Last IBM ThinkPad

[winston.oyy]

A slight distraction from topic: X61 tablet going for $649 on Lenovo US website with 1 year warranty. The last 4:3!

I've got this feeling that widescreens are the ones that are truly marked Lenovo compared to 4:3s, which are largely an IBM feature.

[ssd_thinkpad]

I've got this feeling that widescreens are the ones that are truly marked Lenovo compared to 4:3s, which are largely an IBM feature.

There are no more manufacturers for 4:3 inch displays on market, its as simple like that. Lenovo would have to convince these manufacturers very hard to change whole production system just for a lenovo order.

[zetheroo]

Sorry to revive an older thread ... but my T42 has got Lenovo all over the bottom of it ... so maybe the T41 was the last through and through IBM Thinkpad from the T Series !?

[dr_st]

Sorry to revive an older thread ... but my T42 has got Lenovo all over the bottom of it ... so maybe the T41 was the last through and through IBM Thinkpad from the T Series !?

My T42 has only IBM logos and doesn't say Lenovo anywhere, but it does say "Made in China", and it definitely was manufactured by Lenovo. As was the T41. And probably earlier as well.

And some Thinkpads (i series, G series, R40) were manufactured by Acer. So it's hard to define anything as "IBM through and through".

[ajkula66]

The way I look at it, the last IBM-designed laptops were T43/p, R52 and X41/T. Having said that, I've owned both T42 and T43 machines with Lenovo logos on lids and palmrest, let alone the bottom of the machine.

With Z-series came 20V AC adapter and "windows" key which I recognize as Lenovo's trademarks.

On deciphering what was built where, and by whom...good luck. It was a mess in IBM days, with production moving from U.S. to Mexico to China...

And certain ThinkPads were still built in the U.S. as late as 2007...maybe even later than that, but that's the last I've seen...

My $0.02 only...

[ThinkRob]

There are no more manufacturers for 4:3 inch displays on market, its as simple like that.

Apart from the manufacturer(s) for the iPad's panel...

[ThinkRob]

The way I look at it, the last IBM-designed laptops were T43/p, R52 and X41/T.

Take this with a grain of salt, but I've heard third-hand that the design of the X60 was basically all but done before the IBM->Lenovo hand-off started. It wasn't built by then, but from what I heard, the engineers who designed it were 100% IBM at the time (although just barely...)

[ajkula66]

Oh, I agree - by all means - that X60 and T60 have "IBM design team" written all over them...

However, if one has to cut the rope somewhere, I personally feel that the "windows" key and new type of AC adapter are good enough reason for cutting it there, after R5x/T4x/X4x generation...

My observations only...

[Norway Pad]

When we talk about this, I came across an interesting article, translated from Lenovo's Chinese magazine Lenovoice. Lenovo's developing department, referred to as the Yamato Office, was established in the early 80's, as a part of IBM. And in the late 80's they developed a notebook here which became a predecessor of the first ThinkPad. I don't know if this office was a part of Lenovo/Legend back then, but there seem to be a link between ThinkPad and Chinese developing that goes further back than most people are aware of.

The first signs of contact between Lenovo and IBM was in late 2003. That was when, according to one of the chairmen in Lenovo: "IBM indicated that it was willing to cooperate with us". This was a part of IBM's big plan to get rid of it's personal computer division, that didn't pay off as well as IBM was used to from back in the mainframe days. The year before, in 2002, they outsourced other parts of their hardware manufacturing to Sanmina, and the final deal was made through the official sale to Lenovo in 2005.

[Unknown_K]

I've got this feeling that widescreens are the ones that are truly marked Lenovo compared to 4:3s, which are largely an IBM feature.

There are no more manufacturers for 4:3 inch displays on market, its as simple like that. Lenovo would have to convince these manufacturers very hard to change whole production system just for a lenovo order.

That may be true for laptops, but I just recently purchased a new 19" 4:3 Samsung LCD monitor (943BT) for my desktop computer.

[skam]

That may be true for laptops, but I just recently purchased a new 19" 4:3 Samsung LCD monitor (943BT) for my desktop computer.

