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Hi everyone,
As you know from previous threads, the X61 has a serious heat problem in the right palm rest. Lenovo was aware of this problem in the X60 and actually solved it - but only for some of it's customers.
Only if you buy the WWAN version you get your X61 with an extra fan right next to the wireless card. Although all of the models are equipped with the proper casing and connectors to support the extra fan, again only the people who order it with the WWAN option get it.
Many people complained in many forums, and I've decided to step up the efforts. I've opened a thread on Lenovo forums that demands that Lenovo will fix this problem.
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/mess ... ing&page=1
So far Lenovo supplied lot's of excuses but no real solutions. I want this to change.
This story has already been picked by Softpedia, and I hope that more people will blog or write about the service you get after you buy an expensive notebook.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Lenovo-0 ... 2694.shtml
Pleas support and pass along to other users. You can also digg it here:
http://digg.com/hardware/Why_Lenovo_doe ... at_problem
Your support is crucial!
Heat Problem on X61 - Petition to Lenovo
Re: Heat Problem on X61 - Petition to Lenovo
I wish this were true, but, alas, it is false! Consequently, the large majority of X61 and X61s owners will not be able to install and connect the 2nd fan even if Lenovo were to send it gratis to each person who requested one, and replacing every motherboard is a non-starter.ColMaki wrote:Although all of the models are equipped with the ... connectors to support the extra fan ...
Yeah, right! Hospitals worldwide are overflowing with victims of this unforeseen tragedy. Pathetic reporting by Softpedia -- wrong on the facts, wrong on the engineering, wrong on the science.Softpedia article wrote:...a considerable amount of heat, so much so that it can have serious health implications for anyone using the palm rest.
Commenting on the absurdity of that Softpedia article was irresistible! Perhaps you missed the substantive part of my "contribution". Permit me to restate it:
You are misinformed when you write "all of the models are equipped with the ... connectors to support the extra fan".
The large majority of machines, indeed most, do not have the connector. Consequently, the remedy is replacement of the motherboards, not simply shipping you a small fan for you to install. Therefore, I ask you: Do you expect Lenovo to recall every such machine and replace its motherboard? If the answer is YES, then I wish you good luck. If the answer is NO, then there is no point to your "crusade".
I simply wanted you (and others) to be cognizant of the fact that the premise of your action -- i.e., that ALL such machines could/should be "fixed" because they have the proper connectors -- is incorrect.
Notwithstanding that there will be no retroactive remedy to this issue, I wish you good luck in your quest.
You are misinformed when you write "all of the models are equipped with the ... connectors to support the extra fan".
The large majority of machines, indeed most, do not have the connector. Consequently, the remedy is replacement of the motherboards, not simply shipping you a small fan for you to install. Therefore, I ask you: Do you expect Lenovo to recall every such machine and replace its motherboard? If the answer is YES, then I wish you good luck. If the answer is NO, then there is no point to your "crusade".
I simply wanted you (and others) to be cognizant of the fact that the premise of your action -- i.e., that ALL such machines could/should be "fixed" because they have the proper connectors -- is incorrect.
Notwithstanding that there will be no retroactive remedy to this issue, I wish you good luck in your quest.
First of all I expect Lenovo to install the fan for every X61 notebook that *has* the connector and the heat problem. Is this sounds so far fetched to you? As I've wrote in a the original thread at Lenovo Community, the other owners could be compensated in other ways.
I didn't wrote the Softpedia article, and your cynical remarks about people in hospitals, is completely out of place. No one got hurt here, but people are very uncomfortable working with their X61 notebook because of the heat - and that should be fixed.
Unless you are not Lenovo's CEO/CFO/shareholder, I fail to see why you care so much about how the company is going to handle this and how much it's going to cost. the company has a heat problem in X61 notebooks and it should get solved.
I hope we can solve this quickly and painlessly, but if Lenovo will insist, trust me that there are ways to force even a large company like Lenovo. Lenovo had made product recalls in the past, and it would do it again. But surely it won't do it from its own free will, unless forced to by consumers or by the court.
I appreciate your right to buy a defective product and be happy with it. But for myself I think I've paid enough to get a top notch product. I've read stories about users that pulled out their wireless card out from their X61 and are using a USB adapter. That's ridiculous!
