Monkey business (pic)

[RealBlackStuff]

Once upon a time a man appeared in a village and
announced to the villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each.
The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest
and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply
started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort. He next announced that
he would now buy monkeys at $20 each. This renewed the efforts of the
villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished
even further and people started going back to their farms. The offer increased
to $25 each and the supply of monkeys became so scarce it was an effort to even
find a monkey, let alone catch it! The man now announced that he would buy
monkeys at $50 each! However, since he had to go to the city on some business,
his assistant would buy on his behalf. In the absence of the man, the assistant
told the villagers: "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the
man has already collected. I will sell them to you at $35 and when the man
returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each." The
villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys for 700
billion dollars. They never saw the man or his assistant again, only lots and
lots of monkeys!

Now you have a better understanding of how the WALL STREET BAILOUT PLAN WILL WORK !!!!

[dorronto]

Hopefully the MARX BROS. can rest in piece after reading about your "Monkey Business"................

*funny read on a cold Sunday am.........

Ron

[killer]

I enjoyed that!

[Marin85]

I have to tell that story to one of our professors of economics...

[qviri]

I have to tell that story to one of our professors of economics...

Hopefully he'll have the knowledge necessary to actually understand the issue at hand.

[goofyGAguy]

Hopefully he'll have the knowledge necessary to actually understand the issue at hand.

I wish someone in Washington had the knowledge necessary to understand the issue at hand.

[RealBlackStuff]

Anybody have Obama's private email address? I'll send him a copy

[goofyGAguy]

Anybody have Obama's private email address? I'll send him a copy

See my previous post.

[bill bolton]

Once upon a time

Fairy tales have nothing at all to do with realpolitik, or the operation of markets

[JHEM]

[mattbiernat]

lol this is an enjoyable thread.

[qviri]

I wish someone in Washington had the knowledge necessary to understand the issue at hand.

Yes! If only you could find some economists that know what's going on and why. Unfortunately, if the last eight years are anything to go by, we'll have to make do with lobbyists, crooks, and free market radicalists.

[beGi]

Mod Edit - Deleted obscene image. Please do not post that (or anything close to it) again. - Harryc

EDIT:

Sorry, in case you didn't know it was parody on one Nirvana album cover...

I apologize to everyone who found it inappropriate...

[GomJabbar]

Yes! If only you could find some economists that know what's going on and why. Unfortunately, if the last eight years are anything to go by, we'll have to make do with lobbyists, crooks, and free market radicalists.

I think you really mean "free market fundamentalists".


Here is an interesting article regarding Market Fundamentalism.

Free Market Fundamentalism: Friedman, Pinochet and the "Chilean Miracle"

Much has been written in the popular press and elsewhere about what has become known as "The Chilean Miracle." It is widely assumed by those who read about this "miracle" that what they're reading is based on fact.

The reality is that much of what they are reading, is, in fact, true. Unfortunately, however, it is also largely a half-truth, that does not reflect the actual experience of ordinary Chileans on the ground.

I uncovered this reality a number of years ago when investigating what has happened in Chile since the coup against Salvadore Allende and the rise of Augusto Pinochet. I was interested simply because I had heard so much radically conflicting testimony, truly passionate testimony, on both sides. Such passion, amidst such contradiction, stirred my curiosity. I felt like I had to know what really happened in order to form a valid opinion, and to know what it really meant.

What I discovered is that the reality of Chile today is two-fold. The experience of what happened in Chile is strongly influenced by who you are: the realites of the poor and working class are vastly different than those of the upper classes and the upper middle class. Who benefitted and why from the Pinochet years has strongly influenced what has been written about that epochal time in Chilean, and Latin American, history.

Why this is relevant today is that the Pinochet regime in Chile was a testing ground for much of the economic doctrine that is put in place today around the world...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chile

The junta embarked on a radical program of liberalization and privatization, slashing tariffs as well as government welfare programs and deficits. The new economic program was designed by a group of technocrats known as the Chicago boys because many of them had been trained or influenced by University of Chicago professors.

The economy grew rapidly from 1976 to 1981, fueled by the influx of private foreign loans until the debt crisis of the early 1980s. Despite high growth in the late 1970s, income distribution became more regressive. While the upper 5% of the population received 25% of the total national income in 1972, it received 50% in 1975. Wage and salary earners got 64% of the national income in 1972 but only 38% at the beginning of 1977. Malnutrition affected half of the nation's children, and 60% of the population could not afford the minimum protein and food energy per day. Infant mortality increased sharply. Beggars flooded the streets.