These monitor is not 4:3. It is 5:4

[DrThinkpad]

My T40 has Lenovo branding under the base...

[Springdale]

I also wanted to put my two cents in, but I also feel that the T60 and T61 series were designed by Lenovo and IBM. Have you ever noticed that early T60 models had IBM all over it, even a copyright by IBM on the bottom??
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-T60-Bo ... 563df20510

The newers ones like my T60p 14" with V5250 graphics has the IBM logos, but with Lenovo written on the LCD status light area and on the bottom with Lenovo COAs and copyrights. I also question if the early BIOS splash screens of the T60s had IBM instead of Lenovo.

Seems to me that the T4x series were built in Lenovo facilities, but for IBM and the T4x had all IBM on it, except for the latter ones durring the buyout process.

All in all, you can get away with having a pure T61/p IBM branded thinkpad, but under the hood it's lenovo parts. So The T61s are technically the last of the IBM thinkpad fleet.

[topmahof]

i have these:

x40-2372 cm-2 lenovo singapore coa, sticker says manufactured for lenovo, made in china
x40-2371 cm-2 lenovo singapore coa, sticker says manufactured for lenovo, made in china
x32-2673 bu6 lenovo singapore coa, sticker says manufactured for lenovo, made in china, the sticker on this one has a part number, fru-62p7031, copyright 1981-2003 ibm corp. and right behind it copyright 2005 lenovo.
x40-2371 cm-2 lenovo singapore coa, sticker says manufactured for lenovo, made in china
another x32 type 2672 cto no coa, sticker says manufactured for lenovo, made in china
x41-non tablet- 2525-cm-2 ibm corp. coa, sticker says manufactured for lenovo, made in china
x41-non tablet ibm sticker says 2371-5zu but a us sticker says 2525-5zu which is confirmed by pc wizard lenovo singapore coa, sticker says assembled in the u.s. of us and non-us components for lenovo.
x41-non tablet ibm sticker says-2371-5zu-but a us sticker says 2525 5zu which is confirmed by pc wizard lenovo singapore coa, sticker says assembled in the us of us and non-us components for lenovo. yeh, i have 2 of these.
these were all purchased used so the memory door with the coa could be from different machines.

oh yeh, all my splash screens say ibm

[dceggert]

As a quick data point....

My Z61t is a 'CTO' model indicating it was customer specified when ordered from the Lenovo website. It was the only 'new' Thinkpad I have ever purchased and it was manufactured and sold by Lenovo. It has an "IBM Thinkpad" logo on the lid and on the palm rest inside.

I recently picked up a slightly newer R400 off eBay and it too is a 'CTO' meaning it was purchased off the Lenovo website. It was also manufactured by Lenovo and it has "Thinkpad" on it and block letters "Lenovo" on the bezel.

The attempt to distinguish 'when' the model was designed entirely by Lenovo is difficult but I tend to agree with those that already stated that it is likely the new R, T, L, LS, X type series. IBM likely had a 3 year product cycle in the design phase which would have put the end of their designs about 2008...right where that new model numbering scheme begins. As such, my GUESS would be that the R61, T61, Z61, and X61 were the last of the IBM designs, however, they were already being manufactured by Lenovo for quite some time, even before the official split.

Dan

[dr_st]

As such, my GUESS would be that the R61, T61, Z61, and X61 were the last of the IBM designs, however, they were already being manufactured by Lenovo for quite some time, even before the official split.

Judging by design consistency, and by the time line, I'd say that these would be the T60/R60/Z61/X61. Z61 is actually a contemporary of T60/R60. T61/R61 are later models. X61 is also a later model, but for whatever reason, Lenovo changed the design significantly between 60 and 61 series for T/R, but kept it unchanged for the X (X61 is identical to X60 design-wise).

[nullface]

This is interesting.

My sister has a X61s, it has the IBM logo too.

I miss the IBM designed TP's, my X200 is not as well build as my sisters X61s (even though Lenovo most likely had something to do with the design and manufacturing) and my friends old X20.

