600 and standby mode

[Rob Mayercik]

I have been fiddling around for quite a while trying to figure out how to make my 600 (2645-45U) behave properly when you open and close the lid.

I'm running Win98SE, and the latest BIOS as listed on IBM's site.

When I close the lid, I get a series of beeps from the laptop, and then it seems to go into standby, but when I open the lid, I get a black screen with a clinking curson at the top left, and it never recovers.

Before I upgraded the HDD, OS, and BIOS, it worked fine, though it only threw one beep when I closed the lid.

Any thoughts?

TP600 2645-45U, 288MB RAM, 12GB HDD, FASTMOTTT DVD/CDRW, Win98SE

[pkiff]

Are you able to go into standby mode using the Fn keys, leaving the lid open? (i.e. is this a closing the lid action problem or is it a not wanting to go into standby or suspend mode problem)

Also, do you have any PCMCIA cards plugged in? I have experienced the three beep refusal to suspend/standby with both a 770E and a 600X when they are docked in a docking station with certain peripherals that refuse to let them suspend. Some PCMCIA card I think also refuse to give up the system properly and allow the laptop to suspend.

Phil.

[MadeInJapan]

Open Power Management (and change the way the laptop behaves when you shut the screen) and set how stand-by is enabled, among other thing related. You can access it by right clicking on an empty part of your desktop and slecting properties. Next, click on the tab for screen savers and at the bottom of that screen you will see where you can go into it. Good luck.

[Rob Mayercik]

I want the computer to suspend when I shut the lid, and come out of it when I open the lid back up.

The appropriate checkbox is checked in the power management settings.

It doesn't seem to be refusing to go into suspend mode - I get a half-dozen or more beeps, then I hear the drives spin down and the second green light by the left side hinge lights up. When I open the lid, it seems to try to start to wake back up but only gets as far as a black screen with a blinking cursor. Interestingly enough, when I ran Win98 1st edition on the old hard drive and the old BIOS, I only got one beep when I closed the lid.

I'll try the Fn keys again tonight - I know that doesn't work either, but I don't remember exactly what it does when I try this way. I'll let you know in the morning.

As to PCMCIA cards, I have a 3Com ethernet card (an old 10MB one) in the lower of the two slots, but back when I had the old HDD and BIOS and was running 98 1st edition, it didn't matter that I had that docked - it suspended and resumed fine. Does it matter which slot it's in?

Also, come to think of it, the last time it suspended and resumed properly I didn't have the FASTMOTT drive - just the OEM CDROM.

Could it be something in the BIOS? I tried putting in the old drive a week or two ago and it didn't suspend/resume properly either.

I'll double-check the BIOS version tonight as well, but I'm pretty sure I'm running IBET54WW.

Rob

[pkiff]

Don't know how far I'll be able to help you on this one, but here's a couple additional troubleshooting steps to narrow down the issue, and one quick suggestion:

Suggestion:
- Have you tried waiting a really long time for the laptop to finish coming out of the suspend state? - If not, then try leaving it for an hour, sitting there with the cursor blinking. I'm serious, I vaguely remember waiting for my 770E for 20 minutes or more to come out of a suspend state due to some weirdness, and then it eventually did come out. And then the next time it returned alot faster. I think this had something to do with a registry or temp directory that was getting too large or too fragmented. Oh, and just to be safe, you might try setting your Power settings to ALWAYS ON while you are doing this, so that the machine does not mysteriously try to drop into suspend again during startup because it is sitting there so long doing nothing (again, seriously, I think this can happen in Windows 98SE). -- Your manual Fn Suspend key should still force the suspend action to take place, regardless of your Power settings.

Troubleshooting:

HALF DOZEN BEEPS:
I don't know why this is. This issue seems the closest to your problem. Is it possible that your battery is running out of power and the beeps are some kind of low power warning? That would explain why it won't return from suspend. Make sure to boot, suspend, return all while plugged directly into AC and see if your symptoms continue. Still, I don't think you should be getting all those beeps. Maybe there is some kind of program/process running in the background that doesn't want to be stopped? Like a network monitor or something? Before trying to suspend, close all programs, and then use CTRL-ALT-DEL to check to see if there are any additional weird programs running. I would be tempted to start closing unidentified processes down manually so that all that was left was EXPLORER and SYSTRAY and DAEMON (Trackpoint) before trying to Suspend and see if that makes any difference.

