Thinkpads.com X41 Project - (Pic Warning)

[Harryc]

Samsung-Spinpoint-120GB-5400-RPM-HS122JC-ZIF-PATA-1-8 on EBay

[dwilsonfl]

I don't know, Harry. This is that vendor's answer to my question about a warranty.

no warranty as far as concern as these are 3rd party component, so if there is problem u have to claim warranty from the 3rd component company instead of samsung. If u want warranty please buy it the retail version from the store. These are sold as it.

- squarelly

Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.

So he buys from a laptop builder who buys from Samsung? And he doesn't warranty,Samsung doesn't warranty. Not sure it's a good bet.

[Harryc]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Samsung-HS122JC-120 ... 0298222644

[kulek]

Hi, I use this post to insert Samsung HS082HB to my X41t. System run nice and quick, but after some time 15/20 min hdd start clicking same as old Toshiba. Samsung is new, so i dunno, anyone have this problem?

Ed. Another strange thing - hdd stop clanking some time, meaby its software...

[Smokestoomuch]

Hello Harry. Thank you for the very nice write up. I have an orphaned X41T, very similar in condition to your project X40. After reading and looking at all the pictures, I have a few questions.
1) How did you ever figure out that the voltage regulator had to be bypassed? Is it bypassed because the voltage from the X40 is already regulated?
2) I need someone to really set me straight about this PATA/SATA stuff. The more I read, the more confused I get. The X40 series all use PATA drives? Are PATA drives the OEM equipment? But SATA drives may still be used under certain conditions (set ups)?
3) It is my understanding that the 1.8" HDD may have a width of 12.5mm, 9.5mm or 5mm. For this project, was your HDD 9.5mm or 5mm in width?

[Harryc]

Seems that you're putting me to task here ...

1.) I didn't figure anything out. I copied a modification off of a German website.
http://www.think4d.de/nbb/x41_ssd.htm
...and it's not a voltage regulator, it's a 5V-3.3V voltage converter. It is not needed because the ide interface in the X41 already supplies 3.3v It's all explained in this thread.

2.) From the factory, X41/t machines use 1.8" PATA drives period, not SATA. If you use a converter (like I did), then you can also use ZIF drives.

3.) The drive I used was a Samsung HS122JC. It is a 71mm (1.8") wide, 8mm high drive.
Height (Max.) 8.0 mm
Width 71.0 mm
Length 54.0 mm
Weight (avg.) 59 g

[sjthinkpader]

If you read thru the posts, the guy in Germany write about the 3.3V regulator. All 2.5 inch drives are made for 5V and 1.8 inch drives, pins or ZIF versions, are made for 3.3V. Most adapters are designed to use a 1.8 inch drive in a 2.5 inch slots. So they include a 3.3V regulator. I have a 40GB 1.8 inch Hitachi drive in a X20 at the moment.

I did find a regulator-less IDE/ZIF adapter at Akihabara in Tokyo. But the ZIF connector is reversed so I could not get my Hitachi drives to work. It may have been made for Toshiba HDD but I have no drives to test.

All X40/X41/X41t are PATA (IDE). They don't work with SATA or CEATA drives from Samsung.

All 1.8 inch drives are 8mm or 5 mm thick. For Hitachi drives; 60GB & 40GB are 8mm and 30GB & 20GB are 5mm thick.

[Smokestoomuch]

SATA is faster than PATA. When Lenovo began making the X40 series, they changed chip sets in mid production. The chip-set they started with was PATA compatible while the chip set they went to was SATA compatible. To make their product line consistent, Lenovo included a SATA to PATA converter in the boards which had the later chip sets. Is this all correct? Did I miss anything?
Well, for whatever reason, the 4200 ZIF Pata drives are almost non-existent and real expensive. I cannot find a 5400 ZIF Pata drive at any price. This drives me (pardon the pun) to wonder if a Sata can somehow be made to work. They look to be spinning faster, holding more and a lot cheaper per GB. I have seen Pata to Sata converters although I am supposing all you fine folks here have pondered this option long before the likes of me. You all have, haven't you?

[Harryc]

I thought about it but couldn't find a PATA to SATA adapter that would fit in an X41 machine...and the hybrid SATA controller has nothing to do with getting SATA drives to work in there, it's getting an adapter that will fit that is the challenge. The hardware interface is PATA. (period). That is what you need to deal with. As far as finding a a Samsung HS122JC on EBay, you have to be very patient because they do show up every couple of weeks, and when they do you need to be ready to buy ... they go fast. Frankly SSD's are the way to go in this machine family. Hold onto those old X41 machines until the SSD prices come down.

[newtonparticle]

Nice thread

I've been looking into upgrading my X41 Tablet and this thread has been really useful!

I did find the following (though a bit expensive for many ppl) which should simply slot in where the old drive was (still get a 2010 error though )

http://cgi.ebay.com/KingSpec-1.8%22-IDE ... 9001r28666

[underclocker]

First test fit of the hard drive. Uh oh...not enough room.
http://thinkpads.vedet.net/pictures/DSC01635_a.jpg

Awesome project! I know there are now nice SSD options for X40 and X41 upgrades, but the 128GB SSD from KingSpec is currently selling for $430 on eBay, while the 5400rpm 120GB Samsung PATA ZIF drive is $150. Regarding the quote above, that there wasn't enough room for the drive, I was wondering if you could expand upon that comment.

