Thinkpads.com X41 Project - (Pic Warning)

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proaudioguy · #31 Post by **proaudioguy** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:06 am

Harryc wrote:proaudioguy, as I mentioned to Tims, suggest a reasonably priced SSD and we'll do it. There are no 'rules' here for these projects. We do what the members want to see. Just keep in mind that we have to sell this laptop. As an example, at the end of the day we could have around $450 invested into a laptop with a 16GB MTRON MOBI ZIF SSD. That is based on a 16MB MTRON MOBI ZIF/IDE SSD costing @$250. My question would be; Is that a sellable laptop at $450? Your thoughts? Personally I have seen a couple of SSD machines have problems selling on the Marketplace forum. I don't think most EBay buyers are technically sophisticated enough to see beyond a 16GB drive, perceive it as being small, and the machine as being expensive compared to the 60GB X41's out there for $350.

16GB is not nearly large enough. I thought these things were up to 128GB. Perhaps not in the 1.8 form factor. What are they using in the iphone? Just random thoughts.

proaudioguy · #32 Post by **proaudioguy** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:12 am

OldManClayton wrote:Is it not possible to just install Windows XP with the provided COA and download the drivers? I've installed XP from a generic disc on laptops with their provided COA before...

It's likely not possible. If you get an i386 folder from another thinkpad of the same era, you might be able to make that happen. I've had no luck doing this with other OEM or retail XP media. What I've done is install the retail disc (to get the computer functional), then before activation, run the i386 setup, then input the COA on the bottom of the computer. THe i386 folder couldn't be run from a boot CD but I'm sure someone knows how to make a bootable disc that will run the installer. I'm just not qualified to do it.

x412008 · #33 Post by **x412008** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:46 am

I have installed Win2K WinXP and Vista + misc. Linux distributions from fresh installs, and installed the needed drivers after install with no problems. (And I only install the important drivers and software from IBM, so I don't have all the IBM bloated software to slow the x41 down, I also use nLite to remove some default MS sofware and services). Also a little tip, try to find some alternatives to the MEGAbloated software. like Adobe Reader 150MB+ Installed vs. Foxit Reader 4MB Install and much faster, Azareuz 30MB+ Installed vs. uTorrent 500k much faster. The list goes on and on..

x412008

x412008 · #34 Post by **x412008** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:50 am

BTW. The Thinkpad x41 does not need any special IBM install CD, you can install it with no problem from a regular WinXP CD. or Win2K or Vista for that matter.

x412008

proaudioguy · #35 Post by **proaudioguy** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:09 pm

x412008 wrote:I have installed Win2K WinXP and Vista + misc. Linux distributions from fresh installs, and installed the needed drivers after install with no problems. (And I only install the important drivers and software from IBM, so I don't have all the IBM bloated software to slow the x41 down, I also use nLite to remove some default MS sofware and services). Also a little tip, try to find some alternatives to the MEGAbloated software. like Adobe Reader 150MB+ Installed vs. Foxit Reader 4MB Install and much faster, Azareuz 30MB+ Installed vs. uTorrent 500k much faster. The list goes on and on..

x412008

You failed to mention that you used the COA on the bottom of the computer when doing this which was the whole point. We all know you can install just about any OS on a Thinkpad and have it 100% or nearly 100%, including Linux, and Mac OS. Some just take more work than others. The question is can you use a retail installation disc and enter the COA on the bottom of the computer. I say no. What say you?

beGi · #36 Post by **beGi** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:33 pm

I believe that OEM version with your own COA would do the job...

tim S · #37 Post by **tim S** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:50 pm

The Win XP COA under any Thinkpad is not transferable to an OEM version of XP I guess because there are differences between a bundled XP version and an OEM version. I don't know what those differences are, but they are but they are sufficient to stop the activation.
Tim S

#38 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:08 pm

proaudioguy wrote:16GB is not nearly large enough. I thought these things were up to 128GB. Perhaps not in the 1.8 form factor. What are they using in the iphone? Just random thoughts.

You can get a 128GB SSD in 1.8 form factor but the price is WAY above what we have to work with in this project. Even the 64GB SSD's are @ $550 for a decent one.

Tim S and others, can we move the OEM COA discussion to another thread please, it is not relavent here. We want X41 R&R CD's for this project. (period)

proaudioguy · #39 Post by **proaudioguy** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:16 pm

Harryc wrote:You can get a 128GB SSD in 1.8 form factor but the price is WAY above what we have to work with in this project. Even the 64GB SSD's are @ $550 for a decent one.