I think that every if everyone will stop accepting major faults in the products, and stand on their rights, companies will think twice before releasing such products to the market.
I didn't wrote the Softpedia article, and your cynical remarks about people in hospitals, is completely out of place. No one got hurt here, but people are very uncomfortable working with their X61 notebook because of the heat - and that should be fixed.
Unless you are not Lenovo's CEO/CFO/shareholder, I fail to see why you care so much about how the company is going to handle this and how much it's going to cost. the company has a heat problem in X61 notebooks and it should get solved.
I hope we can solve this quickly and painlessly, but if Lenovo will insist, trust me that there are ways to force even a large company like Lenovo. Lenovo had made product recalls in the past, and it would do it again. But surely it won't do it from its own free will, unless forced to by consumers or by the court.
I appreciate your right to buy a defective product and be happy with it. But for myself I think I've paid enough to get a top notch product. I've read stories about users that pulled out their wireless card out from their X61 and are using a USB adapter. That's ridiculous!
I think that every if everyone will stop accepting major faults in the products, and stand on their rights, companies will think twice before releasing such products to the market.
Lenovo already acknowledged that some of the X61 models have the connector. You are right, not all of them have it, but I hope the problem can be solved step by step.
First of all, if any customer with the connector, Lenovo can offer to install the fan. That's isn't supposed to be something outrageous to ask. I really don't mind Lenovo costs/expenses/time or anything else on this heat problem. Why should I? My only concern is to be able to work on my notebook as I planned to do when I bought it.
As for the other models, we hope that Lenovo will understand that getting it's customers satisfied is it's prime concern as a company that want to keep selling computers. I believe that are really bright people there (and I say this with genuine respect to the company), that will figure out how to solve it. Again, it's their concern, not mine. I, or any other customer, want a solution not excuses.
Some people may disagree with this request from Lenovo, and say "this is hopeless", "we stuck with this notebook" and "that there is nothing we can do about it".
I second that: there always something to do about anything. And I won't give up without even trying.
@HarryC:
Totally agreed.
First of all, if any customer with the connector, Lenovo can offer to install the fan. That's isn't supposed to be something outrageous to ask. I really don't mind Lenovo costs/expenses/time or anything else on this heat problem. Why should I? My only concern is to be able to work on my notebook as I planned to do when I bought it.
As for the other models, we hope that Lenovo will understand that getting it's customers satisfied is it's prime concern as a company that want to keep selling computers. I believe that are really bright people there (and I say this with genuine respect to the company), that will figure out how to solve it. Again, it's their concern, not mine. I, or any other customer, want a solution not excuses.
Some people may disagree with this request from Lenovo, and say "this is hopeless", "we stuck with this notebook" and "that there is nothing we can do about it".
I second that: there always something to do about anything. And I won't give up without even trying.
@HarryC:
Totally agreed.
-
ajkula66
- SuperUserGeorge
- Posts: 15741
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
- Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania
@ColMaki:
I'll gladly sign your petition even though my ThinkPad collection doesn't include a X60. But please bear the following in mind:
a) Don't raise your hopes up to high. X6x generation of laptops is nearing the end of its production life, and not all models have been affected with the (very real) issue that you're referring to.
b) Numerous issues in the past (just let me know how far you want me to go, and I'll do so) haven't been addressed/corrected by IBM or Lenovo. And some of them were as serious-if not more-than the one you are complaining about.
My advice to all X60 owners is the one I've posted on Lenovo's forum: use the software available to undervolt machine and/or control the fan. Or get rid of the cause of the pain itself, and buy another laptop.
Softipedia article, with all its inconsistencies/misinformations, will do your effort more harm than good IMHO.
Best of luck fighting the windmills and feel free to let me know if I can be of any help. Seriously.
I'll gladly sign your petition even though my ThinkPad collection doesn't include a X60. But please bear the following in mind:
a) Don't raise your hopes up to high. X6x generation of laptops is nearing the end of its production life, and not all models have been affected with the (very real) issue that you're referring to.
b) Numerous issues in the past (just let me know how far you want me to go, and I'll do so) haven't been addressed/corrected by IBM or Lenovo. And some of them were as serious-if not more-than the one you are complaining about.