FASTMOTT:
I doubt the problem is the FASTMOTT drive as it is probably relatively new compared to the machine, but you can check to see if it is the culprit by pulling it out and booting up without it, or booting with some other UltraSlimBay device. Maybe that's what you did already ("I tried putting in the old drive...")

PCMCIA:
It shouldn't matter which slot the card is in. Windows 98SE has PCMCIA drivers built-in. I forget if Windows 98 original does or not. That is, there are generic PCMCIA Card and Socket Service drivers for using PCMCIA Services and then there are the drivers you may also need that go with your Ethernet card. Older versions of Windows didn't have either of them, but Windows 98SE has built-in Card and Socket Services. Did you have to load special PCMCIA Card and Socket Services before your upgrade? If so, then maybe there is a conflict with the new PCMCIA Services? Or your system is trying to access the old drivers instead of using the built in drivers? In any case, you can check this simply by testing with all PCMCIA cards removed.

Fn KEYS:
If the Function keys don't work, then the problem is unrelated to your lid/open/close settings. The problem is that you system is not suspending properly, or not resuming from suspend properly.

Phil.

[carbon_unit]

It seems that most thinkpads like to use the fn key to wake up have you tried that?
I had lots of issues with suspend on win98 and I eventually disabled it.

[Rob Mayercik]

Phil:

I haven't let it go more than a couple of minutes when it does get into suspend before giving up. Perhaps I should have.

"half-dozen beeps": I tried it again last night, and it gave more than that - it beeped about once/second and never stopped. After about 30 seconds, I gave up and opened the lid. The computer appeared never to have gone into standby.

Fn Keys: it didn't seem to respond to all of these - Fn-F4 didn't work, and neither did Fn-F12 (or whatever hibernate is). Where closing the lid causes a series of high-pitched beeps, Fn-4 causes a lower-pitched sound, more like a "boop" than a "beep". Fn-F3 (standby) does work, but all that does that I can see is it switches off the LCD.

Also, I don't have all that much running - the only new thing since it last suspended right is the AVG anti-virus scanner. I will try shutting that down before closing the lid - maybe that's doing something to me.

PCMCIA: Both versions of Win98 detected the 3Com card automatically and I didn't need to load any drivers for it. I used whatever was supplied by Windows.

FASTMOTT: By "old drive" I meant the old hard drive - sorry I wasn't clearer on that.

I played around a while last night, and confirmed that I'm running BIOS IBET54WW. Of course, I also messed with the config of Windows and switched the system over from APM to ACPI - I will put it back to APM tonight, hopefully without screwing things up any worse than I already have.

Rob

[sktn77a]

The problem may be with WIN 98SE. The 600/E series was designed to work with 95/98. WIN 98SE had some problems with shutdown (have you installed the WIN 98SE shutdown supplement from Microsoft?)

[pkiff]

The 600/E should work as well as any machine ever does that was supposed to be designed for Windows 95/98 - I don't think that compatibility with Windows 98SE is an issue in this case (though admittedly, I don't actually own a 600/E, I own a 770E and a 600X. I figure though that the 770E is probably almost identical to the 600/E as far as most Windows 98SE Operating System issues are concerned)

The Windows Shutdown Supplement only helps out in certain very specific cases I think (regardless of what Microsoft documents may say) and I'm pretty sure that it ONLY addresses the issue of a system hanging during shutdown, not problems related to power management/suspend/restore.

Phil.

[pkiff]

Rob:

I'm starting to get confused about what the symptoms are on your machine.

First off, if you can, return everything to using APM mode. Windows 98SE doesn't play so well with ACPI, regardless of the machine you are using, and certainly some of your Power Management settings will not work if you are using ACPI. Speaking of ACPI, I don't even know how to switch from ACPI to APM or back in Windows 98SE. Aren't these settings buried deep in the system settings somewhere where you can't even change them? In any case, if you can get everything back to APM do so.

Now it appears that you cannot supend using Fn-F4. In your earlier postings, it appeared that you could supend okay, but that you couldn't get out of suspend mode -- i.e. the 2nd green light from the left would go on indicating that you were suspended, but you couldn't return from supend, or you could only return as far as getting a blinking cursor in the top-left.

I hope we haven't made things worse and now you can't suspend at all!