[ThinkRob]

This is interesting.

My sister has a X61s, it has the IBM logo too.

I miss the IBM designed TP's, my X200 is not as well build as my sisters X61s (even though Lenovo most likely had something to do with the design and manufacturing) and my friends old X20.

A couple things:

First, the logos don't really mean much of anything with regards to who designed or manufactured the machine.

Second, I actually think that the X200 is *better* than the X6x with regards to build quality. The X200s, no, but the X200 yes. It's got the same magnesium alloy top cover design, a solid chassis, and doesn't seem to be prone to the same stress fractures that plague the X6x design. Add that to the (vastly) improved cooling system and I think that Lenovo actually outdid IBM on the design of the notebook. In fact, with the exception of one of the keyboard FRUs, I'd go as far as to say that it's one my all-time favorite ThinkPads. I haven't owned an X20, so I have no idea as to whether they were built or designed better/worse than modern X-series.

[craigmontHunter]

I would just like to say that I have a magazine (not sure of the yeAr, I will check) selling T42s as lenovo. I know that lenovo kept the design team together, maybe they wanted to ease the transition, slowly adopting new things (widescreen on the z-series), while building trust with the corperations.

All in all, I do not think that there is a clear cut time when it changed to Lenovo from IBM.

[ThinkPad560X]

Heres a strange thing I found, Although lenovo bought the ThinkPads in 2005, IBM was in developement of the T,R,Z,X60 series in 2005 and brought them out in 2006. I have a Z60m X60/X60 Tablet and a R60 Plus T60 with all IBM Branding on them, Not just the palmrest/lid corner IBM ThinkPad logo, but no lenovo on the bottom LCD nor the bottom info plate.

The only lenovo they all have on them is on the Windows XP Product key, lenovo singapore. Later on 2007 I tested out a T61, no IBM ThinkPad corner logo, but the start of lenovo's corner "ThinkPad" logo and even the lenovo logo on the bottom LCD corner. The IBM info plate on the bottom of the laptop was replaced with the large lenovo.
http://patcomps.weebly.com/

When fixing an R60 I got in, It was a late 2006 model and had the lenovo logo on its bottom LCD corner and on its bottom info plate. If you want to say, the last IBM ThinkPads was the early 60 seires ThinkPad models, Or you could say IBM finishing out their last developed ThinkPad. I also got some of this information from talking to a IBM tech support guy on chat.

[dr_st]

Branding on the palmrest or on the clearplate does not make a laptop either "IBM" or "Lenovo". These are just stickers for crying out loud, completely interchangeable. I've seen some T61 units with IBM logo, and some members on these forums have actually seen T42 and T43 units with the "Thinkpad" logo. Yes, indeed!

The story goes that when Lenovo acquired the Thinkpad brand, it received the rights to use the IBM brand name on its laptops for up to 5 years, in order to get the customers accustomed to the transition gradually. Lenovo didn't actually keep the IBM brand name for all the 5 years, in fact it disappeared immediately from everything but the palmrest/lid logos (and maybe the bottom case stickers as the images show), and these were gradually phased out in 2-3 years.

You can say whatever you want, but the truth is that all the 60 series laptops were already in development under IBM, but were only released under the Lenovo brand. In any case, I must say that I find your obsession with IBM Thinkpads versus Lenovo Thinkpads a bit strange.

[ThinkRob]

In a way the *60-series generation was both IBM and Lenovo, as they were developed while Lenovo was already working with IBM.

The logos... well... see above: those are pretty much meaningless. Lenovo got the rights to use the IBM logo, and use it they did. They used it for various periods on various products depending on whom the system was for. Companies that had existing large accounts with IBM got IBM-branded products through 2008 at least (and possibly later.) Consumers? They got Lenovo branding much earlier. Except sometimes that wasn't the case at all and each group got the opposite of what I described. Basically, in a lot of cases there's no externally-obvious explanation for which brand was used.