I recently picked up an X4x machine that came with a new style hard drive, the one with a PATA ZIF drive and an adapter cage -> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57685

I opened up the cage and noted the exact drive model, Hitachi HTC426060G8CE00, which is a 4200rpm 60GB PATA ZIF drive. It turns out that according to the spec. sheets on both this Hitachi and the Samsung HS122JC drives, the drives are identically sized (with the same style connectors), 8mm x 71mm x 54mm. So it seems to me that a simple swap would work and fit.

So, was it that there wasn't enough room for the drive and ZIF to IDE adapter or perhaps not enough room where the drive had to be centered with the adapter? It seems to me that the Samsung drive should fit in the new style adapter without any modifications. Thank you for giving this some thought! Has anyone else done the Samsung drive upgrade with a new style IBM/Lenovo adapter? I am thinking that a bump up to 5400rpm, 120GB and an 8MB cache may give my X40 the boost I'm looking for.

[Harryc]

Underclocker, I didn't use the adapter cage, I used a cheap adapter card from EBay. With the card I got the only way for the drive to work with the supplied Zif cables was for the drive to sit sideways in the cage. In order to do that I had to cut off the right side bay plastic slide. How much is the Lenovo adapter cage and where do you get them?

[underclocker]

I got kind of lucky. I bought an X40 from eBay and it had the new style drive/adapter in it. It must have been a replacement from Lenovo for a failed drive unit. My other X40 has the original style 1.8" PATA drive. But now that I have one of these new drives/adapters, I'd love to try the faster drive. I love the X40 but iTunes is killing it.

[sjthinkpader]

Does this adapter use ZIF drives? Can you post a picture?

[underclocker]

Yes, the adapter takes PATA ZIF drives. It is one of the options used by Lenovo when replacing failed drives (the other is a certified used original drive).

Picture links were posted in the thread that I referenced in my above post, I will provide the post will links from that thread below;

Thanks to gator for hosting these images.

I have "deidentified" the hard drive; please excuse the blurring of serial numbers. Interesting thing is that if I enter the serial number of the drive into the Hitachi warranty lookup, it states for expiration date, "Please return drive to the point of purchase or system manufacturer." and it states for Sold to GEO, "AP" (I don't know what this means). You'll also see from the images that the drive itself (once removed from its shell) has a Lenovo part number on it as well.

Image 1 is four frames, showing the comparison of the old and new drive. The two left pictures making up this frame have the new drive on the left, and the old drive (about to be returned to Lenovo on warranty) on the right. The two right pictures show the new drive stacked on top of the old drive. You'll notice that the new drive has four less pins than the original one (I'm too lazy to look up what those pins do).

Image 1a shows the new drive stacked on the old drive. Note that the casing of the new drive has extruded "nubbins" which replaces screws to hold on the plastic from the laptop case which enables one to remove the hard drive from the X41T.

Image 2 is three frames. The top frame shows the only two screws you have to remove with a small Philips screwdriver. The middle frame shows the "top" of the drive with the cover on, and the bottom shows it after this cover is removed (after the screws are removed).

Image 3 is three frames. On the top frame you see the casing intact. On the middle frame you see what the casing looks like just as it's starting to open. The way that you open it is to push in (towards the top of the picture) a little on the top part of the casing and shove your fingernail where you see that little opening (and brown ribbon cable peeking through). As you're pushing in on the top part, use your fingernail to pull the bottom towards you. Look where the two halves hang up--it's purely a mechanical fit (no fasteners). By doing this, you can separate the top from the bottom of this casing. Once you've separated this end of the case, it's pretty obvious how to open the rest. On the bottom frame, you see what it looks like after you've removed the casing. It's laid out as an "clam shell" so you can stay oriented as to how the two had fit together.

Image 4 shows details of the drive assembly and ZIF-IDE adapter. The only marking for the adapter is shown on the top frame.

I dare not try to remove the adapter from the drive, as long as this drive is working for me. Perhaps if the drive croaks I'll be willing to experiment more. Hope this is helpful!

--w

[underclocker]

One more interesting fact, apparently Samsung made 5400 rpm 1.8" PATA ZIF drives in three sizes, 80GB, 100GB and 120GB. Until I found this link, I was not aware of the 100GB option.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... 0XJC_M.pdf

[sjthinkpader]

Thanks for the link. Certainly is more elegant than my own conversion:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72219

I also found that Samsung JC datasheet. Here is a different one.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... S122JB.pdf

[underclocker]

I also found that Samsung JC datasheet. Here is a different one.

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/ ... S122JB.pdf

Yes, those will work, too, but they are only 3600 or 4200 RPM drives (some with 2MB cache vs. 8MB)! I was referring to an upgrade that included a boost to 5400 RPM and an 8MB cache.

P.S. I just ordered the 80GB 5400 RPM 8MB cache model (HS08XJC), I'll report back next week on the install - I hope it's just a swap with the new style Lenovo adapter. I'll run before and after benchmarks.

