Which 14.1" SXGA+ LCD panel is better?

[Eudoxus]

Recently I bought T61 with 14.1" SXGA+ LCD panel and after two weaks of playing aroung wiht my machine I tend to think that this panel annoys me. The vertical viewing angles are almost non-existend and photos look plain horrible. I tried to adjust colour settings but nothing helps. In fact, I think I am not that picky when it comes to LCD but after using really modest R61 with WSXGA I find it hard to accept the quality new screen. I didn't thought that sach a average screen can spoil me (I mean, you must agree that this is neither FlexView nor Apple). My panel is manufactured by Samsung (LTN141P4-L02 ) (FRU 42X4687). I have red different apinions about this panel. Some say that this is the best 14.1" SXGA+ panel available on T60 and T61, some disagree and claim that this is the worst from all. Other options are

Hydis (FRU 42T0433)
Samsung (FRU 42X4582) (I do not know whether this really differs from the one I have but it has different part number)

TMD 13N7063


If some of you have used those panels I would appreciate if you could share your views about them. How their compare in regard of contrast, viewing angles etc.

According to ThinkWiki some Samsung and Hydis 14.1" SXGA+ panels for T60 (there is nothing said about T61 but I assume that the same goes for T61 with SXGA+) have 300:1 contrast while mine has 200:1. Is that true and how much difference does it make? And finally, how do you think, is it worth the efforts to try to replace the panel that I happen to have with one manufactured by different supplier?



p.s. I have read people in the forums having regrets about buying T61 with 14.1" widescreen. I on the other hand tend to feel sorry for chosing the one with standard LCD. Nothing worng with the standard screen by itself and I feel perfectly comfortable in both formats. The problem her is quality as I think that widescreen panels are much better in the terms of viewing angles and colour rendering.

[Zender]

I have T60 with 14" SXGA+ from TMD, the screen manufactured late in 2006. I'd come to this notebook from 15" SXGA+ (matte) Prestigio cheap-plastic laptop, which I thought wasn't very good, but the Lenovo was even a little worse - I had the option to buy 15" FlexView back then, but decided I wanted something smaller with better battery life, not actually expecting I could get worse display than the Prestigio had.

But I did. It seems that the battery life difference isn't very big and the lack of contrast, hard times positioning the laptop so that I can show something to someone, the need to alter the viewing angle based on what I'm currently working with, these all things make me think my decision was wrong.

Well... I've mostly grown used to it. The colour purity ("sameness" of one colour over the whole screen) when looking from ~40cm is acceptable, when we talk about bright colours, under one specific angle, but the backlight bleed you describe, which makes black/darks lighter at the bottom, is also present and clearly visible. There's no angle at which the screen would appear even remotely black over the whole area.

I also had a different screen for a while in the T60, during the first month I had the laptop, which developed clear blue vertical line. Replaced in warranty. I thought it was a little better than what I have now - but definitely do not think it would be worth the hassle with ordering, having to pay for it, and replacing.

Actually it seems there has never been any good 14" SXGA+ panel, ever.

I like this laptop a lot, for all things except the screen. Actually thinking that my next notebook will have to be tablet, not for the tablet functions, but for the IPS screen, as that's their last outpost.

[Marin85]

Guys, look at that from the positive side: when flying the guy next to you has hard time watching what you are doing on your ThinkPad

[yak]

Guys, look at that from the positive side: when flying the guy next to you has hard time watching what you are doing on your ThinkPad

Not entirely true because the horizontal viewing angles aren't that bad.

But back to the topic. My T60 has the exact same Samsung 14.1" SXGA+ screen, the LTN141P4-L02. I have replaced the original Samsung XGA screen that was in my machine with this one. I think it is much better than the XGA one. One could easily spot red halos around ClearType fonts on it, it was a bit darker than the new one and had worse horizontal viewing angles, vertical were same.

I was comparing my SXGA+ lately with a WXGA screen in a HP 6720s. Both laptops were running on batterys with both displays set to full brightness. The T60 was a bit darker, HP was roughly as bright as a T60 on AC power, maybe a small bit brighter. I was a bit suprised by this because normally the brightness of my T60 doesn't bother me at all. As long as I'm not outside on a sunny day, it's perfectly acceptable to me.

I have to admit, the vertical viewing angles are bad. If you're doing some photo editing, better look for a different display as it is practically impossible to find a vertical position that would display all colors same on the whole surface. But again, I don't notice this normally during browsing, text editing or programming, which are the things that I do on this machine. Right, I have to adjust the screen position if I want to show something to someone that is, for example, standing next to me, but I learned to live with that.

Light leakage is also there, at the bottom of the screen. It is visible almost only when the screen is black and it looks better in reality than on the photos. Still, you can clearly see (when the screen is black) that the bottom edge is brighter than the top. When I'm in Windows, I never notice this.

The display is also poor when it comes to watching movies. You have to set the top of the display a bit more towards you than the bottom to make the dark scenes look acceptable.

