Looks like my new W500 has a cooling problem.

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awolfe63 · #1 Post by **awolfe63** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:48 pm

I tried running a game on it for the first time today for an hour or so. The CPU heated up to 80C then would repeatedly throttle back from 2.8GHz to 2.13GHz.

One would think that a W500 could run full-out in an air-conditioned room indefinitely. I'll bet I have a bad fan or a bad heat sink. I had this on a new T42 once (only that one would actually crash when it got hot).

Anyone else try to see whether their W500 or T500 can run full speed for an extended period?

tzcomwiz · #2 Post by **tzcomwiz** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:18 am

What game was it? I don't think anyone else has yet received the W500/T500 to provide any feedback.

awolfe63 · #3 Post by **awolfe63** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:53 pm

It was Civilization IV Beyond the Sword - but today, I was able to make it happen just running prime95. CPU temperature creeps up to 95C then the CPU speed throttled down. Ambient is 22.4C.

This does not seem right.

Marin85 · #4 Post by **Marin85** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:18 am

What power management profile do you use while playing? If I need max performance, I always create my own max performance profile. From my own experience I cannot entirely trust the built-in profiles from Lenovo for what they are supposed to manage

Marin

dickeywang · #5 Post by **dickeywang** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:17 am

I am sorry to hear that.

I once had overheating problem on my old T60 (200766U) and the GPU went as high as 105C. It turned out that they forgot to tear off the plastic layer on the thermal compound.

awolfe63 · #6 Post by **awolfe63** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:44 am

Marin85 wrote:What power management profile do you use while playing? If I need max performance, I always create my own max performance profile. From my own experience I cannot entirely trust the built-in profiles from Lenovo for what they are supposed to manage

Marin

I was using the built-in max performance for that - but it should not matter. The machine should not overheat at room temperature, no matter what the settings.

awolfe63 · #7 Post by **awolfe63** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:46 am

dickeywang wrote:I am sorry to hear that.

I once had overheating problem on my old T60 (200766U) and the GPU went as high as 105C. It turned out that they forgot to tear off the plastic layer on the thermal compound.

I think that was the problem on my old T42 as well. I'm not going to open this one up and look though - I'll call Lenovo later and let them figure it out. The fan never gets loud - it might not be turning up.

Does anyone know of a fan speed display utility that works on Thinkpads?

tzcomwiz · #8 Post by **tzcomwiz** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:28 pm

speedfan?

Marin85 · #9 Post by **Marin85** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:02 pm

@awolfe63: But how have you concluded that your W500 overheats? If so, your ThinkPad would shut down or the like, right?

Marin

awolfe63 · #10 Post by **awolfe63** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:07 pm

The old machines shut down. The newer ones drop their clock rate. Mine drops from 2.8GHz to 2.13 - even though CPU speed is sent to max.

awolfe63 · #11 Post by **awolfe63** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:47 pm

On its way back to Lenovo. I'll let everyone know what happens.

eecon · #12 Post by **eecon** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:30 pm

awolfe63 wrote:On its way back to Lenovo. I'll let everyone know what happens.

Thanks for the update. I cancelled a T61 order placed a few days ago and have a custom configured W500 P9500 25W 2.53Mhz quote ready to convert to an order (through my university faculty program). It comes with 3 years onsite, but I think I'll up it to 5 years onsite for an extra 160 bucks if your experience is any sign of things to come.

awolfe63 · #13 Post by **awolfe63** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:56 pm

Do what you think is best - but I think I'm just seeing some birthing pains from this product line. From the serial number - I suspect that mine is the 16th U.S. production machine. The nice ladies that built it probably hadn't even had their first cup of coffee yet.

dr_st · #14 Post by **dr_st** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:05 am

eecon wrote:It comes with 3 years onsite, but I think I'll up it to 5 years onsite for an extra 160 bucks if your experience is any sign of things to come.

That's totally irrelevant. If you think you will care enough about this machine three years from now to justify a 5-year warranty, you should just get it. There is no correlation whatsoever between issues one sees on a new machine and issues machines develop after 3 years.

eecon · #15 Post by **eecon** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:11 am

dr_st wrote:That's totally irrelevant. If you think you will care enough about this machine three years from now to justify a 5-year warranty, you should just get it. There is no correlation whatsoever between issues one sees on a new machine and issues machines develop after 3 years.

I agree .... On second thought, I'm not thinking clearly tonight.

But, as my better half just suggested, the extra 160 bucks for 5 years might not be a bad investment should I ever decide to offer the unit up for sale in 3 or 4 years

ZPrime · #16 Post by **ZPrime** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:28 pm

Now you have me scared. I have a brand new W500 as well, but I'm still screwing around getting the OS and software config that I want on it.

Anyone know if Access Connections, Battery utility, and fingerprint reader work on Vista 64-bit?

#17 Post by **erik** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:01 pm

ZPrime wrote:Anyone know if Access Connections, Battery utility, and fingerprint reader work on Vista 64-bit?

all three have worked under x64 for over 1.5 years.

ZPrime · #18 Post by **ZPrime** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:18 pm

erik wrote:
ZPrime wrote:Anyone know if Access Connections, Battery utility, and fingerprint reader work on Vista 64-bit?
all three have worked under x64 for over 1.5 years.

