On the fence - T400, T500, or W500

[{ISV-K}SVX]

I currently own the T61p and am looking to upgrade. I need some help deciding, so any advice is appreciated. Some questions that I have are:

1.) Which graphics card does the T400 have? I see everyone shipping with 3640 and website listing 3640; however tabook lists 3470 which is a HUGE step down from 3640. This is a big deal breaker for me b/c I would love to have the smaller size and extended battery life with decent graphics. Which is it?

2.) I see no Displayport on the T400. Is this correct? There is no mention anywhere on it.

3.) I do not see LED options for the T500 however the website clearly indicates this is an option. Anyone order one with an LED screen? TABook does not list an LED option.

4.) Is the FireGL v5700 equivalent to a 3650? If so, what is the benefit of going to the W500 over the T500 b/c I really do not see one.

5.) Lastly, is it even worth upgrading? My T61p has a 2.2Ghz CPU, FX570, 4GB RAM, WXGA, and performs well with games. I can spend about $500 and upgrade the CPU to a T9300 (2.5GHz, 6MB) and get the WUXGA LCD. I can also upgrade the DVD burner to Blu-Ray when the option comes available. A new loaded W500 will set me back $2500, T500 $2300, and a T400 at $1800. $500 vs those amounts for minimal performance boost is hard to justify.

Important items for me with current gen Lenovo:

- Rollcage - trust me, dropped a few TP's from 3+ feet and could not live without it!
- Reasonable graphics performance to play games like - COD4, Frontlines, BF2, MS Flight Sim X, BF2, UT3, HL2, LOMAC, etc
- Spillproof keyboard
- battery life of 3+ hours
- lastly, weight > 7.5lbs with extended battery

Any advice is appreciated!

[{ISV-K}SVX]

Few others I am considering outside Thinkpad (first for me):

Asus G50V-A2:

http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=5& ... odelmenu=2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834220377

Apple MacBook Pro (resounding duh):

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

Sony VAIO VGN-Z Series:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... ryId=16154

Yes, this is quite a range.

The Asus kicks in gaming for the price, but would not look good while presenting to a CIO as I frequently do.

The Macbook is comparable to the T61p/T500 outright and can run native Windows in psuedo-VM's.

Lastly, the Sony Z is just cool. It has decent 3d graphics (albiet not phenominal) and is switchable, has a Blu-Ray player option, HDMI, SPRINT option, and all the other enterprise level features of the T500 in a small lightweight package. And for those asking - why not the x300? x300 is older gen, no blu-ray option, no non-ssd hdd option, and no dedicated/switchable graphics at present.

I really want to stay with Thinkpad, but am having a hard time determining whether to upgrade my current or move on to one of the other options - T400/T500/W500/Asus G50V-A2/Apple MacBook Pro/Sony VAIO VGN-Z.

[{ISV-K}SVX]

Anyone? This is very unusual for this forum.

[AvalonXIII]

1) The T400 has the 3640. That is the one listed on the Lenovo website
2) There's no Display Port
3) T500 has no LED screen option. Again, you would know this if you check out the Lenovo website
4) v5700 is better than 3640. I don't have an exact idea by how much because nobody has gotten either laptop yet to do benchmark of the video card on each. W is the workstation series, while T is the mobile series, so by simple deduction, you'll know that the V5700 is better than 3640.
5) No, you should not upgrade if you got T61p. You will handle current games just fine with the T61p. It's just a waste to upgrade right now. Wait for Nehalem CPU's, and compatible chipset to come out then upgrade. That would be a more significant upgrade.

However, if you think switchable graphics is important because you need more unplugged time, then go for it. Just remember that the W series doesn't have switchable graphics.

About your other options: The Z-series is good. I would consider that, since it has a very very high resolution screen (1600x900). It also very lightweight and has a small footprint (13.3")

[awolfe63]

W500 has the same switchable graphics as the T-series.

I got 3904 under 3Dmark06 - see here.

