will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

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mattbiernat
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will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#1 Post by mattbiernat » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:36 pm

okay so I got x300, 1.2ghz, 64gb drive and 3gb ram. will i get a significant speed/ boot up increase if i nlite Vista. i don't care about saving hard drive space that much.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#2 Post by mgo » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:24 pm

mattbiernat wrote:okay so I got x300, 1.2ghz, 64gb drive and 3gb ram. will i get a significant speed/ boot up increase if i nlite Vista. i don't care about saving hard drive space that much.
I think you might mean "Vlite" (since Nlite is for XP)? In my real world, actual experience with Vlite, there isn't enough of a improvement to make all the work worth the effort.

Instead, just set Vista's "Advanced System Settings" tweak to "adjust for best performance" and that will make a difference. I use shadow under mouse and shadow and smooth desktop fonts for improved look in Best Performance. This will give you the "Classic" GUI, rather than the default Vista interface. It's a cleaner look and easier on the eye, in my opinion.

This will turn off the Aero and you might also want disable the Sidebar, which I do not care for. Expect a 5% to 20% speed improvement.

If you are a Tech Net subscriber, you could install Windows Server 2008 and set it up as a workstation using some online hacks (they are safe and OK to use) or you could install Vista N which is faster, too.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#3 Post by Marin85 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:45 am

Unlike nLite for XP, my experience with vLite is that it mostly makes things worse (performance-wise). Tweaking Vista in the old-fashioned way worked always much better for me ;)
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#4 Post by mattbiernat » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:09 pm

hmmm interesting. i will leave it alone then. i guess Vista works so much different than XP. I can't wait for 7 to come out thou but it will be still a little while. I wish I could have an almost instant on with my X300. my current boot time is 45s with NOD32. I would like to have a 20 second one since I do have an SSD in there and 3GB of ram. I know some people configured their XP to boot in 20seconds but that is almost bare bone configuration and not really something that I want.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#5 Post by Marin85 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:38 pm

mattbiernat wrote:my current boot time is 45s with NOD32.
:eek: Mate, that´s about my boot time, but unlike you I don´t have a SSD. NOD32 is not that resources consuming AV either. Are you sure everything is all right with your setup? How do you measure your boot time?

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#6 Post by mattbiernat » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:27 pm

at the moment i press power button i press my stop watch.
when the little circle stops turning i turn off my stop watch.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#7 Post by Stargate199 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:09 pm

Okay, my lappy has a 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, and 2GB of ram. I used vLite to modify a Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit install remove a bunch of crap I don't use. Boot up is about 20 seconds. I decided to use Avira AntiVir Personal Free for antivirus and it did not affect any boot up performance. It hardly takes up any memory. The only thing I hate is that it has a ad popup every time it does a definition update, but it is a small price to pay for little impact on Windows performance and being free after all.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#8 Post by mattbiernat » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:23 pm

cool can you make a list of things that you got rid off?

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#9 Post by Marin85 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:46 am

Stargate199 wrote:Okay, my lappy has a 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, and 2GB of ram. I used vLite to modify a Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit install remove a bunch of crap I don't use. Boot up is about 20 seconds.
I don´t believe this :P unless you have removed everything removable by vLite, which would then mean your setup is almost unusable, at least for a regular user.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#10 Post by Stargate199 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:07 pm

Okay, I actually did time it. The time is from after POST to the Login screen. Time 26.9 seconds. This is a straight up clean OEM install with the antivirus program mentioned earlier installed. After I login in my desktop appears in 2 seconds. The system is completely stable. I can't remember everything I disabled, but it was a lot of useless function that I would never use like smartcard, tablet PC functions, Media Center. I also disabled a bunch of services. The most critical one I disabled was Superfetch. With superfetch off, bootup is way fast. Honestly with the power of CPUs today, superfetch is just a waste of CPU cycles.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#11 Post by Marin85 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:46 pm

Stargate199 wrote:The most critical one I disabled was Superfetch. With superfetch off, bootup is way fast. Honestly with the power of CPUs today, superfetch is just a waste of CPU cycles.
I couldn´t agree more!

