T61p vs T500 vs W500

[pointfielder]

T61p vs T500 vs W500

I am trying to decide which one of these to buy to use for the next 3-4 years.
I currently own a 3-yr old T43p. Screen size required is around 15" with best
resolution possible. 256MB is enough for my graphics needs.
Fast processor is more important. I don't know if the newer LCD screens are
not too bad compared to my T43p's IPS screen. I prefer to use Windows
XP Pro if possible until Windows 7 comes out.

Here is my current understanding based on tabook and some posts in this
forum for the relative pros and cons of T61p vs T500 vs W500.

Please correct these or append to these your views, so that I (and others
in the market) can make a decision on which one is the best buy and also
best value for money at this time. Your help is highly appreciated.

T61p
Pros: Solid build, Best screen, Cheaper, XP Pro tested
Cons: Shorter battery life, not as future proof

T500
Pros: Good battery life, Cheaper
Cons: Screen not as good as T61p, not sure if XP Pro can use all its features.

W500
Pros: Good battery life, more future proof (quad-core compatible?)
Cons: Screen not as good as T61p, Expensive, not sure if XP Pro can use
all its features

[awolfe63]

A few comments.

1) I don't believe the T61p has any better screen than the others. The T60p had the IPS screen that many people are in love with.

2) If you really want the highest resolution - the 1920x1200 screen is only available on the T61p and W500.

3) XP runs great on a W500 (I am doing it) and presumably on a T500 since they are pretty much the same machine. The only thing that does not work is on-the-fly switchable graphics (you need to pick one in BIOS).

4) Graphics speed is about the same on all 3 models.

5) The T500/W500 are available at 2.8GHz. The T61p is capped at 2.6GHz.

6) Prices vary greatly from day to day - but the T500/W500 have already seen some excellent sales. T61p is still widely available at the outlet. (Often listed as a T61)

[Marin85]

...and last but not least, unlike T61p the T/W 500 series have 1066MHz FSB and support DDR3 RAM up to 1066 MHz. Also note that the W500 has 512 MB of VRAM while T500 features "only" 256 MB of VRAM.

Cheers

Marin

[Wentworth]

ALSO W500 and T500 have an extra display port output.

[pointfielder]

Thanks everyone for your valuable comments as of now.

Keep them coming. I will continue to update
the following. Here is the current update:

T61p
Pros: Solid build, Cheaper, XP Pro tested, 1920x1200 screen available
Cons: Shorter battery life, not as future proof, max Proc speed 2.6Hz

T500
Pros: Good battery life, Cheaper, Extra display port output, 1066MHz FSB,
DDR3 RAM upto 1066MHz.
Cons: Need to choose switchable graphics in XP Pro.

W500
Pros: Good battery life, Extra display port output, 1066MHz FSB, DDR3 RAM
upto 1066MHz, 512MB VRAM, 1920x1200 screen available, More future proof
(quad-core compatible?)
Cons: Need to choose switchable graphics in XP Pro, Expensive.

[Marin85]

I have just read your initial post. I think if I was you I would pick a T500, because it really seems to be simply the golden middle in your choice: decent graphics, nevertheless good battery life, latest Intel mobile platform (that is indeed quite a jump compared to the previous one) offering you cpu and memory with excellent performance... I believe when maxed out such a machine could serve one quite well for at least next 3-4 years. In the meantime the HDDs will be slowly (or not so slowly) but surely replaced by the SSD technology becoming cheaper from day to day. So, all in all performance-wise you will be set up quite well for the next few years Also, I wouldn´t base such a choice on the OS. Regarding Windows 7 don´t expect miracles from M$. I happened to see an alpha of Windows 7 very closely and apart from the fact that it takes up even more resources than Vista, it´s nothing else but sort of visually polished Vista. So, nothing different from the Vista concept.

Just my 2 cents

A side note: Unless one is pretty much in OpenGL (or in scientific simulations where ine would be anyway pretty lucky to be able to utilize any mobile OpenGL ATI card to a satisfactory extend) one doesn´t really need an OpenGL card. Of course, there is always the possibility that future software would utilize OpenGL in a why that makes an OpenGL graphics adapter preferable.

[pointfielder]

Thanks everyone.
I am currently debating between the T500 and the W500.