When you get home, try some of the different suggestions above, including especially, removing all extra hardware (especially PCMCIA cards), plugging in directly to AC current, and trying to suspend using only the Fn-F4 key, leaving your laptop open. If your system will not suspend using the Fn-F4 key, then I am almost certain it will not suspend when you close the lid -- in fact, this could be the reason why you are getting the beeps -- the system is notifying you that although you have set it to suspend on close, there is an error preventing it from doing so.

Stray Notes:

(1) Have you tried to reinstall your Power Management utilities?

(2) Carbon_unit's comment above is quite right -- when you are trying to recover from "Suspend" mode, try tapping the Fn key multiple times.

(3) Fn-F12 - Don't worry about this. The "Hibernate" Function will only work after you have enabled it in your Power Management Settings.

(4) Fn-F3 - Don't worry about this, it appears to be functioning correctly (it's called "Standby" mode, but for most practical purposes, all it does is perform "screen blanking").

(5) Fn-F4 - "boop" sound. I think I know the sound you mean and I think it shows up when you try to use a key that is not a valid function. Might this be because of fiddling with APM/ACPI settings?

Oh, and the User Guide for the 600X contains this supremely unhelpful (and unhopeful) advice about the following issues (I didn't check the ThinkPad 600 User Guide):

Issue:
The screen is blank and you hear a continuous beep, or two or more beeps.
Solution:
Have the computer serviced.

Issue:
Only the cursor appears.
Solution:
Reinstall your operating system, and power on the computer. If you still have a problem, have the computer serviced.

Issue:
Your computer does not enter suspend or hibernation mode.
Solution:
Check if any option has been selected to disable your computer from entering suspend or hibernation mode. For more information Online User's Guide.

So, no help there obviously.(!)

Phil.

[Rob Mayercik]

Ok, I got the system back to APM - took a while, and some things in Device Manager are appearing twice (such as the DMA controller), but everything seems to work, so I'll worry about that later.

Once I got back to APM, I tried pressing Fn-F4. This time, I got the Redi-Safe screen (I had turned it on the other day, thinking it might help). After about 30 seconds and only a couple of beeps, the system did go into suspend mode (LCD off, 2nd green light from left lit, hard drive and CPU fan spun down). I didn't have anything in the CD drive.

I waited a few seconds and tapped the Fn key. The hard drive spun up, the screen came on (blank screen with blinking cursor), and that was all. I left it sit for 40-45 minutes, before giving up and pressing the reset switch. The laptop was connected to AC mains power the entire time, and the PCMCIA card (3c589 E-link III) was docked as well. As I mentioned before, having that PCMCIA card docked before didn't matter, though I'm willing to concede that perhaps 98 and 98SE behave differently around PCMCIA stuff.

I didn't try closing the lid - figured I'd get more info from the function key sequence.

So, it seems I'm back to the original problem - it goes into suspend but doesn't come back out. I haven't tried reinstalling the power utilities yet, but I can do that tonight.

Also, I checked my 600 User Guide, and see the same useless suggestions.

Rob

[whizkid]

Since you just did a BIOS upgrade, you might want to Initialize in EasySetup. IBM recommends it each time you upgrade. The BIOS issue list for the 600 is large, so some settings may be wacky.

If it were me, I would reformat the drive and re-install everything. Partly because I'm a little anal about what's on my machine, and partly because I tried to install W98SE on a 600E once without using IBM's instructions and could not get it to suspend correctly. (The system was using ACPI and I couldn't get it to stop.)

Once I formatted and installed using IBM's info, everything was peachy.

[pkiff]

Mmmm...I'm starting to run out of ideas. Clearly it is a problem returning from Suspend.

I'm not sure what you mean about the PCMCIA card being "docked" during your testing. Does that mean it is plugged in? I would try it with the PCMCIA card entirely removed from the slot -- though I'm starting to think that you are right and that probably won't make much difference.

I don't use the Hibernation files generally and so don't have Redisafe turned on either (this option only appears after you enable Hibernation). I'm not sure what effect this might be having. If you have Hibernation enabled in your Power Management settings, then your Fn-F12 key should also work. If Fn-F12 doesn't work to Hibernate, then you are also having difficulty hibernating, and I would recommend turning off Hibernation (and therefore, RediSafe) until you can get the Suspend function fixed. That way you can isolate the Suspend problem from the possible, additional Hiberation problem. Once Suspend is working correctly, then you can go back and turn Hibernation on again (and hopefully it will recreate the Hibernation file fresh, and this will fix the Hibernation problem too).