As for the boot process, could you time it until reaching usable desktop, e.g. being ready to browse the web with your preferred browser? The point is that Vista loads in general quite fast to desktop (e.g. only 3-4 loads in the loadbar), but then the user has to wait until reaching some state of usability of Vista (like being ready to start Word, or opening and browsing the web). Thanks.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#12 Post by mattbiernat » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:20 pm

superfetch does help in loading your applications faster. you might gain a boot time adventage but load times on apps will be slower.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#13 Post by Stargate199 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:43 pm

@ Marin85

Just because you asked, I did another time test on my boot up. This time is from I press the power button to when I get to a usable desktop. The time was 59.5 seconds. Keep in mind that I did have to logon and I do have a boot menu for different OS (Vista and 7 Beta right now). So without those two things, you could shave off about 5-7 seconds off that time. The only things I have load on startup is the little OneNote sticky app and my antivirus.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#14 Post by Marin85 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:01 am

@Stargate199: Thanks for doing this little timing! So, basically you also came around the 50 secs ;)

@mattbiernat: Well, yes, that´s the role of superfetch in theory, but in real-life it´s pretty useless if one has a fast HD like Hitachi 7K200 or even a SSD like in your case ;)
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#15 Post by neenee » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:58 am

Memory is always faster than disk i/o whether it's SSD or not. Leave superfetch. You gain nothing by disabling it.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#16 Post by Marin85 » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:15 am

neenee wrote:Memory is always faster than disk i/o whether it's SSD or not. Leave superfetch. You gain nothing by disabling it.
With all due respect I have to disagree. If you measure the startup times of any piece of software on first startup after boot, you will find out that there is not the slightest difference in these times with superfetch enabled or disabled (provided 7200rpm HD or faster). Once started for a first time, the program is cached by Vista in the memory (Task Manager -> physical memory -> cached) regardless of the fact if superfetch is enabled or disabled (and hence fast second launch for most pieces of software). What is more, superfetch/prefetch is the main reason for the prolonged HD activity on regular basis after Vista has booted up. So, the only case superfetch reasonably kicks in is with slower HDs like my Toshiba 120GB 5400rpm. In this case superfetch can really make a difference.

Cheers

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#17 Post by hellosailor » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:18 pm

Matt, when you have slow boot times, one has to ask "Why are you doing cold boots?"

With any version of NT, when you do a cold boot the system enumerates and validates all the hardware are drivers, and that takes time. BUT, YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO DO ROUTINE COLD BOOTS.

For routine use, especially on a laptop, you sleep/suspend/hibernate (depending on the OS and how long you go between restarts) instead. I'm using Vista Ultimate, used Windows2000 on the last machine, use XP sporadically as well.

My "boot" times are ten seconds or less, because I use SLEEP mode. I don't do cold boots unless the system needs to reset, or I'm going to leave it shut and disconnected from AC for a full day or longer.

I doubt you'll see faster cold boots in Windows 7 (which apparently will be NT6.1 not NT7) as long as it has to do the same things--count all the fingers and toes before it is fully operable.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#18 Post by mattbiernat » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:12 pm

hellosailor wrote:Matt, when you have slow boot times, one has to ask "Why are you doing cold boots?"
Reason 1
because after my computer hibernates it then goes to sleep and from sleep it shuts itself down. so i don't hibernate and i don't sleep. i just shut it down.
Reason 2
i wake up early in the morning and it is a nice feeling to see my computer wake up with me. and then that nice Vista music playing after it is done waking up. it makes me feel more awake and ready to go to school.

Question 2
can i use vlite for a preloaded system. i do have original recovery CDs.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#19 Post by hellosailor » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:55 pm

"because after my computer hibernates it then goes to sleep and from sleep it shuts itself down. so i don't hibernate and i don't sleep. i just shut it down."
Something may be very wrong there, then. Because AFAIK there's no way that Vista systems will "change" from sleep to hibernate, or vice versa. And they don't go from sleep to shutdown, either. Whichever mode you pick--of the three--is the one that the machine stays in.

The one possible exception to this would be if the computer passed the critical battery threshold while in sleep mode. That might (I haven't confirmed this) cause the system to wake and perform a shutdown--if and only if the power options were set to shut down on critical battery threshold.

In sleep mode the computer still consumes a little power. In hibernate mode, it should not consume any power, it should write the memory state to hard drive and then power down.

Possibly you are getting these modes confused with "hybrid sleep" mode, which is still problematic. If any of your power settings have "hybrid sleep" mode enabled--get rid of it.

