X61s vs. X200s

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leesiulung · #1 Post by **leesiulung** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:16 pm

I didn't see thread like this, but I'm getting a new laptop to replace my aging, well loved and now cracked X31.

I can't for the life of me decide between the X200s and the X61s.. I'm basing my decision on the X200 for the X200s, assuming most are similar. There are far too many improvements on the X200, but the X61s screen and dimension is too good.

I intend to use this laptop for a lot of on the road traveling and programming (i.e. Java programming using eclipse IDE, some Visual Studio with C# and some web development). I have always used standard aspect ratio (4:3) on all my screens, and have no idea how effective widescreen is for my type of use (or programming)..

Anyone care to weigh in their experience?

My thoughts are

**** X61s ****
Pros:
- Laptop size is perfect
- Screen size is larger than X200s
- No ugly lip around the screen
- A little cheaper than X200s (about 10-15%)

Cons:
- Laptop runs hotter than X200
- Have the hot right palm rest issue
- Wide screen is nicer with Vista (I like the widgets on the side) and the X200 has overall higher resolution vertically and horizontally

**** X200s ****
Pros:
- Excellent screen (LED)
- Higher Resolution vertically and horizontally (ideal wide screen setup). More software is taking advantage of the wide screen now....
- Better customization option right now over X61s
- Faster processor that runs cooler
- Better sound (?)
- Faster graphics chip! (can it run Starcraft 2?)
- Digital output with Display port i.e. ability to output to DVI

Cons:
- Only an inch wider, but still I don't like the form factor i.e. size of laptop
- huge ugly lip around screen (major for me, because it is always in my face to remind me)
- small screen size compared to X61s (almost an inch lost vertically and only a gain of half an inch horizontally)
- higher cost than X61s

By the way, I searched but surprised there wasn't a thread like this already.

#2 Post by **erik** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:49 pm

leesiulung wrote:I have always used standard aspect ratio (4:3) on all my screens, and have no idea how effective widescreen is for my type of use (or programming)..

the X61s is 1024x768 where the X200s is 1440x900. at that rate you shouldn't worry about 4:3 vs. 8:5 since the X200s has more resolution in both directions.

leesiulung · #3 Post by **leesiulung** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:17 pm

I thought the X200s is 1280x800. Is the X200s still a 12.1" LCD?

sugo · #4 Post by **sugo** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:53 pm

leesiulung wrote:I thought the X200s is 1280x800. Is the X200s still a 12.1" LCD?

X200s has two LCD options. One is 1280x800 another one is 1440x900. Both are 12.1" 16:10 wide aspect ratio.

TimWang · #5 Post by **TimWang** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:33 am

get the x200s... there's no reason to spend lots of money on old technology. Unless of course you can get a great discount (50% or more)

dr_st · #6 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:22 am

erik wrote:the X61s is 1024x768 where the X200s is 1440x900. at that rate you shouldn't worry about 4:3 vs. 8:5 since the X200s has more resolution in both directions.

But not more size. And when you want to display a PDF using "Fit Width" or "Fit Page", it's the physical size and aspect that matters, not the number of pixels. I know quite a few people who like to stretch their documents full screen while viewing them. On a widescreen, it becomes too wide to be comfortable, and at the same time requires more horizontal scrolling to get through the whole text.

denisky · #7 Post by **denisky** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 am

I would choose X200s because Lenovo has put the coloured stripes back on the trackpoint buttons.

mattbiernat · #8 Post by **mattbiernat** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:20 pm

TimWang wrote:get the x200s... there's no reason to spend lots of money on old technology. Unless of course you can get a great discount (50% or more)

unless old technology is more reliable and tested than the new one

#9 Post by **archer6** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:27 pm

leesiulung wrote:I intend to use this laptop for a lot of on the road traveling and programming (i.e. Java programming using eclipse IDE, some Visual Studio with C# and some web development). I have always used standard aspect ratio (4:3) on all my screens, and have no idea how effective widescreen is for my type of use (or programming)..

Anyone care to weigh in their experience?