If you haven't done so already, you might consider doing a full system backup now or at least a backup of all you document/user files on the laptop.

Whizkid's suggestion of Initializing in EasySetup is a good one, if you haven't already done so.

I'm not sure what steps you followed when you upgraded from Windows 98. Here is the IBM page describing compatibility issues and recommended steps for upgrading (including specific mention of the need to use APM mode with Windows 98SE):
Windows 98 Second Edition setup guide - ThinkPad General

Short of reinstalling the system from scratch, you might check a couple other things, related to the upgrade to Windows 98SE.

Updates for installation of Windows 98 SE in APM mode - ThinkPad General
If you didn't use this file during the upgrade process, then it is worth trying to use it now, even though I am not sure how well it works after installation/upgrade. I think you only need the apminst.reg file and you should be able to right-click it and select "Merge" with registry then reboot and that's it.

Battery MaxiMiser and Power Management features for Windows - ThinkPad General
Reinstall this, or install a fresh version. It possibly might help fix some kind of weird incompatibility problem between your settings/registry under Windows 98 original and your new settings under Windows 98SE.

And here is some additional information related to Power Management issues and Windows 98SE:
Using and understanding the IBM ThinkPad advanced power management features - ThinkPad General

Phil.

[Rob Mayercik]

Phil:

1. By "docked" I mean plugged in. I'll take it out again tonight and see if it helps.

2. I will disable Redi-Safe and Hibernation tonight - I turned them on thinking they would help.

3. When I upgraded to 98SE, I did a clean install on a blank hard drive, and I installed in APM mode. I followed the IBM procedure you linked to.

Whizkid: I did the BIOS upgrade back in July - I did that when I replaced the HDD and upgraded to 98SE. It was all part of getting my 802.11(g) card to work - 98 1st edition wouldn't recognize it. This suspend/resume problem has been plaguing me since then.

Also, I did try the "initialize" function last night - I think that may have in part allowed me to get from not suspending at all to suspending and not resuming last night.

I even ran the motherboard diagnostics in EasySetup - it passed ok. I can't remember how to get into the advanced diags, though.

Rob

[MadeInJapan]

Seems that there is an INF file in the supplement section for Win98SE that has to be loaded. It's at the bottom of the list on the IBM Driver's page. I recall having some kind of suspend/resume issue until I loaded this. For Japanese windows 98SE we called this the "Ito Fix." I'm thinking that some guy called "Ito," who worked for IBM Japan figured this out, but I may be wrong.

[pkiff]

I think the INF file you are talking about is the same one I link to above in the "Updates for installation of Windows 98 SE in APM mode - ThinkPad General". There is a Registry Fix and also an INF file. The INF file is used during the actual installtion of Windows 98SE by putting it in the CABS directory or by running it from Disk as an option added to the SETUP command.

The Windows 98 Supplementary File Disk also includes both of these files bundled together with several other files, including one that is used to force Windows 98 to recognize the ThinkPad LCD correctly.

But I'm not sure that the INF file (APMINST.INF) will have any effect except if it is run during SETUP. It adds a line to the Registry that prevents the Windows 98 install routine from automatically installing in ACPI mode by telling it that the system BIOS is too early for ACPI (Windows will automatically install in ACPI mode if it detects a system BIOS later than a certain date). Here's a copy of the relevant Registry entry command:

Code: Select all

[APM.Install]
; The following line will allow the system dated after 12/02/99 BIOS 
; install APM 
HKLM,Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Detect,"ACPIOption",1,2

The Registry fix (APMINST.REG) is something you apply after running the Windows installation routine. All it does is add a single line to your Registry as well, and it also has to do with detection of APM vs ACPI modes, but I'm not sure what exactly this line does. Here is the relevant entry that is added:

Code: Select all

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Detect]
"ACPIOption"=dword:00000002

Mmmmm....now that I've cut and pasted from the files and look at the two registry entries side by side like that, I think they probably should both be installed together, rather than just doing the second Registry fix only, even after installation is completed...it can't hurt anyways.

In Rob's case, I originally thought he was upgrading his installation from Windows 98 to 98SE, so only the second APMINST.REG file would apply. But on a clean install of 98SE, both will probably apply.