My advice to all X60 owners is the one I've posted on Lenovo's forum: use the software available to undervolt machine and/or control the fan. Or get rid of the cause of the pain itself, and buy another laptop.
Softipedia article, with all its inconsistencies/misinformations, will do your effort more harm than good IMHO.
Best of luck fighting the windmills and feel free to let me know if I can be of any help. Seriously.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF
Abused daily: T61p
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF
Abused daily: T61p
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
@ajkula66:
Thank you for your kind words. Let me just just correct you, we are talking only about the X61.
We know that Lenovo fixed the heat issue by a thermal foam, new air vents on the right side and the extra fan. Because this line is at the end of production all the problems should been ironed out, not stay.
I think that when the X61 released there wasn't a need for the extra fan since the problem was fixed. But then came the models with the Penryn processors and the wireless cards with the N connection. That got the problem back again and why Lenovo is insisting on not installing those extra fan (in the models they can) is beyond my understanding.
regarding b: please do. take the most serious issues with the X61 models.
I think that today using publicity is all we've got. If I can't solve my problem I want other customers to know about it. paypalsucks is a great example.
Edit:
well, it seems that Lenovo banned me from it's forums. That's after I've requested the list of models that can accommodate the extra fan, so that users will be able to decide if they want to purchase them. I think that is a fair request.
anyway, I'll continue to update on this matter .
Thank you for your kind words. Let me just just correct you, we are talking only about the X61.
We know that Lenovo fixed the heat issue by a thermal foam, new air vents on the right side and the extra fan. Because this line is at the end of production all the problems should been ironed out, not stay.
I think that when the X61 released there wasn't a need for the extra fan since the problem was fixed. But then came the models with the Penryn processors and the wireless cards with the N connection. That got the problem back again and why Lenovo is insisting on not installing those extra fan (in the models they can) is beyond my understanding.
regarding b: please do. take the most serious issues with the X61 models.
I think that today using publicity is all we've got. If I can't solve my problem I want other customers to know about it. paypalsucks is a great example.
Edit:
well, it seems that Lenovo banned me from it's forums. That's after I've requested the list of models that can accommodate the extra fan, so that users will be able to decide if they want to purchase them. I think that is a fair request.
anyway, I'll continue to update on this matter .
-
ajkula66
- SuperUserGeorge
- Posts: 15741
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
- Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania
@ColMaki:
A couple of things here:
1) I apologize if the "b" section of my previous post has been misunderstood. My point was that historically there were quite a few issues that IBM and Lenovo chose to claim ignorance about, and do nothing, or next to nothing about them, not implying that I'm going to do any new blogging about these...I've written plenty of stuff both here and on Lenovo's forum about them.
2) I'm sorry to hear that you've been banned from Lenovo's forum. Speaking from a strictly strategic point of view, asking THEM what the model numbers that could accommodate the second fan were was not a good idea. You could've compiled that info yourself, while retaining the ability to post there.
3) As much as I appreciate your effort, I've got to tell you that if I were running Lenovo's forum (which they can't pay Mark Hopkins enough for, whatever his salary/bonus/stock options may be) you'd be long gone prior to today, along with several other people who posted there. They are the ones paying for the site. They make the rules. If any of us don't like it, we can refrain from posting. If they don't like something I've posted I can be banned from the site, but that would be it. Mark, and a couple of other guys have their jobs on the line running that show, and they'll pull the trigger on someone rather than risk having the trigger being pulled on them, it's really that simple. You've been cut quite some slack prior to this last move IMHO.
4) Where do we go from here? Personally, I doubt that you'll get anywhere with Lenovo, but if you start 67 petitions on 67 different sites (which would be a waste, but just to make my point clear) I'll gladly sign all 67 of them. Here are the options the way I see them:
a) Contact someone like troubadix to customize the existing ThinkPad Fan Control specifically for X61 units, and see where that gets you.
b) Throw your X61 on eBay and purchase another laptop...better yet take up Lenovo on their refund offer.
c) Explore other cooling options that may or may not be out there.