Weird. Software Update (TVSU) on the W500 doesn't think they are options to install. Time to go mess around.

Thanks!

awolfe63 · #19 Post by **awolfe63** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:43 pm

Unbelievable!

Lenovo returned my machine with a note that says that this is Normal.

They claim that hitting the thermal limiter at 95C is normal for a W500. What a rotten design.

Anybody else get a chance to try one?

basketb · #20 Post by **basketb** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:00 pm

This is really disappointing news.

Icefang · #21 Post by **Icefang** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:15 pm

That is rediculous. I would just return the laptop and buy something else. I have a T61P which I have used extensively in gaming and it gets so hot that it actually got uncomfortable after an hour or two playing AoC. However the laptop worked fine the whole time. It honestly seems like the W500 is a step backwards from the T61P. I have a T60P and a T61P and was looking at getting a W500 or W700 but if down clocking the CPU is normal behavior, my next laptop will be from somewhere else.

eecon · #22 Post by **eecon** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:28 pm

awolfe63 wrote:Unbelievable!

Lenovo returned my machine with a note that says that this is Normal.

They claim that hitting the thermal limiter at 95C is normal for a W500. What a rotten design.

Anybody else get a chance to try one?

Incredible .... this certainly delays acting on my quotes in hand.

This is also another arguement in favor of upgrading to onsite repair .... you can verbally abuse the technician into trying a bit harder to solve the issue .... there are tons of postings on this and other forums about recent declines in the service and integrity of Lenovo's depot service contractors within the U.S.

awolfe63 · #23 Post by **awolfe63** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:26 pm

I agree - this would have been much better with on-site.

I finally tracked down someone at Lenovo who could read me the actual case notes. They seem to have just run simple diagnostics and decided that nothing was wrong. Their note to me also said that they read my description and reviewed my screen shots showing overheating and decided that it was normal. I now think that what they were trying to tell me is that they could not duplicate the problem.

Here is what I have learned from further testing:

1) To get the machine to overheat requires running both cores at 100%. I'm not sure standard diagnostics do that.

2) In my office (23C ambient), it only overheats on the dock. Worse on the Advanced Minidock than on the Advanced Dock. Stand alone it gets to 92-93C - but not 95C. Who knows what would happen if the room were 28C?

3) It seems to be getting better (longer to heat up). I have heard of heat sink compound "setting up" That may be happening.

I'm hoping that someone else will get a machine and run some tests for comparison. Then I can decide what to do next.

eecon · #24 Post by **eecon** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:50 pm

awolfe63 wrote:I'm hoping that someone else will get a machine and run some tests for comparison. Then I can decide what to do next.

Now I'm wondering if a similarily configured T500 with the 256Mb HD3650 and it's slighlty different video drivers would run cooler?

basketb · #25 Post by **basketb** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:30 pm

awolfe63 wrote:...
3) It seems to be getting better (longer to heat up). I have heard of heat sink compound "setting up" That may be happening.
...

Have you thought about opening up the machine and see what kind of compound they are using and replacing it with something better (e.g., AS5)

eecon · #26 Post by **eecon** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:36 pm

basketb wrote:Have you thought about opening up the machine and see what kind of compound they are using and replacing it with something better (e.g., AS5)

Agreed ..... I hate to sound like a Monday morning QB and piling on, but the onsite tech would have done that if asked. Having some hi-performance compound on-hand just in case they did not might also be a good game plan (if I ever do buy a W500 .... which is starting to look unlikey right now).

awolfe63 · #27 Post by **awolfe63** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:18 pm

basketb wrote:
awolfe63 wrote:...
3) It seems to be getting better (longer to heat up). I have heard of heat sink compound "setting up" That may be happening.
...
Have you thought about opening up the machine and see what kind of compound they are using and replacing it with something better (e.g., AS5)

Absolutely - but I was hoping to see if this was an isolated problem or if everyone's was like this first.

I've had better luck with depot service in the past. On-site is probably better now.

awolfe63 · #28 Post by **awolfe63** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:46 pm

Well - I decided to go ahead and do an Arctic Silver 5 treatment. It helped. Temperatures are down 5-6C at full load. That keeps me within spec and seems to prevent hitting the thermal limit at room temperature. It may improve a bit more as the heat sink compound sets.

BTW - this is the first thinkpad I've torn open since the T4x series. Disassembly is much simpler - not as many tricky plastic parts interlocked together. But - many of the inside parts look really cheap. Lots of stuff is held down with tape.

eecon · #29 Post by **eecon** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:01 pm

awolfe63 wrote:Well - I decided to go ahead and do an Arctic Silver 5 treatment. It helped. Temperatures are down 5-6C at full load. That keeps me within spec and seems to prevent hitting the thermal limit at room temperature. It may improve a bit more as the heat sink compound sets.

BTW - this is the first thinkpad I've torn open since the T4x series. Disassembly is much simpler - not as many tricky plastic parts interlocked together. But - many of the inside parts look really cheap. Lots of stuff is held down with tape.

Great news about your new lower temps

Sad to hear about the internal quality built though

madkat · #30 Post by **madkat** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:06 am

some pics of the inner guts?

Looks like my new W500 has a cooling problem.

Looks like my new W500 has a cooling problem.

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