Phil

[Rob Mayercik]

Fooled around with the thing again last night - even tried the Power Management Troubleshooter.

I think I screwed it up again - now it doesn't suspend again (2nd green light blinks, but screen doesn't shut off, have to use reset button to get system back). Also, I seem to have lost the ability to get audio when playing MIDI files.

As a result, I'm going to spend the weekend starting all over from scratch - I'll back stuff up, format the drive, and start clean again. I'll let you folks know how it turns out.

Rob

[pkiff]

Sorry we couldn't help fix it -- and maybe we made it worse. If you are going to do a fresh install of Windows 98SE from a Microsoft Windows 98SE disk (and not from an IBM Recovery Disk), then you might consider trying the instructions posted here:
PKIFF - ThinkPad - 600X - Windows 98SE - Installation

This was written for a 600X, so you will of course have to make sure to use the appropriate 600 driver files instead of those for the 600X, but the install sequence should be correct as well as references to generic ThinkPad utilities and install steps.

The instructions are a lot shorter than would appear at first glance, since I've actually copied some sets of instructions for driver installs directly into the sequence -- I found this easier than having to double-check the setup notes for every driver.

I've used more or less this same sequence on my 770E, 770Z, and 600X and all of them suspend and resume correctly. I only have Hibernate enabled on one machine: the 770Z. But it hibernates correctly on that machine.

Good luck,

Phil.

[JHEM]

Which part of the state are you in Rob?

Regards,

James

[pkiff]

Quick Followup to my 98SE Install Advice above.

For the 600, you will want to be careful about the modem drivers. It looks like there are several options as well as at least one patch related to the internal modem. This is not the same as on the 600X and I don't know what the correct procedures are for these.

Secondly, it looks like the instructions for the Supplementary File Disk are different for the 600 than for the 600X. In particular, there is a second registry patch (the DOCKSUSP.reg) that may be necessary for the 600 -- it specifically mentions this as a fix for suspend problems when using PCMCIA modems. Mmmm...maybe THAT is the patch that MadeinJapan was referring to in the post a few days ago? I don't know.

Further info available here:
Windows 98 installation supplement files - ThinkPad 600, 760, 765, 770

Phil.

[Rob Mayercik]

Phil:

I dont' think you guys had really anything to do with making things worse - I think my fooling about in registry during the APPM-ACPI-APM switch was the big factor, and I did that myself.

I'll probably go to the trouble of downloading all the drivers again so I am sure that I have the newest set, and I'll have the installation instructions you posted a link to as well as the IBM document for the plain 600 at my side when I do start the rebuild.

I'll take a look at that docksupp patch, but if the internal modem isn't a PCMCIA one, it may not have an effect. Can't hurt to check, though.


James: I'm up in Hunterdon County - was thinking about hitting the MarketPro show tomorrow in Somerset, but that will depend on the weather.

Rob

[JHEM]

James: I'm up in Hunterdon County - was thinking about hitting the MarketPro show tomorrow in Somerset, but that will depend on the weather.

Shame, that's bit too far for a quick run. I was going to offer you the use of a set of 600 recovery CDs.

I wouldn't be thinking of going anywhere tomorrow! Depending on which weather forecast one listens to, you're geting up to a foot of the white stuff up your way. More north of 78, significantly less to the south.

Regards,

James

[Rob Mayercik]

Thanks for the thought, James - it's appreciated. I'll just download a fresh set of stuff from IBM (not as if I'll have many places to go later today!).

I plan to burn an image of the drive once everything's working to my satisfaction this time, to simplify my life in the future.

All reports I'm hearing thus far (primarily NJ101.5) is that the main storm won't hit till mid-day, so I am gonig to make a quick run down there to see what they've got (my sister's starting to look for a laptop, so I offered to take her along and show her what's available on the show scene such as used Thinkpads). I don't plan to be back to the house later than say noonish or so, which should keep me ahead of the front.

If I do get caught in it, I'll just take my time and enjoy - it's the kind of weather forecast Jeeps live for, after all.

Take care, and enjoy whatever snow you get.

Rob

[Rob Mayercik]

Update:

Finally got finished rebuilding my drive, and I seem to be resuming again. It takes about a minute or so, but it does eventually get there.

Now, if it still works after I run Windows Update, I'm all set.

Thanks to everyone who provided ideas/advice.

Rob