I wish you the very best of luck regardless of the path you choose to take from this point on.
A couple of things here:
1) I apologize if the "b" section of my previous post has been misunderstood. My point was that historically there were quite a few issues that IBM and Lenovo chose to claim ignorance about, and do nothing, or next to nothing about them, not implying that I'm going to do any new blogging about these...I've written plenty of stuff both here and on Lenovo's forum about them.
2) I'm sorry to hear that you've been banned from Lenovo's forum. Speaking from a strictly strategic point of view, asking THEM what the model numbers that could accommodate the second fan were was not a good idea. You could've compiled that info yourself, while retaining the ability to post there.
3) As much as I appreciate your effort, I've got to tell you that if I were running Lenovo's forum (which they can't pay Mark Hopkins enough for, whatever his salary/bonus/stock options may be) you'd be long gone prior to today, along with several other people who posted there. They are the ones paying for the site. They make the rules. If any of us don't like it, we can refrain from posting. If they don't like something I've posted I can be banned from the site, but that would be it. Mark, and a couple of other guys have their jobs on the line running that show, and they'll pull the trigger on someone rather than risk having the trigger being pulled on them, it's really that simple. You've been cut quite some slack prior to this last move IMHO.
4) Where do we go from here? Personally, I doubt that you'll get anywhere with Lenovo, but if you start 67 petitions on 67 different sites (which would be a waste, but just to make my point clear) I'll gladly sign all 67 of them. Here are the options the way I see them:
a) Contact someone like troubadix to customize the existing ThinkPad Fan Control specifically for X61 units, and see where that gets you.
b) Throw your X61 on eBay and purchase another laptop...better yet take up Lenovo on their refund offer.
c) Explore other cooling options that may or may not be out there.
I wish you the very best of luck regardless of the path you choose to take from this point on.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF
Abused daily: T61p
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF
Abused daily: T61p
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
I did that.ColMaki wrote:Edit:
well, it seems that Lenovo banned me from it's forums.
Mark presented a very reasonable roadmap to follow to get your personal situation resolved. You threw it back in his face and continued to try to stir things up in their own forum. What did you expect the mod team to do?
You're right - I should have shut the thread down as soon as I saw it. I'm getting soft!ajkula66 wrote:You've been cut quite some slack prior to this last move IMHO.
Jane
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
When I saw Mark message, I've pm'ed him and apologized for any inconvenience I've caused him. If it wasn't clear enough, than I would like to stress out that I want to solve this matter WITH Lenovo and not AGAINST Lenovo.
Again, If my intention was misunderstood then I hope this correction will set things straight. Actually after Lancelot message on the forum, I've waited to see what answers he will get from the technical support.
But with all due respect, up to this point I fail to understand why Lenovo is not more cooperative on the matter. I've asked Mark to publish the model numbers that have the fan connectors. That's all.
This information is not supposed to be classified. If someone has the proper chassis and the connector for the fan, I just ask the company to give the customers the option to install the fan. That's all.
I'm not asking for a product recall, not to build the laptop from scratch, just to utilize an option that is already out there for some. I've also posted (and got deleted) that I know there will not be a solution for everyone, but solution for some will be great.
I don't think that supplying this kind of information and this option to valuable customers is so out of reach for a company like Lenovo. Lenovo can say "We don't think there is a problem, but since we have the option, if customers want it we will be happy to provide them that".
I think that even if you don't suffer from the problem, many will be happy to install something that will reduce heat on the X61. Again, I'm looking to solve this quietly and nicely.
@ajkula66:
Thank you for your inspiring words!
I respect the forum rules here and in Lenovo forums, and the ban is not the issue here. I think that if company want a direct connection with it's customer via forums, blogs and such, than it should really be able to listen to their complaints and solve them. Otherwise, I fail to see the benefit of all this efforts.
Again, If my intention was misunderstood then I hope this correction will set things straight. Actually after Lancelot message on the forum, I've waited to see what answers he will get from the technical support.
But with all due respect, up to this point I fail to understand why Lenovo is not more cooperative on the matter. I've asked Mark to publish the model numbers that have the fan connectors. That's all.
This information is not supposed to be classified. If someone has the proper chassis and the connector for the fan, I just ask the company to give the customers the option to install the fan. That's all.