If the modes are changing all by themselves and critical battery thresholds are not involved, you've got bigger problems, like an OS corruption, malware waking the computer, or a hardware failure. Because the power down modes just DON'T change by themselves. Not on this planet.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#20 Post by Stargate199 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:47 pm

mattbiernat wrote:
Question 2
can i use vlite for a preloaded system. i do have original recovery CDs.
Are you talking about the hidden partition? If so, the only way it could work is if you can gain access to it within Windows. Windows recognizes recovery partitions and will not let you see the contents (it won't mount the partition for access). You will need a program that can mount that partition, then you should be able to use vLite to modify the installation. Now if you can burn a set of recovery disks (Lenovo's Rescue and Recovery can do this), you should be able to modify the install on those disks as well as long as they didn't go and mess up the way all the install files are sorted because then vLite won't be able to find a valid install and do any modifications.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#21 Post by mattbiernat » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:59 pm

okay perhaps my perception is wrong regarding the change from sleep to hibernate. all i know is that i press hibernate and when i want to wake up my laptop i see the little moon led blinking, then nothing. and then i get frustrated and i have to do cold reboot. i have resinstalled the O.S. but even on clean instal there are problems with hibernation but not as often. someone actually started a similar thread on this here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=72080

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#22 Post by hellosailor » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:13 pm

Notebooks have come a long way since Win98, when sleep modes just usually didn't work.

In a new machine with a new OS, it is possible that there's a bad driver, call tech support to see if they have this documented. Or check around the web. If there are just two of you having the problem--odds are it isn't happening to everyone and there's a cure.

Software of all kinds (antivirus, background communications/sync programs, etc.) can interfere with sleep modes, especially if you have something old installed that doesn't know how to let go of the hardware and the OS when the system sends around a power down message.

"even on clean instal" from retail? or from the factory media/recovery discs?

I had a number of odd problems, and someone else popped up with a thread saying the SD-card reader is a known issue, if there's a card in it, sometimes certain operations (directory reads, shutdowns, starts) bog down mad time. The drivers for the SD card reader are simply defective, dangerously defective, and Lenono claims to know nothing about it. But, the problem can be documented and repeated and confirmed six ways from Sunday. Who'd think an SD card could crash the system that way? But it does.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#23 Post by Marin85 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:09 am

Stargate199 wrote: Are you talking about the hidden partition? If so, the only way it could work is if you can gain access to it within Windows. Windows recognizes recovery partitions and will not let you see the contents (it won't mount the partition for access). You will need a program that can mount that partition, then you should be able to use vLite to modify the installation. Now if you can burn a set of recovery disks (Lenovo's Rescue and Recovery can do this), you should be able to modify the install on those disks as well as long as they didn't go and mess up the way all the install files are sorted because then vLite won't be able to find a valid install and do any modifications.
I believe Vista can see the "hidden" partition the way it sees any normal partition. At least this was the case when some time back I mistakenly received Lenovo restore DVDs for Vista and not for XP. Unlike with XP, the "hidden" partition was present under Computer (that´s Vista´s My Computer). It definitely wasn´t a regural windows OS partition and pretty useless for a regular access (some folders with some combinations of numbers and letters for names), I believe it was compressed and encrypted version of Windows just the way the factory restore DVDs from Lenovo are. This is a reason why vLite or nLite depending on the OS won´t be able to do anything with it.

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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#24 Post by hellosailor » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:29 am

"I believe Vista can see the "hidden" partition the way it sees any normal partition."
Yes, Disk Mangler [sic] shows the hidden IBM R&R partition in Vista. MyComputer won't show it. But the NT OS does see these things.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#25 Post by Marin85 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:37 am

hellosailor wrote:MyComputer won't show it. But the NT OS does see these things.
Are you sure about MyComputer? I´m asking this just because I remember I was quite surprised to see this thing under Computer in Vista and I´m pretty sure it was the "hidden partition" and nothing else I could have taken for it.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#26 Post by hellosailor » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:46 am

Yes, I'm sure. I just checked that before posting.

Of course, a partition can be HIDDEN or simply not set to ACTIVE, and I' not sure which criteria the OS is using for the displays. Different software--especially partition/boot managers--can leave things in odd states that change how the partitions are treated.
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Re: will nlite significantly speed up my Windows Vista?

#27 Post by Marin85 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:21 pm

Ok, thanks for the check! I wonder what I must have seen then :??:
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