Make no mistake about it though: every ThinkPad from 2005 onwards is a Lenovo ThinkPad no matter what logo is on it. In fact, if you really want to get picky, there aren't any "true" IBM ThinkPads after about 2002, since IBM had pretty much outsourced and/or sold off all of its production by then.

Personally, I like the logos to be consistent but I don't really care much which brand adorns my hardware.

[ajkula66]

The bottom line is, both IBM and Lenovo-era ThinkPads have bright moments as well as the ones that most of us would rather forget...

I remember when the first titanium Z series hit the market, I was absolutely astonished with their looks and wanted one right then and there, preferably with the highest resolution imaginable, the fact that they were widescreen wasn't an issue at all at the time. Then I learned that the IPS option hasn't made its way into the 16:10 format, and that was the end of that saga...

All of that being said, all these years later, it's still one of my favourite ThinkPad designs...clean, simple yet effective.

And good luck figuring out whose baby these machines were...once again, started (and branded) by IBM and finished by Lenovo...

I believe that the last model that was U.S. built in any significant quantities was T30, but I may be well off. Even 600X series was largely made in Mexico. The final generation of A31/p units was already built in China...

The plant in Greenock, Scotland was rolling out T23s, A30/p and some early T4x models. That much I got from my UK counterparts.

But the bottom line is that it doesn't matter...and I'd never make a decision whether to buy something solely on basis of where it was built...

My $0.02 only...

[ThinkRob]

But the bottom line is that it doesn't matter...and I'd never make a decision whether to buy something solely on basis of where it was built...

Spot on. The only time I've ever done that has been when I *know* that a given production run has some specific flaw that only occurred in plants in one country. That hasn't happened with ThinkPads AFAIK, but it has happened with other products. Still, that's exceptionally rare, and for the most part I look at the manufacturing origin merely as a point of interest rather than a purchasing factor.

[pianowizard]

The location of the factory makes no difference as far as laptop quality is concerned. The vast majority of today's laptops are made by Foxconn's, Compal's and Quanta's factories in China and Taiwan. What matters is the design, and it is Lenovo, Dell, HP, Apple etc. who come up with the designs, not the Chinese and Taiwanese factories.

[ThinkPad560X]

Hey, does the System information "Under Windows XP" tell you the system board manufacturer?
Out of the T60, R60, X60 and my owned Z60m, All the T,R,X60 say System Manufacturer Lenovo, while my Z60m says System Manufacturer IBM.

[ajkula66]

No boards of that era were manufactured by IBM...and planars for Z series in particular were produced by more than one factory...

On a whole another level, just found this old post of mine...

http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 45&start=0

[ThinkRob]

The location of the factory makes no difference as far as laptop quality is concerned.

I concur.

The vast majority of today's laptops are made by Foxconn's, Compal's and Quanta's factories in China and Taiwan. What matters is the design, and it is Lenovo, Dell, HP, Apple etc. who come up with the designs, not the Chinese and Taiwanese factories.

For the most part that is correct, as those companies (mostly) do their own design. I know that Lenovo has sold some ODM re-labels before though, and a number of other "notebook makers" (such as Acer, Toshiba, etc.) also sell numerous systems that are merely slightly-rebranded ODM designs.

That's actually one of the reasons that I like ThinkPads: the chassis designs are done by Lenovo (although some of the board layouts are done by the ODMs which make the ThinkPads.)

[ThinkPad560X]

What I was talking about is the System information found under the system tools tab on my Z60m.

In the Window it says the OS name, for me Windows XP. version and OS Manufacturer - Microsoft, Below that it says System Manufacturer - IBM

Under my lenovo ThinkPads, "T/R/X60 it has System Manufacturer - Lenovo.

[pianowizard]

For the most part that is correct, as those companies (mostly) do their own design. I know that Lenovo has sold some ODM re-labels before though, and a number of other "notebook makers" (such as Acer, Toshiba, etc.) also sell numerous systems that are merely slightly-rebranded ODM designs.

Yes, I was aware of that. Most of these are low-end laptops, for which Acer, Toshiba, HP etc. need to minimize production costs. Hiring people to design these laptops would have cost too much.