First of all Thanks!
For creating this thread, and your stellar post which touched on a lot of great points. As someone who uses a ThinkPad everyday, as my main computer and make my living doing a variety of programming / 3D design work, and many other types of work, I carry two ThinkPads with me at all times. The nature of my work is such that I travel and thus carry both a T60p workstation, and an X60s. That said, I'm also a hard core laptop addict and have a veritable museum of ThinkPads, as I've kept every one I've purchased (30+) in the last decade. I stay up to the minute on everything ThinkPad, I'm not bragging or suggesting that I'm the all time expert, but rather humbly giving a bit of background so you know what my point of reference is when evaluating a new model. When I carefully read your post, and put myself in your position, there is just one model that I would choose without hesitation, and that is the X61s. As far as timing is concerned, if you can wait a bit, I believe that based on past patterns I have observed when new models are released, that you will see X61s prices drop to a point where you will be in a position to get a very good deal, in the not too distant future. Good Luck!

Cheers

bigscreen · #10 Post by **bigscreen** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:37 pm

I just replaced my aging X32 with an X200 this weekend and I am very happy with the decision. The X60/61 series has much improved over the old X40/41 series, but the missing digital video output was still a dealbreaker for me. I used the X32 as a desktop replacement with a dock II that contained an external graphics card to drive my 27" screen via DVI. It worked...

The X200 is a huge improvement in all terms. It is with 2.26GHz and 4GB RAM reasonably faster than the X32 with a 2GHz Pentium 1 and 1.5GB RAM, but not as much as I expected it to be. On the other hand, it runs Vista while the X32 ran XP. External display with 1920 x 1200 via DisplayPort-2-DVI is perfect and fast enough for business means as well as movies (no gaming).

The X200 also runs mostly silent and stays cool, while the X32 became extremely hot, sometimes close to shutdown. Whether the X200 stays that silent... we'll see. Its anchestor was quiet too when it was new but started to become noisy over time.

Battery life is a huge improvement. I've got a standard 6-cell and an additional spare battery with 9 cells. The 6 cell is just perfect: it delivers about the same run time as the X32 delivered when it was new (was also a 6-cell). And the 6 cell doesn't stick out at the back - something that I always found annoying with the X4/X6 series.

Widescreen is another big plus for me. I have gotten used to widescreen displays and the internal display is just smaller, but has the same aspect ratio. The 1280 x 800 resolution is just fine for a display this size. I really appreciate the additional 25% horizontal space over the X32. The 1024x768 size was slightly too narrow for my taste. If Lenovo squeezed a 12.5" display into it (presumed that size was available), I'd like to have a higher resolution. At 12" it's perfectly right for my eyesight (average, no glasses).

The second best thing to the new Pentium 2 CPU and DisplayPort on the Ultrabase (which was the reason I ordered it immediately) is, however, the full-size keyboard! All X3/X4/X6 series had a slightly smaller keyboard. The full-size keyboard on the X200 does make a difference! It's the same size and quality as my other T41. It's easier to type on, causing less touch typing errors.

My conclusion: go for an X200 or X200s, it's the right upgrade for an X31. I recommend it.

#11 Post by **archer6** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:25 pm

bigscreen wrote:I just replaced my aging X32 with an X200 this weekend and I am very happy with the decision. Widescreen is another big plus for me. The second best thing is the full-size keyboard! All X3/X4/X6 series had a slightly smaller keyboard.

Congratulations on your new ThinkPad!
Great to hear that it meets your needs so well. This is just one of the many reasons I've always preferred ThinkPads, there's a model for everyone. For those that do like the widescreen, I've been told by my friends that have them on their ThinkPads that they are very even in the back lighting as compared to other brands. Anyway, enjoy yours and thanks for the report!

Cheers...

Puppy · #12 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:28 am

I prefer the smaller X31 keyboard size over full keyboard. Yes, the 1440x900 screen resolution of X200s is interesting but I fear the display quality will be extremly poor as all new Lenovo models exhibits.

leesiulung · #13 Post by **leesiulung** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:15 am

I'm excited to see so many posts about this. I still can't make up my mind, but certainly lean a little more towards getting an X200s now.

Although, I can't get over the smaller screen (albeit with higher resolution that should make it more straining on the eyes) and the thick lip around it as a reminder. I do wonder how much of an improvement LED screens are. Anyone have one and can weigh in?

rsyed · #14 Post by **rsyed** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:34 pm

if you are right handed, and you love your hand, then I would go for the x200. If the x61s behaves like my x61, you will be burning your right hand due to the extreme heat generated on the palm rest. I use my lapi 10-12 hours a day and it is seriously not bearable...

dfumento · #15 Post by **dfumento** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:10 pm

rsyed wrote:if you are right handed, and you love your hand, then I would go for the x200. If the x61s behaves like my x61, you will be burning your right hand due to the extreme heat generated on the palm rest. I use my lapi 10-12 hours a day and it is seriously not bearable...

