Need help. A21m boots and dies, then won't boot.

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fb3 · #1 Post by **fb3** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:46 am

This is the oddest problem. I have an A21m that's been doing good service for years.

Recently it started hanging up whenever it went into Standby. That is, it would go into Standby and then wouldn't come out. You had to hold the power button down 10 seconds to reset, then reboot, to get it to run.

Then I set it not to go into standby when on main power and it went into Standby anyway! Or something liek standby, and wouldn't come out, as before.

Then, yesterday, when it was turned on it hiccupped and the drive and power lights flickered in a cycling sequence for a few seconds, and it wouldn't boot at all. I checked the power cable, of course, and reseated the battery, but nothing would get it to boot.

So I removed the HD and attached it as an external to another machine so I could copy the data off of it, then put it back in the A21m. Still no boot. So I set it aside with the power cable plugged in.

Now, 24 hrs later, I started to look at it again, punched the power button and it booted fine! Still on main power. I put the PCMCIA 601b/g card back in and set up to my LAN, went online to a couple sites, and was just getting ready to start a clean install of Windows XP . . . when it blacked out on me!

I tried it on battery alone and as before, the flashing of the HD light and other keyboard LEDs in sequence (all the other lights flash at same time), and a coughing sound which is the floppy trying to run. Then the only way to STOP the flashing light and the power to the floppy was to remove the battery.

So far I've thought
(a) it's probably not battery since I don't run the machine on the battery very often, and the main power cable is always plugged in.
(b) I don't think it's the power CABLE itself, cause I shook the cable and it did not fire up the machine.
(c) I wondered if it could be the transformer, but I don't have another IBM power supply to test with.
(d) the CMOS hasn't ever been replaced, but I can't see how it would cause these symptoms.
(e) it won't boot off a floppy or a CD either, so it's some system-wide problem, i'm guessing.

Anyway, does any of this ring a bell with anyone out there? THis machine is an old favorite that is only used for email and minor web surfing, so is easily replaced, but I'd prefer to fix it, if I had a clue how.

Many thanks,

fb

ctcheung · #2 Post by **ctcheung** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:04 pm

I have exactly the same symptom as you described. When the problem happened, the cd drive/floppy gave a loud on-off cough sound just as you do. I can switch it off, and the only way is to unplug the power cord. I have tried several actions but still failed. After put it aside for a few days, it works fine for a couple of days and fails again, very unstable and unreliable. I already bought another one but just try to fix the old one. My daughter also has a A22m, and it sometimes goes to moon mode ( standby) automatically. I think it also has the similar symptom and will fail in the near future.
I have also try re-seating the cpu and replace the cmos. All failed. The cmos is contained in a yellow plastic wrap. Inside the yellow wrap is the button Lithium cell 2025, you can simply solder the wire directly onto the cell and wrap in shrinkage plastic wrap to replace the old one. However, I dont think it is the problem of the cmos or the re-seating of cpu. It is the ic chip ADP3421, and ADP3410. Most probably the ADP3421 which is the power control management ic. Yesterday, I went to the ic retailer centre in Shenzhen in China to buy the adp3421 and the adp3410 at US2.5 each. I got five of them each. I cant get the ic in Hong Kong that I had crossed the border and by taxi went to mainland China to a very very large ic retailing market to get the ic. I will use the hot air de-solder device to unsolder the ic. It is a very very smaill ic of 5mm by 3mm, with many soldering pin legs. It may have difficulties in the soldering and may destroy my motherboard. I will take the risk and hope to succeed in this experiment.

CT Cheung

fb3 · #3 Post by **fb3** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:43 am

attached the leads to the new battery with Scotch Tape and then replaced in yellow plastic wrapper and taped that. This was just a test as I was thinking that if it worked I'd buy the battery & housing & plug part from IBM.

well, booted fine and ran for about 12 minutes. Then died.

That means to me that it is NOT the CMOS battery.

Deb Suran · #4 Post by **Deb Suran** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:35 am

This is a known issue with the A series, and you can find more information by searching this section. The first suggestion is generally to replace the CMOS battery, the second is to remove the CPU chip, which can work loose over time, clean the contacts while it's out and then re-seat it. I'm currently working on an A22m with the same problem, which started three weeks after the 3-year warranty ended.

fb3 · #5 Post by **fb3** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:54 am

deb s--

well i replaced the CMOS battery with no change. I haven't tried to reseat the CPU yet--that's a fairly complicated operation, isn't it?

I need instructions. JHEM put a link on one of these threads to the IBM A21 service manual, so I have to go hunt that up.

Deb Suran · #6 Post by **Deb Suran** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:10 am

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1689
You'll find the links under "How do I take this thing apart?"
I have yet to do it myself, my goddaughter did it to this machine and there was no change, I'll be doing it again just for good measure.

fb3 · #7 Post by **fb3** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:41 am

ctcheung wrote:I have exactly the same symptom as you described. When the problem happened, the cd drive/floppy gave a loud on-off cough sound just as you do. I can switch it off, and the only way is to unplug the power cord. I have tried several actions but still failed. After put it aside for a few days, it works fine for a couple of days and fails again, very unstable and unreliable. I already bought another one but just try to fix the old one. My daughter also has a A22m, and it sometimes goes to moon mode ( standby) automatically. I think it also has the similar symptom and will fail in the near future.
I have also try re-seating the cpu and replace the cmos. All failed. The cmos is contained in a yellow plastic wrap. Inside the yellow wrap is the button Lithium cell 2025, you can simply solder the wire directly onto the cell and wrap in shrinkage plastic wrap to replace the old one. However, I dont think it is the problem of the cmos or the re-seating of cpu. It is the ic chip ADP3421, and ADP3410. Most probably the ADP3421 which is the power control management ic. Yesterday, I went to the ic retailer centre in Shenzhen in China to buy the adp3421 and the adp3410 at US2.5 each. I got five of them each. I cant get the ic in Hong Kong that I had crossed the border and by taxi went to mainland China to a very very large ic retailing market to get the ic. I will use the hot air de-solder device to unsolder the ic. It is a very very smaill ic of 5mm by 3mm, with many soldering pin legs. It may have difficulties in the soldering and may destroy my motherboard. I will take the risk and hope to succeed in this experiment.