Overall, this display has its flaws, the brightness and the vertical viewing angles being the most evident, but I still think it's useable, at least for the things I do on this notebook. Maybe this is because I haven't worked much with other screens nor do I have much contact with them on a daily basis. The reason may also be the fact, that I like the form factor of my T60 and the SXGA+ resolution so much, that I can live with these flaws.

That's why I plan to stay with this T60 as long as possible and use it as my main computer. Luckily, there are so much other things to love in this laptop.

EDIT: Added the paragraph about light leakage.

[Eudoxus]

Thank you for input, guys!
Well, in fact the screen is more or less acceptable as long as I work with word documents and similar stuff (fortunately, that is main purpose of this machine. But as soon as I surf the net or look to some private photos I get frustrated by the poor quality of images I have on my screen. As I said, the standard aspect ratio is OK for me (though In fact I fail to see the advantages of the standard screens over widescreens); what I really care about is the fact that If you buy a standard model you are stuck with legacy LCD that are far behind the standards accepted today. And this is supposed to be a premium stuff.
Sorry for ranting, but the part of the problem is that I recently sold my R61 with 15.4" WSXGA to buy this T61 machine and I thought that it is upgrade. Now I am not that sure about this. Of course, there are many excellent things that this T61 has. The keyboard is far better that that on R61, for example. But that screens things adds a sour note to overall package, that makes me not that satisfied with the upgrade.
And now I think what to do about all this LCD crap. To try to find some better panel (there are at least two options) or just to get used to the one I happen to have.

[yak]

I know why I prefer a standard aspect ratio over widescreen. Simply put, I work mostly with vertical oriented data, like program source codes or web sites. I can have the same height on a wide screen but then I would have a bigger notebook and I want to remain as mobile as I can. That would be to bulky for me. 14.1" 4:3 seems perfect for my needs.

I can understand if this reasoning doesn't work for you. Your options are then:

1. Try to replace the screen with a different brand. I've found an old thread with pictures comparing all three brands (also with a 15" Flexview). It's in the T4x forum but the screens in T6x are the same for the most part. This may help you decide.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15777

Seaching the forum or googling may give you some more comparisons.

2. Sell your standard screen T61 and replace it with a wide screen one.

3. Get used to it.

In the end, it will be only your decision.

[TTY]

I just want to comment yak's statement on 14.1" Samsung XGA panels in T6x series ThinkPads. At least with Samsung XGA panels in T61, red halos around Clear Type fonts seem to be a thing of the past. With the current video driver, i can't see any red halos. I suppose the halos were caused by an immature video driver.

[Eudoxus]

Thank you, yak, for the thread with pictures. The only thing I can say after seeing the pictures is that there is no big difference between hydis and samsung 14.1" sxga+. Both look equally bad (especially compared to flexview, which unfortunately is not option anymore on ThinkPads) and consequently I cannot see the point in replacing the screens. Well, maybe somebody can refer to some differences that cannot be told by the pictures?
So the only options seems to be either to change the reality (i.e., to get a widescreen) or to change the attitude (i.e., to get used to the crap I have to look about 10 hours each day).
So far I do not know which is the easier way. Selling and buying is real burden for me (moreover, it is rather complicate thing to do in the middle of nowhere where I happen to live). I just sold my not that old R61 and bought this one with intention not to repeat that kind of thing for some 3 years. On the other hand, the prospect of working each day with a panel that makes me cry each time I surf the news sounds bad too.
Well, I guess I have to think a bit and the let's see.

[Eudoxus]

By the way, if somebody is interested in some more or less objective comparisons between 14.1" SXGA+ and 14.1" WXGA+ then you should check out thoses reviews
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 190.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-IBM ... 972.0.html

I would like to see how samsung 14.1" SXGA+ compares to Hydis 14.1" SXGA+ in similar test, but have not be able to find anythig like that on the net.
As you may see if you chect those links that the difference in quality in both panels is quite dramatic. It goes without saying that 14.1" WXGA+ is not as good as IPS panels, but still it outperforms SXGA+ by considerably wide margin.

[agarza]

My T61 SXGA+ panel FRU is 42T0438 according to Parts Lookup unsure which manufactured made it.
Same result here, washed out colors, backlight bleeding etc. It's even 'worse' than the SXGA+ panel my T42p had (14.1" too).
I guess we will have to pay the price. It would be kind of cool that there was a LED SXGA+ panel, but guess Standard screens are now a thing of the past.

[Eudoxus]

It's strange. Hardware maintenance manual gives those FRU numbers for T61 14.1" SXGA+ panels
Hydis 42T0433
Samsung 42X4582
Samsung 42X4687
TMD 13N7063
And there is no 42T0438. Short googling did not help to clarify the point. Although I would guess that it is Hydis.
Anyway, it seems that all that is left to us is just ranting and whining behind those poor quality ancient screens smuggled in our otherwise sweet ThinkPads as there ar no better options for that part in the whole Universe. This is really sad, I must admit.

Agarza, have you had opportunity to compare your panel with one manufactured by samsung?