in high temperatures). As for the capacitors suggested - never heard of them (I only use Panasonic and Jamicon, as they are most common in our stores) - but I must say that it's your choice (if you want to wait for them, as they are in Hong Kong).

#7 Post by **gator** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:24 pm

AFAIK, polarised electrolytic capacitors are made with either aluminium or tantalum ... tantalum ones are more accurate and usually expensive, and don't come in capacities greater than a few hundred uFs. Seeing a rating of 2200uF on that capacitor makes me think that it is aluminium .. ESR stands for equivalent (parasitic) series resistance, and lower the value better the capacitor usually ... the panasonic one linked above should be just fine for your needs.

fasterbybike · #8 Post by **fasterbybike** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:59 pm

I repaired an IBM branded LCD monitor (made by Samsung) which had the symptoms of intermittently turning of.

I replaced 2 electrolytic capacitors in the secondary side of the switching power supply. If the capacitor's are in this part of the circuitry it is essential to use low ESR versions. I used Panasonic, rated at 105 deg C.

HTH

virge · #9 Post by **virge** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:34 pm

Thanks for all the information. I found out that there is an electronics shop near me (Anchor Electronics in Santa Clara, Ca) that should have the components I need. I'll be headed over there tomorrow morning. This is much better than paying shipping!

virge · #10 Post by **virge** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:12 pm

Well, the helpful folks at the electronics store didn't stock any 10v 2200uf capacitors despite having nearly everything else... but they did assure me that a 16v 2200uf one would work just as well.

Doing a Google search suggests that this information is correct. Anybody have a second opinion or words of warning before I blow something up?

#11 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:57 pm

Higher voltage rating on the capacitor should be fine. What you don't want to do is replace a 10V capacitor with one which is rated at 5V. If you do, you might hear a "pop"

.

sb102 · #12 Post by **sb102** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:00 pm

I second that opinion: a 16 volt capacitor will do the trick. A word of caution, though:just don't confuse the polarity of the capacitor, or you will definately hear that 'pop' sound rkawakami mentioned...

virge · #13 Post by **virge** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:21 pm

Sounds like 2/2 voters agree that the 16v capacitor should be fine. That makes me feel better. Maybe I won't have to dig out the safety glasses after all. Then again, I just looked up "capacitor polarity" on Google and learned something new. I thought that the black line on top of the capacitor might be important... eh, I had a 50/50 chance of getting it right!

#14 Post by **gator** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:43 pm

Be careful with polarity on electrolytic capacitors! And yeah, the 16V should work.

virge · #15 Post by **virge** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:24 pm

Woohoo! Replacing that one capacitor fixed it! Now I have an UXGA flat screen match up with my T42P.

Thank you all!

sparta.rising · #16 Post by **sparta.rising** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:16 pm

So I have a similar problem with my Sony LCD monitor. When I turn on the panel it displays the picture for about 2 seconds and then it goes to black. Power cycling repeats this behavior. I took apart the panel and all of the capacitors on the power board look fine (I've seen busted capacitors on motherboards before). I checked out the CCFL tubes and they look fine too. Any suggestions? Below are the links to a couple of pictures I took of the power board.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2z99l03.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/161m0dg.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/f3al43.jpg

I have higher resolution images if you want to take a look, tinypic just limits size to 1600x1200.

#17 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:03 pm

Check the bottom to see if anything may look burnt.
Open up that yellow package to check what's inside.
Wiggle all parts to see if anything has a 'cold solder joint'.

virge · #18 Post by **virge** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:18 pm

The one to the left of the P/N number seems like it might be bulging a little bit.. if that's not it, then maybe try to get the proper instrument to measure capacitance? I'm very new at this (experience level: one capacitor), but I found this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dscn3622.png

Maybe it's worth it to just replace all the capacitors?

sparta.rising · #19 Post by **sparta.rising** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:23 pm

I have a digital multimeter, but its been awhile since I've used it, can you measure capacitance without powering the board? I don't want to be playing with an open LCD panel's capacitors.

I'll post a picture of the bottom side of the board. None of the PCB looks burnt, none of the parts are loose.

Edit: hey look a feather

#20 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:36 pm

You would definitely need to measure a capacitor without powering up the board. In fact, to get an accurate measurement you would have to remove one lead from the rest of the circuitry. If your digital multimeter is designed to measure capacitance, then yes it's easy to do. If your meter does not have a capacitance range, then, depending upon the value of the capacitor, you can use the highest resistance range to infer if the capacitor is okay or not. You won't be able to "read" the value but instead will be able to tell if the capacitor is not open or shorted. When you first place the meter leads across the capacitor (in high ohms mode), the "resistance" will start out low and change to infinity. How long it takes to get to infinity is proportional to the capacitance (the higher the uF, the longer it takes). A 2200uF cap will probably take several seconds before the resistance reading stabilizes.

edit: Almost forgot... you should short the leads of the capacitor together prior to measuring it with an ohmmeter.

virge · #21 Post by **virge** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:39 pm

rkawakami wrote: edit: Almost forgot... you should short the leads of the capacitor together prior to measuring it with an ohmmeter.

Does this make your whole arm tingle?

I had my ATX power supply open for cleaning one time and even though it was unplugged, something zapped me good. I always thought it was a capacitor.... seriously though, how would you go about shorting one safely?

Thanks for the tip on testing capacitors, that'll be handy one day.

#22 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:03 pm

Oh yes, if you got zapped by something that was unplugged, it came from a capacitor. Depending upon the capacity (uF) and voltage rating, you could conceivably get enough of a shock to cause bodily damage. The best way to discharge small value caps (10's to 100's of uF) would be to simply short them out with a screwdriver. Anything upwards of several thousand uF and more, then you might consider using a high wattage, high value resistor to bleed off the charge (e.g., 25 watt, 1 megaohm connected for several seconds).

sparta.rising · #23 Post by **sparta.rising** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:07 pm

Here's the bottom of the board:
http://www.mypicx.com/uploadimg/2106975 ... 2008_1.jpg

The stats on the big daddy capis on the bottom, glued, side of the cap, its hard to read, but I'm pretty sure it says 4500uf.

I don't currently have my multimeter, but when I retrieve it I'll try whats been suggested.

Oh, and this isn't really that important, just fun

sparta.rising · #24 Post by **sparta.rising** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:43 pm

Okay... I think I figured out the bad cap without a multimeter. I decided to reassemble the monitor and see if magic had happened from reconnecting everything. No dice. But I remembed someone saying something that the bad cap might be warm... so starting with the smallest one, I started touching the tops of the caps... The first one, no zip not warm, built my confidence. I worked my way around all the big ones (except for the big daddy) until I got the the small one above the yellow-wrapped-thing and zzzzaaappp. Oh boy. Wasn't too bad, no singed hair. So that's probably the bad one, yes?

#25 Post by **rkawakami** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:14 am

If by "zzzzaaappp" you mean "hot" and not "shock", then that could be a clue. I believe it's quite possible to be shocked by touching the metal top of an electrolytic cap since it may not be electrically isolated.

sparta.rising · #26 Post by **sparta.rising** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:47 am

Not sure if it was hot, it was a shock, sorry I should have been less funny and more descriptive. I just figured that since I wasn't shocked by any of the other caps that that one was likely defective.

Help identifying electrical component (Inline pic)

Help identifying electrical component (Inline pic)

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