CT Cheung

I (and others, I'm sure) am very interested in what happened with the power control management chips and the soldering. Could you say if you successfully fixed your machine and the problem?

fb3 · #8 Post by **fb3** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:43 am

Deb Suran wrote:http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1689
You'll find the links under "How do I take this thing apart?"
I have yet to do it myself, my goddaughter did it to this machine and there was no change, I'll be doing it again just for good measure.

deb suran--

did you take yours apart and reseat the CPU and was the result of this positive or negative? I started to do mine but then sort of stripped one of the screws on the bottom that need to be removed for the removal of the keyboard. Now I'm stumped.

fb

Deb Suran · #9 Post by **Deb Suran** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:46 pm

Haven't gotten to it yet, maybe this weekend.

ctcheung · #10 Post by **ctcheung** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:02 pm

I already borrowed the hot air blower from my friend for the ic desoldering. It has the temperature control hot air blower with different blower tips for different shape of ic. The soldering tin/lead metal is in paste form in grey color, specially for low temperature surface mount soldering, unlike the ordinary metal thread which need an electric soldering iron. I have tried to dig out a small bead of paste and use fire match to heat it. It melted to form a bright tin bead. I will later try it on an old pc motherboard with surface mount ic to learn the blower skill for desoldering. I am going to take photos at every stage to record the whole process especially to record where the screws are placed. I have printed the complete IBM "Thinkpad A22m Maintenance Manual" for steps how to take the motherboard off from the case. It has very detail diagrams to show steps by steps how to take off each part until the mainboard is out. This is one of the reason I like to IBM notebook, no other notebook manufacturer has such detail maintenance manual. The manual (it uses the Wireless Thinkpad A22m model as an example for desembling) is download from the ibm website. The manual has 132 pages, and you may search through ibm website to find it.
I will need a quiet place with my wife out of sight for me to do the soldering process. I have to keep the screws well in order for putting back to it. I may do it next week and will tell you the result and share with you my experience. I am expecting a good success in the operation and hope to end this one year old headache problem.

CT

fb3 · #11 Post by **fb3** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:16 am

Deb Suran wrote:Haven't gotten to it yet, maybe this weekend.

Pls post results here or somewhere when you do it. I may make another pass at mine.

I can't believe this is such a well recognized problem but has no known resolution!

Seems like by now there would be a concensus about a fix.

Cheers--

fb3 · #12 Post by **fb3** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:19 am

ctcheung wrote:I already borrowed the hot air blower from my friend for the ic desoldering. It has the temperature control hot air blower with different blower tips for different shape of ic. The soldering tin/lead metal is in paste form in grey color, specially for low temperature surface mount soldering, unlike the ordinary metal thread which need an electric soldering iron. I have tried to dig out a small bead of paste and use fire match to heat it. It melted to form a bright tin bead. I will later try it on an old pc motherboard with surface mount ic to learn the blower skill for desoldering. I am going to take photos at every stage to record the whole process especially to record where the screws are placed. I have printed the complete IBM "Thinkpad A22m Maintenance Manual" for steps how to take the motherboard off from the case. It has very detail diagrams to show steps by steps how to take off each part until the mainboard is out. This is one of the reason I like to IBM notebook, no other notebook manufacturer has such detail maintenance manual. The manual (it uses the Wireless Thinkpad A22m model as an example for desembling) is download from the ibm website. The manual has 132 pages, and you may search through ibm website to find it.
I will need a quiet place with my wife out of sight for me to do the soldering process. I have to keep the screws well in order for putting back to it. I may do it next week and will tell you the result and share with you my experience. I am expecting a good success in the operation and hope to end this one year old headache problem.

CT

I wonder about this whole process. I think this: if this is a relatively common problem, then there oughta be a fix out there short of ripping the machine apart and resoldering the chips. I mean, that seems like the least likely kind of fix for a common problem.

What does everyone else who encounters this problem do? Do they just trash the machine, use it for parts, and write it off?

Has anyone actually contacted IBM service about this problem? How would I go about doing that?

Thanks (and good luck!)--

fb

Deb Suran · #13 Post by **Deb Suran** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:55 pm

My report: I disassembled the ThinkPad and reseated the CPU chip on Sunday afternoon, it worked for just about 48 hours but is now having the same problems as before.

Do they just trash the machine, use it for parts, and write it off?
I'm afraid that's what I'm going to have to do - I'll keep looking for a replacement motherboard, or a similar model with a broken LCD and swap screens. Damm, it started having trouble just *three weeks* after the 3-year warranty I'd purchased ended.

Need help. A21m boots and dies, then won't boot.

Need help. A21m boots and dies, then won't boot.

i replaced cmos

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