I'm not asking for a product recall, not to build the laptop from scratch, just to utilize an option that is already out there for some. I've also posted (and got deleted) that I know there will not be a solution for everyone, but solution for some will be great.
I don't think that supplying this kind of information and this option to valuable customers is so out of reach for a company like Lenovo. Lenovo can say "We don't think there is a problem, but since we have the option, if customers want it we will be happy to provide them that".
I think that even if you don't suffer from the problem, many will be happy to install something that will reduce heat on the X61. Again, I'm looking to solve this quietly and nicely.
@ajkula66:
Thank you for your inspiring words!
I respect the forum rules here and in Lenovo forums, and the ban is not the issue here. I think that if company want a direct connection with it's customer via forums, blogs and such, than it should really be able to listen to their complaints and solve them. Otherwise, I fail to see the benefit of all this efforts.
ColMak, some advice ... with all due respect, public forum exposure is not the right way to get a company to change it's product design. I am not sure I understand the right way, but I've been around long enough to tell you that this is not it. You will not be successful using this method. George was basically giving the same advice. Large companies usually only respond to litigation from individuals. (period). Again, with all due respect, while a great guy, Mark is a small player in the grand scheme of things at Lenovo. Even he cannot move mountains ...
You should also be aware that there is a huge IBM/Lenovo fan base here. You are basically preaching to the choir, if you catch my drift ... You need to preach to the people who can make a difference. If you are serious about this, consult with an attorney and see if there is any chance it will fly in a court case.
You should also be aware that there is a huge IBM/Lenovo fan base here. You are basically preaching to the choir, if you catch my drift ... You need to preach to the people who can make a difference. If you are serious about this, consult with an attorney and see if there is any chance it will fly in a court case.
@HarryC:
Appreciate the comment.
I really not trying to change a product line, just to be able to order a spare part. Maybe I'm naive, and forgive me for asking, but why is this considered as moving mountains or fighting windmills? adding an extra fan should be that difficult?
And I' know exactly where I'm - and I love it. I think that what makes us love the Thinkpads is their durability and the options for customizing them. Being able to replace each part with a different part and the machine still works.
I got your drift, but in the mean time I think that company offered me a direct connection to the them. I'm sure there are senior members of the company that read their forums. If it won't work,
I'll find other ways to reach them.
Appreciate the comment.
I really not trying to change a product line, just to be able to order a spare part. Maybe I'm naive, and forgive me for asking, but why is this considered as moving mountains or fighting windmills? adding an extra fan should be that difficult?
And I' know exactly where I'm - and I love it. I think that what makes us love the Thinkpads is their durability and the options for customizing them. Being able to replace each part with a different part and the machine still works.
I got your drift, but in the mean time I think that company offered me a direct connection to the them. I'm sure there are senior members of the company that read their forums. If it won't work,
I'll find other ways to reach them.
Really? Didn't look like that to me. If that's truly all you're after, then check eBay or the Boulder parts center, have the FRU number and your credit card ready.ColMaki wrote:I really not trying to change a product line, just to be able to order a spare part.
Jane
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
Thanks for the tip. I think it would be helpful to users not under warranty. The part number is 42X3806. There is also a second fan for low profile systems and its number is 42X4687. but in all my searches it appears as an LCD, not a second fan.
For the complete list of models that the second fan fit you can look at page 179 of the Hardware maintenance manual:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62866.html
Personally, for less than 3 weeks old notebook, I'd rather have it serviced by Lenovo and get an original part straight from the company. If I can install it - so can Lenovo.
Call me naive and stupid but I didn't spent so much money to start looking for necessary notebook parts on eBay.
For the complete list of models that the second fan fit you can look at page 179 of the Hardware maintenance manual:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 62866.html
Personally, for less than 3 weeks old notebook, I'd rather have it serviced by Lenovo and get an original part straight from the company. If I can install it - so can Lenovo.
Call me naive and stupid but I didn't spent so much money to start looking for necessary notebook parts on eBay.
Ah, you're not really looking for a solution, then. You just want to bend Lenovo to your will. I think this thread has now run its course.
Jane
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
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