I have an X61s which today I've used all day (I'm 7 hours ahead of Eastern Time for now) and it is barely warm while using wireless WiFi.

#16 Post by **archer6** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:34 pm

bigscreen wrote:All X3/X4/X6 series had a slightly smaller keyboard.

There is only a 3% difference in size, barely detectable.
For clarification, working with _facts_ the X60 / X61 series keyboards are exactly 97% of full size, as compared to the T60 / 61 series. This is not my estimate, it is a fact.
As taken direct from the Lenovo personal systems reference book below:

89-key, standard-size 97% size of T Series 18.5mm pitch, 2.5mm stroke
Take it from someone with large hands, that spends 8 to 10 hours per day on an X60s, the keyboard is every bit as easy to use as that on my T60p.
Source:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/webdoc ... tabook.pdf

#17 Post by **archer6** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:37 pm

rsyed wrote:if you are right handed, and you love your hand, then I would go for the x200. If the x61s behaves like my x61, you will be burning your right hand due to the extreme heat generated on the palm rest. I use my lapi 10-12 hours a day and it is seriously not bearable...

You have a defective computer.
I have both an X60s and an X61, both of which run very cool, after 10 hours of constant usage. Not even warm to the touch. I would have yours looked at.

pianowizard · #18 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:54 am

archer6 wrote:
bigscreen wrote:All X3/X4/X6 series had a slightly smaller keyboard.
There is only a 3% difference in size, barely detectable.
For clarification, working with _facts_ the X60 / X61 series keyboards are exactly 97% of full size, as compared to the T60 / 61 series. This is not my estimate, it is a fact...Take it from someone with large hands, that spends 8 to 10 hours per day on an X60s, the keyboard is every bit as easy to use as that on my T60p.

3% does sound negligible but I do notice a significant difference between X4* and T-series keyboards. It's possible it refers to the one-dimensional difference. Converted into area, it becomes 94.1%, i.e. 6% difference. I wish I could measure it myself but I no longer own an X4*.

I'm glad that you don't notice much difference, but bigscreen does and so do I even though my hands are fairly small. As you can see in in thread, I've owned quite a few X-series. I tried very hard to like them but kept failing, and one of the reasons was their slightly smaller keyboards. (Though the main reasons were the low resolution and heavy weight.) Many of us can have very sensitive nervous systems. For instance, to me, the 2.47-lb X200s is much heavier than the 2.2-lb Dell Latitude E4200.

Back to this thread: While I have only seen the X61s but not the X200s, I'm pretty sure I would like the latter much more, and it's probably going to suit the OP's needs better.

leesiulung · #19 Post by **leesiulung** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:36 am

Right now the price difference is about $300 between a X200 and X61s. I'm hoping the X61s will fall further in price before it get's phased out and I will pick up one. Otherwise, I will just probably wait until the X200s falls in price.

Although I spent $2000 on my X31, it is getting harder and harder to justify the big price difference between a Thinkpad and a el-cheapo Dell that if wanted I could upgrade every year instead.

My thinking now is, is the X200s 1440x900 on 12.1 widescreen going to be small to look at? I mean at 1280x800 it appear to be small already.... extended time in front of a small screen straining to see is not good on my poor sight.

pianowizard · #20 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:48 am

leesiulung wrote:Otherwise, I will just probably wait until the X200s falls in price.

It would be a pretty long wait. Because the X200s is so new, I think it will be excluded from all coupons for 3 months or more. At least that was true for the X300 when it was new. An option that's worth considering is picking up a cheap X31 (or X40 or X2* or even a non-Thinkpad ultraportable) to tide you over.

leesiulung wrote:My thinking now is, is the X200s 1440x900 on 12.1 widescreen going to be small to look at?

Your X31 has 105.8 dots per inch. 1280x800 on 12.1" has 124.7 DPI, and 1440x900 has 140.3. So yes, it will be noticeably smaller. But I read that the X200s will have a 1280x800 option later.