[sjthinkpader]

Yes, after seeing the datasheets, it became clear that in Samsung model naming convention A=3600RPM, B=4200RPM, C=5400RPM, H=5mm thickness, J=8mm thickness.

I did find a HS122JC and waiting for it to arrive.

[underclocker]

OK, my Samsung HS08XJC 80GB 5400 rpm drive arrived. I discovered that the connector type on the 5400 rpm PATA drives is not ZIF, but LIF! ZIF is Zero Insertion Force and LIF is Low Insertion Force. ZIF is a flip top style connector, LIF is a slide-in style connector. According to this link, the pinout is the same for either cable. However, the cable from the new style Lenovo ZIF to IDE adapter is a little too thick on the ZIF end. I was able to shoehorn the cable into the connector with a little more than "low" insertion force. The drive powers up but is not recognized. It just clicks. Perhaps I 1) damaged the cable, 2) didn't insert it properly, or 3) received a bad drive, or 4) damaged the drive! I will try again tonight. Bottom line, this operation doesn't seem to be a quick swap - is it ever?!

Minor note: The new style Lenovo ZIF to IDE adapter needs a couple of minor modifications to accommodate the Samsung drive, it's protrusions are a little different than the Hitachi drive - but it will fit. Have some small snips handy.

If anyone can help, please speak up - sjthinkpader?!

ZIF/LIF connector info --> http://www.ggi-international.com/en/pro ... rs/zif.php

Evidence that force works with other laptops --> http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/newbb ... ic_id=2311

[sjthinkpader]

It took me a while to get the HS040HB to work too.

That is actually a ZIF connector but the thinner white colored cable end made for Toshiba actually went in easier. The release bar is on the PCB side instead of the cable side. I got the HS040HB to work in the same cable orientation as the Hitachi drives, but used a White/Blue cable instead of the Blue/Blue cable. Remember to tape the metal area on the drive near the cable to prevent shorting.

The Samsung drive side connector looks like it can make cable contact on top or bottom. I wanted to test this with a made for Toshiba adapter with an upside down connector but my daughter would not surrender the X40 for me to do a test.

[sjthinkpader]

....That is actually a ZIF connector but the thinner white colored cable end made for Toshiba actually went in easier. The release bar is on the PCB side instead of the cable side. ...

Here are pix of what it looks like:

Locked
Open

[underclocker]

Well now I'm in a bind. I was trying to remove the cable so I could re-seat it, but it ripped. So, now I've destroyed the new style adapter and can't use either the original 4200 rpm 60GB drive or the new 80GB 5400 rpm drive. This is getting expensive. I should have picked up a KingSpec SSD - hindsight is 20/20.

Any ideas? I suppose I can sitll do a custom install of either drive like Harry did.

[sjthinkpader]

Yes, get those $10 adapters and you will get a blue/blue and blue/white cable.

I bought three styles so far. One similar to Harry's with jumper and LED sticking out. Second one is reasonably flat and used in my T41t with the rather thick 9.5mm Hitachi 60GB ZIF drive (lower in pix). The third style seems to be for Toshiba drives (upper in pix) and without a 3.3V regulator.

[underclocker]

Quick update: Extra frustration! It turns out that I probably did everything right - the drive is bad! Like I said it did have power, but just clicked, I thought it had to do with the cable, but I just tried it in a Dell D420 (which uses a 1.8" ZIF drive), same result - power, clicking, not seen by BIOS. So, I destroyed the new style adapter for nothing!

I will post pictures, but the new style adapter is nothing more than a cage with a ZIF to PATA cable glued to it. I pulled the cable off the cage, no resistors or jumpers, just a custom cable from Japan. Now I need to find a new one.

Also, the Samsung drive uses what's often called a Toshiba style cable/connector. Like sjthinkpader said it may very well be a ZIF connector, but a smaller, reverse flip style that uses a thinner cable - or one without a plastic reinforcement at the tip. I noticed the plastic reinforcement can be removed, resulting in a thin cable that slides right in! Hindsight is 20/20.

Here is a link to some high resolution pictures of the drives, new style adapter and damage --> ZIF info

[Smokestoomuch]

Harry: I'm still collecting parts to do this conversion and was wondering what was the length of the ZIF cable you used. The cables that come with the 44-pin to ZIF adapter (same as the one you used) are 55mm. Is that the one you used or does it need a longer cable? Thank you for helping.

[Harryc]

I used the cables that came with the adapter.

[sjthinkpader]

Harry,

I received my HS122JC and it installed and worked fine. However, I can hear a whine to it like those early 7200 drives. Did your copy has this whine?

[Harryc]

I don't recall a whine, and if there was one it was low level and not annoying. I definately could hear the drive spinning though.

[sjthinkpader]

I don't recall a whine, and if there was one it was low level and not annoying. I definately could hear the drive spinning though.

Yes, it was not loud but not as quiet as other 1.8 inch ZIF drives. Considering it has a stamped sheet metal frame, it would not be as quiet as drives with cast frames.

Performance wise, it compared very favorably against other 5400RPM 2.5 inch drives.