The computer would be worth that much more with an SSD much like the new X300 and X200 cost more with SSD. They aren't giving those SSDs away. I'm curious what they are putting in the iPhone and iPod touch.
I thought there were guys using 2 32GB CF cards, and perhaps some using SD cards. This is clearly a hack that needs a FAQ. Another 4200 slow drive is just a waste of time IMHO. Perhaps the SSD idea is beyond the scope of this project, but I can't imagine anyone that can't put a hard drive in, run a restore, stick in some ram, and buy a new PSU. I thought the whole point was to do something that was a challenge. Peace out, I'm going back into lurk. Good luck with whatever you guys end up with.

#40 Post by **Harryc** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:31 pm

I am seeing a lot of talk and not too many real proposals here, despite having asked for that twice. Propose a cost effective upgrade within the remaining budget that will result in a sellable X41 at the end of the day and we'll do it. We have around $320 left. I'd also like to say that the amount of work (and the difficulty) required to install a ZIF SSD is exactly equal to the amount of work/difficulty level required to install a ZIF Hard Drive. CF cards just slide into an adapter, no? Anyway, I am looking for specifics, .e.g. this SSD or this CF card (Manufacturer/model) from a particular source at this price. Also, for the record, I disagree with another 4200rpm hard drive upgrade being a waste of time if that drive has a larger capacity than is currently available for an X41, at a fraction of the cost.

virge · #41 Post by **virge** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:42 pm

Its actually possible to use an OEM CD and the COA on the bottom of a Thinkpad to install XP. I dunno if its for all machines, but I've done it on an A31, G40, T40, T41, R51, and X24. On the R51 I had to call Microsoft to get it activated-- all other machines activated online with no problems.

virge · #42 Post by **virge** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:52 pm

Harryc wrote:I am seeing a lot of talk and not too many real proposals here, despite having asked for that twice. Propose a cost effective upgrade within the remaining budget that will result in a sellable X41 at the end of the day and we'll do it. We have around $320 left. I'd also like to say that the amount of work (and the difficulty) required to install a ZIF SSD is exactly equal to the amount of work/difficulty level required to install a ZIF Hard Drive. CF cards just slide into an adapter, no? Anyway, I am looking for specifics, .e.g. this SSD or this CF card (Manufacturer/model) from a particular source at this price. Also, for the record, I disagree with another 4200rpm hard drive upgrade being a waste of time if that drive has a larger capacity than is currently available for an X41, at a fraction of the cost.

My thoughts: I like the ZIF hard drive idea for a couple reasons. First, its a recent development that I think is a pretty big deal for X4 owners who don't want to deal with the expense and other limitations of the 1.8" drive (slow, expensive), SSDs (expensive), or CF (capacity). The ability to use ZIF hard drives opens up an alternative upgrade channel that seems to be a good balance between price and capacity. Second, I think there would be more buyers for this type of machine than one with an expensive SSD setup. I'm not saying its not worth the upgrade-- I just think the lower cost would have a broader appeal.

ajkula66 · #43 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:36 pm

Agreed with virge...this is definitely a challenging project, and ZIF drives would be the way to go IMO...

Now, where do we go from here? My knowledge of related technology is quite modest....

And, what are the chances of avoiding "2010 error"?

Just thinking aloud...

Digitalrhino · #44 Post by **Digitalrhino** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:27 am

I also think a zif drive would be a good idea. It is the process and documentation of the hack that matters. Any individual can adapt it to their liking, such as SSD, cf card or the Samsung 120gb 5400 rpm zif drive. I found a recently finished eBay link for it, with a buy it now of $100. Search eBay for #290271306699. One of these would be a good middle ground. Larger faster drive but not as expensive as SSD's right now.

#45 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:35 am

Digitalrhino, thanks for the Ebay link. I like the 120GB Samsung HS122JC. It seems like a good sized upgrade and it is 5400rpm. We'll see if we can find one. If any member finds this drive at a reasonable price, please post here. George, as far as I can determine, the 2010 error will appear once this machine is booted. I do not know if there is an error bypass in X41 BIOS.

#46 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:51 am

The cheapest source for the Samsung 120GB HS122JC is currently at Upgradebay.com for $204.93 shipped. That is a large $$ purchase, and I'd like at least (2) members to approve before making it. That expenditure would put total invested in the X41 project at $395.

That purchase would narrow down the list of parts needed to;

X41 XP Pro Recovery CD's
External CDROM (USB) drive or X4 Ultrabase with a CDROM drive
(1) rear foot, and (2) front feet

sparta.rising · #47 Post by **sparta.rising** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:59 am

I'll second what Virge said about the XP OEM CD. I've used an OEM CD with the COA on machines from T23 to T43 to Z61t without any problem with activation. After that, if you don't want to download drivers individually, just download Software Update.

sparta.rising · #48 Post by **sparta.rising** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:14 am

Dang looking at ebay completed auctions it looked like we just missed out on 4 of those Samsung drives by a week! One sold yesterday!