Jackboot · #21 Post by **Jackboot** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:12 pm

pianowizard wrote:
leesiulung wrote:Otherwise, I will just probably wait until the X200s falls in price.
It would be a pretty long wait. Because the X200s is so new, I think it will be excluded from all coupons for 3 months or more. At least that was true for the X300 when it was new. An option that's worth considering is picking up a cheap X31 (or X40 or X2* or even a non-Thinkpad ultraportable) to tide you over.

leesiulung wrote:My thinking now is, is the X200s 1440x900 on 12.1 widescreen going to be small to look at?
Your X31 has 105.8 dots per inch. 1280x800 on 12.1" has 124.7 DPI, and 1440x900 has 140.3. So yes, it will be noticeably smaller. But I read that the X200s will have a 1280x800 option later.

The X200 was excluded from "sale" pricing (20% off) and coupons for only about a month. I hope that the X200s takes its lead from the X200 and not the X300 which took a *long* time to have any "sale" pricing applied. I want an X200s RIGHT NOW!!!

lovebeta · #22 Post by **lovebeta** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:53 am

I would like to purchase another x61s (has an X60s right now). To me, X61s is better because:

Cheaper;
Smaller footprint;
4:3 screens with XGA LED backlight (sorry folks, I am the few ones who cannot stand any high resolution screens)
Compatible with current investment (multiple batteries and ultrabase)

lovebeta · #23 Post by **lovebeta** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:00 am

archer6 wrote: Congratulations on your new ThinkPad!
Great to hear that it meets your needs so well. This is just one of the many reasons I've always preferred ThinkPads, there's a model for everyone....

Not really... I want an X200s with 4:3 screen, nah...

#24 Post by **erik** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:26 am

lovebeta wrote:To me, X61s is better because:

...

4:3 screens with XGA LED backlight (sorry folks, I am the few ones who cannot stand any high resolution screens)

the TMD ultralight display in the X61s isn't LED, it's CCFL like the rest. the X300 was the first thinkpad to have an LED backlight.

lovebeta · #25 Post by **lovebeta** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:42 pm

erik wrote:
lovebeta wrote:To me, X61s is better because:

...

4:3 screens with XGA LED backlight (sorry folks, I am the few ones who cannot stand any high resolution screens)
the TMD ultralight display in the X61s isn't LED, it's CCFL like the rest. the X300 was the first thinkpad to have an LED backlight.

I see. Thanks for the correction. Since the ultralight screen is not LED, is it really worth it?

Also I've heard a lot of complaints about X300's screen despite that it is LED backlighted,... huh...

#26 Post by **erik** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:34 pm

lovebeta wrote:I see. Thanks for the correction. Since the ultralight screen is not LED, is it really worth it?

Also I've heard a lot of complaints about X300's screen despite that it is LED backlighted,... huh...

the X61s' ultralight display is 50 cd/m^2 brighter than the standard display, so it's a noticeable difference. i've seen it and it's a nice display.

i used to own an X300 and found its display to be perfectly fine for business apps. i wouldn't do color-critical work with it but it was never a problem with office, web, or watching DVDs.

phr · #27 Post by **phr** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:07 am

The x61 uses ddr2 memory which is far less expensive than ddr3 and available (for now) in higher density. You can put 8gb in an x61 but only 4gb in an x200. On the other hand, the x200's higher screen res is a big attraction. What happened to the X61T, which supported the high res screen?

I guess I just haven't thought of the x200 as interesting. I'm going to stay with my X40 for a while longer, but my upgrading thoughts have been towards the X61 or the X300, not the X200.

Tr0n · #28 Post by **Tr0n** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:36 pm

Pros for X61s
- mat screen
- good resolution for working (1024x768)
- pcmcia port
- FireWire port (for me not important)
- very good size
- better support for Linux or OS X, perfect with windows xp or windows 2003 (4 GB RAM)
- good keyboard size (for me)

I have 4 GB RAM and Samsung SSD 64 GB - perfect laptop

Cons X200s
- without display port in laptop
- without pcmcia port
- huge ugly lip around screen
- small screen size compared to X61s

leesiulung · #29 Post by **leesiulung** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:49 pm

Does the new X200s have a matt screen as well? I hate the shiny reflective crap screens. That must be one of the dumbest new "features" to date.

foodle · #30 Post by **foodle** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:27 pm

Yes, the X200 has a matte screen. These are Thinkpads!

X61s vs. X200s

Personally, I would choose

X61s vs. X200s

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