I will be using the machine for compute intensive jobs
and also for lots of molecular visualization with VMD
that uses OpenGL. From that point of view is the
integrated Intel X4500HD powerful enough or not? As
the ATI graphics card adds almost $300 to the price if
I were to go with T500.

[Marin85]

I will be using the machine for compute intensive jobs
and also for lots of molecular visualization with VMD
that uses OpenGL

I don´t believe you will be satisfied with the integrated graphics. I would definitely go for the hybrid solution (ATI + Intel), that means either T500 with hybrid graphics or W500. I don´t know particularly about VMD + ATI FireGL (as I have mostly heard or seen nVidia with their CUDA platform). It is an interesting question though if the FireGL card of W500 would make any difference compared to the HD3650 in T500 with the current available drivers (I mean, theoretically, the FireGL 5700 would suit to your needs (VMD etc.) better if one has the proper software (e.g. OpenGL implementation + drivers). )

[pointfielder]

Hi Marin:
VMD does have an OpenGL implementation that can detect
the existence of a GL card and use its functionality.
I am guessing that a W500 with FireGL 5700 will come
with its drivers installed with an XP or Vista Preload.

[Marin85]

Thanks a lot for the clarification! And sorry to have stolen your thread . This question is also important to me as I´m about to participate at a project dealing with protein structures and I guess I´ll have to start learning this kind of software, so I only wanted to know if my hardware will suit my needs the way I thought it would a few months back when I purchased the machine.

Cheers

Marin

[ricerocket]

Doesn't the T61p have a bad history of overheating?

[Icefang]

I have a T61p which I have used to use to play Age of Conan for hours at a time. After a while it was generating so much heat that it was making my fingers sore, because I think I was cooking them at a low grade temperature. Even with that the laptop ran fine for a couple hours at a time. I would feel very confident running T61p on any engineering task for hours at a time without issues. My machine is dual booted with Linux / Windows and I have never had any heat issues what so ever while running engineering tasks. From everything I have seen and the issues some people have had with the W500, it doesnt seem to me that the W500 is a step up from the T61p.

[michal.slonina]

I own T61p and W520. After 1 year of using W520 i now returned to my T61p and it feels like back at home... it has made my day

The T61p is far superior laptop in every dimension apart from CPU power:
- DISPLAY
The display is T61p is perfect for coding. In W520 you feel like looking at the welding arc, with crappy resolution you can't even read code.
- BUILD QUALITY
The build quality of T61p can only be surpassed by that of T60. W520 after 1 year of heavy use looks older then my more then 3 year old T61p.
T61p works always, no matter what you do to it.... mine survived falling off the stairs, being flooded, thrown around planes...
W520 starts to have some strange power supply issues after 1 year of calm desktop usage.
- HEAT DISPERSION
W520 also feels hot, even on discrete graphics, i have the fan running constantly. The T61p needs to be put to hard work to start the fan.
- ERGONOMICS
This is subjective... after year of typing on W520, the T61p keyboard just feels better. Keys are quieter and have lower profile.
- SOFTWARE
W520 has really stupid BIOS, turn on CPU Virtualization and discrete graphics in BIOS and Ubuntu won't boot.
On T61p never had problems with anything.

It's really a pity i can't stuff an i7 into the T61p. This would be my dream laptop.

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

I hope you do realize you're responding to a five year old topic?

While I agree with you on build quality on the W520 vs the T61 series, I highly doubt your remarks about heat and noise. Unless the -P adds some amazing cooling... My experience is that my W520 runs without moving parts for quite a long time, and that it's over-all cooler when at the same power profile. That's also quite logic, since the power consumption is also significantly lower on the W520 compared to the T61

[schen]

I hope you do realize you're responding to a five year old topic?

Hilarious, but..... interesting to see that there's so much interest in discussion regarding older ThinkPads. A testament to their design and build quality that allows them to be a functional machine for so long. For us (other than my work machine), they are home, surf the web and type an email devices so they don't need to be "latest and greatest". It might sound really behind the curve, but I'm current going through what this 5-year old thread was discussing!