But I think the 160GB 4200RPM at $115 would be a better buy than the 120GB 5400RPM at $205

#49 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:49 am

sparta.rising, thanks. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

basketb · #50 Post by **basketb** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:14 am

I agree with sparta.rising. Be patient. I think good deals will come up again. Is there a reason we couldn't wait a week or two to see what deals come in? (I see that the project may lose momentum. But patients is a virtue, too.)

#51 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:26 am

Honestly I am in no hurry, but I do owe it to the forum members to push these projects along. I have absolutely no issue waiting as long as it takes to get a better deal on the right drive. So, lets sit on this a week or two and see what comes along.

sparta.rising · #52 Post by **sparta.rising** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:01 am

You know, a funny project might be to try and fix a non-thinkpad machine to show how much more ridiculously complicated they are to disassemble. "Oh, there was a hidden latch under that label that revealed a nob that I had to turn exactly 270 degrees to open a compartment under the speaker panel that contains the screw that was keeping me from opening the case."

AvalonXIII · #53 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:35 pm

Just want to help out here. There's a new official ZIF to IDE adapter from Lenovo that's supposedly doesn't throw the 2010 error. I don't have the part number handy, but if somebody is willing to share, I think I may know where to order it. This is not a guarantee, but I'll see what I can do to help. If you guys decide on using an aftermarket ZIF to IDE adapter already, then never mind.

EDIT:
Found it guys. Go to this link for a picture of this new adapter:
http://www.laptopalkatreszek.hu/termeke ... 6/?lang=en

Official Lenovo IBM link for the adapter:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-69154

Found a US link to buy it if you guys are interested:
http://thinlineit.com/test/renewcompute ... ve-42T4451

#54 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:46 pm

I was aware of these drives, but the problem is that they are of equal (low) capacity to the old drives that came with the X41, and IIRC they are expensive. If you can get just the adapter without the drive then I am all ears

. If X41 owners could get a hold of just the adapters that don't throw 2010 errors, and if they are reasonable, then they'd be home free.

AvalonXIII · #55 Post by **AvalonXIII** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:47 pm

Harryc wrote:I was aware of these drives, but the problem is that they are of equal (low) capacity to the old drives that came with the X41, and IIRC they are expensive. If you can get just the adapter without the drive then I am all ears .

Unfortunately, I don't think anybody is selling the adapter alone

But I did post a link for the adapter with the 40GB HDD for $225, don't know what you think about that.

#56 Post by **Harryc** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:49 pm

Thanks for the offer. We're looking for high capacity drives, 120GB and up.

proaudioguy · #57 Post by **proaudioguy** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:22 pm

OK in reading all these replies it seems a "ZIF", whatever that is, is not what the computer originally came with. SO would someone care to explain what a ZIF is. I was under the impression you were simply replacing the drive with an equal to OEM part which was why I could not see the point.

#58 Post by **rkawakami** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:27 am

ZIF = Zero Insertion Force

Another way of saying that you do not have to physically put any additional pressure on the item in question, in order for it to mate with a connector of some kind. I have not personally seen this type of connection when used on a hard drive. I would assume that it's part of a mounting system where you do not have to "force" the drive's data and power pins into a matching socket. Gravity and guide pins usually provide the means necessary to align the connections (metal pads on one side and springs on the other).

proaudioguy · #59 Post by **proaudioguy** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:52 am

rkawakami wrote:ZIF = Zero Insertion Force

Another way of saying that you do not have to physically put any additional pressure on the item in question, in order for it to mate with a connector of some kind. I have not personally seen this type of connection when used on a hard drive. I would assume that it's part of a mounting system where you do not have to "force" the drive's data and power pins into a matching socket. Gravity and guide pins usually provide the means necessary to align the connections (metal pads on one side and springs on the other).

Yes of course I know what it means in regards to a CPU.

#60 Post by **rkawakami** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:02 am

Okay... had some time to go a'googling

With that in mind, Toshiba engineered a new connector on recent drives that is vastly smaller than the previous models. These new drives sport a Zero Insertion Force (ZIF) connector, which, unlike the older iPods, requires no pressure to connect the cable. Simply holding the hair-thin ribbon cable in place and folding down a clamp-like lock will secure all 40 pins in a staggeringly small, fragile connector. The connector on the 5G iPods’ logic boards is now no wider than your thumbnail, and it, too is quite delicate. Such is the way of ever-shrinking consumer electronics.

ref: http://www.command-tab.com/2007/03/11/u ... rd-drives/
ref: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/features ... pod_2.html

Thinkpads.com X41 Project - (Pic Warning)

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