[{ISV-K}SVX]

1) The T400 has the 3640. That is the one listed on the Lenovo website
2) There's no Display Port
3) T500 has no LED screen option. Again, you would know this if you check out the Lenovo website
4) v5700 is better than 3640. I don't have an exact idea by how much because nobody has gotten either laptop yet to do benchmark of the video card on each. W is the workstation series, while T is the mobile series, so by simple deduction, you'll know that the V5700 is better than 3640.
5) No, you should not upgrade if you got T61p. You will handle current games just fine with the T61p. It's just a waste to upgrade right now. Wait for Nehalem CPU's, and compatible chipset to come out then upgrade. That would be a more significant upgrade.

However, if you think switchable graphics is important because you need more unplugged time, then go for it. Just remember that the W series doesn't have switchable graphics.

About your other options: The Z-series is good. I would consider that, since it has a very very high resolution screen (1600x900). It also very lightweight and has a small footprint (13.3")

Retort :

1.) Website does not appear to be correct. TABook indicates otherwise - 3470. Also note this review posted today:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4569

which clearly states 3470. I have seen some posts indicating website is wrong, but I am still seeing orders going out where they state 3640. I am simply wondering if anyone has received one and can validate what they ordered is what they received. A 3470 is a much lower scoring card than a 3640 (if it is real) and can be a real deal breaker for me.

2.) Thanks for clarifying. Review posted today also seems to back this.

3.) Again website is giving mixed results. See this link where it does indicate LED as an option on the T500:

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... eteURLPage

4.) Understood the the V5700 is better than the 3640 (that is a gimmie), however, I was wanting to know about the 3650 instead. Based on published data across the web, the V5700 is nothing more than a Radeon 3650 which is in the T500. Now, given logical deduction if V5700 = 3650, then what is my motivation for getting a W500 over a T500. Is it the extra 256MB VRAM? We all know ATI and Nvidia both use similar chips in business/enterprise class chips and in desktop/gaming level chips (ie Nvidia FX570M is nothing more than an M8600GT) and that is what appears to be the case here. They modify the video bios and driver code to distinguish.

5.) I am leaning towards this. If I keep the T61p, then I will simply upgrade to the T9300 2.5GHz CPU, WUXGA LCD panel, palmrest with wide touchpad from a T500/W500, and Blu-Ray player. This would get me through another year easily. Switchable graphics are nice, but I have lived without them up until now so waiting is not going to hurt.

3904 on 3dMark06 is decent, but not the phenominal jump I would have expected in such an upgrade from last generation. Users are getting anywhere from an average of 3862 upwards of 4300 with the FX570M which I currently have. It is getting hard to justify the cost of a new 500W just for graphics.

Thanks for your replies fellas. #5 seems to be my best option, UNLESS, item #1 turns out to be a 3640 as opposed to a 3740. Then I might have to jump on it.

[AvalonXIII]

W500 has the same switchable graphics as the T-series.

I got 3904 under 3Dmark06 - see here.

I didn't know that the W-series also have switchable graphics as well
That is a very nice addition to it. Other than that I think my other answers are correct.

[{ISV-K}SVX]

I read somewhere that switchable live only works with Vista. In XP it has to be done in the bios? I may be incorrect on this.

[AvalonXIII]

I read somewhere that switchable live only works with Vista. In XP it has to be done in the bios? I may be incorrect on this.

According to this thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=66047

The answer to your question is yes.

[awolfe63]

W500 has the same switchable graphics as the T-series.

I got 3904 under 3Dmark06 - see here.

I didn't know that the W-series also have switchable graphics as well
That is a very nice addition to it. Other than that I think my other answers are correct.

That's why only corrected one part

Actually - there may be an LED option for the T500/W500 - some documents indicate that it is in the plan - but it certainly is not available for order so far.

[own6volvos]

1. I am the reviewer of the NotebookReview review review (review, lol). It does in fact have the 3470 card, and I can upload a GPU-z shot of it tomorrow when I get into work. Basically it will show the memory speed and the 3400 series card spec.

[awolfe63]

1. I am the reviewer of the NotebookReview review review (review, lol). It does in fact have the 3470 card, and I can upload a GPU-z shot of it tomorrow when I get into work. Basically it will show the memory speed and the 3400 series card spec.

Clearly the standard models in the TAbook have a 3470. The question is whether some CTO models are different as the web site says. I think that CTO units are shipping this week - so we should know soon.