I been using the various T61s ranging from the integrated Intel graphics version to the dreaded nVidia version for any number of projects around our house, since they can be had for as low as $90 fully functioning. Last week though, I found a guy locally that turns over corporate surplus selling T500 for $125! The one he had listed was a "CTO", but I was able to determine that it had the higher res 1680 x 1050 screen so I bought it to replace my wife's T61. I put a singe 4Gb stick of RAM in it and moved my wife's 240Gb SSD over for a quick upgrade.

The point of this reply is that these things are amazing deals at the current selling price-point! Discrete/hybrid graphics, DDR3, and later Penryn CPUs for not much more than $100 is ridiculous. Sure, I'd rather have the IPS screen of our old T60s, and the build quality of my old A31p, but the amount of computing power you get for the money is ridiculous!

[Shredder11]

I hope you do realize you're responding to a five year old topic?

Hilarious, but..... interesting to see that there's so much interest in discussion regarding older ThinkPads. A testament to their design and build quality that allows them to be a functional machine for so long. For us (other than my work machine), they are home, surf the web and type an email devices so they don't need to be "latest and greatest". It might sound really behind the curve, but I'm current going through what this 5-year old thread was discussing!

The thing is old topics frequently are viewed for the first time by people new to owning an older Thinkpad, so to them the topic does not feel years old, it feels new and hopefully relevant. Anyway I agree with your comments on how good the pre-2010 ranges are, and I am still using a few 2006 Thinkpad Z61p for music production, video playback (with assistance) and general internet and so on. I'm amazed at how it can pretty much do anything I want and quickly enough too, although mine have T7600 CPU, SSD, 3GB RAM, USB 3.0 + eSATA ports in the ExpressCard/54 socket and Broadcom BCM70015 video decoder and more.

Okay I suppose this thread will roll over and go back to sleep for another couple of years!

[ac12]

And now I'm in the same boat.
Though I have a T61 that I am maxing out on the horsepower, cpu at 100% a little too much.
So I'm trying to decide between a T5xx or W5xx.

[awolfe63]

And now I'm in the same boat.
Though I have a T61 that I am maxing out on the horsepower, cpu at 100% a little too much.
So I'm trying to decide between a T5xx or W5xx.

There is no discernable difference between the two. Get the one you find with the best display and CPU.

[ajkula66]

Though I have a T61 that I am maxing out on the horsepower, cpu at 100% a little too much.

What are you doing that causes CPU to hit 100%?

So I'm trying to decide between a T5xx or W5xx.

My hunch is that if T61 is *that* under-powered for your needs, anything weaker/older than a high-end W510 will not make you happy.

[awolfe63]

Good point. I'm now finding good deals on refurbished T400/T410/T420. I'll bet you can get 15" models as well.

[Pokrzept]

Though I have a T61 that I am maxing out on the horsepower, cpu at 100% a little too much.

What are you doing that causes CPU to hit 100%?
[...]

I am pretty sure that he's "doing" WU service Long live Microsoft.

[TPFanatic]

What are you doing that causes CPU to hit 100%?
[...]

I am pretty sure that he's "doing" WU service Long live Microsoft.

Do this to solve that problem until they break it again.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 56#p784256

[AdaSch]

my four full loaded t61p have problems with nvidia (the die under regular work in excel), now I use w500 - much better

important differences:

W500 have two graphics cards - much longer battery life, less heat
W500 support turbo memory on second pci slot. It's great please for "temp" folder - no trash on HDD
on "left" pci you can use 3G modem
W500 have better cooling system = lower noise
W500 1066 fsb and t9900 support
W500 chipper 8Gb RAM

LCD equal, two are dark, no LED in 1920x1200 - this is worst element for me

main problem with 1920x1200 is idiotic clear type fonts (eyes slowly die). Its possible to full turn off but this required install patched aero theme. after this screen is clear like in XP. of course I always mod it after install Sp1 i W7. Nice and clear tahoma 8 looks great

I don't see any reason for back to t61p - W500 is better for me but still not good as T43p 14" (construction, mechanic, looking etc)

[Cigarguy]

Only reason to get a T61(p) over a T/W500 is the 4:3 screen format. In most every other aspect the T/W500 is superior.

[fatpolomanjr]

I've made this mistake before: there was never a 4:3 15" T61 (only the 14" came with that aspect ratio). Since the discussion is comparing T61/T500/W500, I don't believe the 14" is of interest.

Now, T60/61 Frankenpad is a different story altogether.