From what I can tell in the photos, yours was a 2767-VBU which does not show up in the TAbook but is also not a CTO sku.

[AvalonXIII]

1. I am the reviewer of the NotebookReview review review (review, lol). It does in fact have the 3470 card, and I can upload a GPU-z shot of it tomorrow when I get into work. Basically it will show the memory speed and the 3400 series card spec.

It's too bad that it uses the 3470 card. It seems that either Lenovo make a mistake on their website or they are shipping out 3640 for CTO models.
Also, the W500 has the display port if I'm not mistaken, while the new T-series doesn't have display port at all.

[{ISV-K}SVX]

I hope we can get some clarification on the CTO T400 models this week. Hopefully someone can confirm once received.

[lew2]

It's too bad that it uses the 3470 card. It seems that either Lenovo make a mistake on their website or they are shipping out 3640 for CTO models.
Also, the W500 has the display port if I'm not mistaken, while the new T-series doesn't have display port at all.

Can you point to a spec sheet for this 3640? I can't find any indication that such a graphics processor exists. ATI's site has info on the 3470 but nothing at all on a 3640. What leads you to believe it's something other than a typo?

The NotebookReview.com review of the T500 clearly shows the DisplayPort on the left side. The T400 does not have DisplayPort, although DVI is available through a docking station.

[awolfe63]

There is no public information on the 3640. It may not exist - but it is not at all uncommon for graphics companies to underclock or overclock a product for a major customer (like lenovo) and just make up a new part number. I recently bought an HP desktop with an Nvidia card that "does not exist."

Lenovo often makes mistakes on the web store - but they are almost always fixed within 24 hours - this has been up for 3 weeks.

Also - the T500 has DisplayPort on the main chassis, the T400 only has a connection to the docking connector. This is clear from the spec sheets and TAbook.

[Mack]

End of speculation - Lenovo has corrected the typo on their websire after 3 weeks, it's a 3470.

[JaneL]

End of speculation - Lenovo has corrected the typo on their websire after 3 weeks, it's a 3470.

There's a reason item #16 has been in the FAQ here and on the mailing list for as long as there's been a FAQ (and before):

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1689

[Mack]

I was more refering to other people here speculating about it. I always check the tabook myself. The aftermath is just that it took 3 weeks for Lenovo to fix the typo... quite remarkable.

[awolfe63]

Usually, I find the TAbook to be a reliable source of information - but the TAbook does not provide any info on CTO skus. Oftentimes, for example, a certain CPU is not available on any preconfigured model - but is available CTO.

In this case, however, the 3640 appears to be imaginary.

[bmn]

1. I am the reviewer of the NotebookReview review review (review, lol). It does in fact have the 3470 card, and I can upload a GPU-z shot of it tomorrow when I get into work. Basically it will show the memory speed and the 3400 series card spec.

Can you say when you are releasing your review of the w500 on nbr?

[eecon]

1. I am the reviewer of the NotebookReview review review (review, lol). It does in fact have the 3470 card, and I can upload a GPU-z shot of it tomorrow when I get into work. Basically it will show the memory speed and the 3400 series card spec.

Can you say when you are releasing your review of the w500 on nbr?

I have looked through the tabook and the U.S. Lenovo website and find only one difference between a 15.4" WS T500 and a 15.4" WS W500 when otherwise configured with the same options. That difference is the discrete video card:

T500 = ATI Mobility Radeon 3650 M86M Hybrid 256Mb GDDR3

W500 = ATI mobility FireGL V5700 M86GL 512Mb GDDR3

Pricing difference is less than US$100 with the W500 being the highest priced.

Have I missed something here? ..... Otherwise, it basically boils down to only a difference in the discrete video card.

If so, would it not seem that a W500 would be the logical way to go just in case Lenovo has thown in some other "yet to be documented" good stuff into the W500 that the T500 may lack?

[awolfe63]

I think that is the only difference. Of course the graphics drivers are different as well. W500 is optimized for OpenGL and reliability and T500 for performance and gaming. The differences these days are pretty small though.

I don' t think the W500 has any surprised - it is basically the same system board.