The junta relied on the army, the police, the oligarchy, huge foreign corporations, and foreign loans to maintain itself. As a whole, the armed services received large salary increases and new equipment. The oligarchy recovered most of its lost industrial and agricultural holdings, for the junta sold to private buyers most of the industries expropriated by Allende's Popular Unity government. This period saw the expansion of monopolies and widespread speculation.

[qviri]

I think you really mean "free market fundamentalists".

Correct. That's the phrase I had in mind, thanks.

[Marin85]

Yes! If only you could find some economists that know what's going on and why. Unfortunately, if the last eight years are anything to go by, we'll have to make do with lobbyists, crooks, and free market radicalists.

I once heard from a deep throat that the economical crises we are faced with was practically caused by people operating on markets and making decisions who don´t have even a marginal notion of what they were doing. They were just applying some rules learnt by heart and with no whatsoever understanding underlying it (unlike finance mathematicians who seem to be even more needed in times like this one). Nobody asks professors of economics, their reasoning seems to be too complicated for most politicians...

[goofyGAguy]

Their reasoning always seems to involve more and more government and less individual freedom. No thanks.

[qviri]

Their reasoning always seems to involve more and more government and less individual freedom. No thanks.

Not quite, it's more government and less corporate freedom. Not quite the same thing, unfortunately.

[Marin85]

Even if so, how can one judge that if one doesn´t have the knowledge Many policies involving government, "individual" or corporate freedom and setting restrictions to one or another lead to positive results after some time. Yes, economical measures require time and restrictions to someone´s (economical) behavior. Certainly, this someone won´t like it as of now, there are then probably many someones like this one and they all won´t like it as of now, but due to these restrictions applying to every someone like this, after some time there will be a cumulative effect that every one will benefit from. These restrictions, somewhat inconvenient, are nothing else but regulated economical behavior. Just for that reason they are really working. (Note: removing restrictions on someone´s economical behavior implicitly means setting restriction to someone else´s economical behavior ). Many people seem to be unable to understand that, that´s why many effective economical measures cannot be applied, namely for political reasons...

Just my 2 cents

Marin

[RealBlackStuff]

I think he says it perfectly in his Signature:

...knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

[ajkula66]

qviri wrote:

Unfortunately, if the last eight years are anything to go by, we'll have to make do with lobbyists, crooks, and free market radicalists.

I wasn't (and still am not) a fan of G.W. Bush, but fact of the matter is that it's a lot more of eight years of lobbyists and crooks, let along free market fundamentalists that we're dealing with here...and the 700B bailout is so far away from even the most remote idea of free market...shame on everyone who allowed that grand theft to happen by voting for it is all I can say...

It was during Clinton's presidency that American jobs started being shipped overseas, never to return...after connecting a few dots is when you start questioning yourself (at least I do, or used to) whether the fall of the Berlin Wall had anything to do with "liberating" the people of Eastern Europe, or it had more to do with locating sources of well-qualified inexpensive labour...

Now, the very same song that RBS has quoted from my signature also states:

...the future of all mankind I see is in the hands of fools...

And these words ring as true as they did four decades ago when the song was written, if not more so...

[spuddog]

Well, Finally I see Mr Clinton's name appear. Everyone loves to blame the republicans for the mess we are in, but Clinton was the president that signed NAFTA. Ever since, jobs have been leaving the US. As higher paying jobs leave people have less money to spend. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that eventually the whole economy suffers.

I hope that President Obama can come through with his promise of jobs, for that is where the recovery will start. But I don't see how that is likely.

I hope there is some money in the recovery bill for the average person instead of the large corporations.

Scott

[Beaver]

What's that all about ? We do not have any crisis here - shops full of people, car companies making new cars. I like the crisis, I got salary increased and the fuel is way cheaper

[Marin85]

What's that all about ? We do not have any crisis here - shops full of people, car companies making new cars. I like the crisis, I got salary increased and the fuel is way cheaper

I believe that´s a common phenomenon for most "transition" lands, they really don´t seem to experience the crisis that close if at all...

[beGi]

I believe that´s a common phenomenon for most "transition" lands, they really don´t seem to experience the crisis that close if at all...

I hope this is sarcasm...

If not, 90% of transition country would disagree with that (maybe even more, but I heard some nice words about Ireland in the past few years, but I can not confirm since i never been there)...

[Beaver]

Well it's because we do not rely only on US/international companies and banks, most bank here is covered by enough reserves to make them stable. Of course there were some influences of the global economic but nothing so dramatic. And for the Marin's post - he is just crying as we are now leading EU and he can't do anything about it Anyway it's the common mistake of many people to consider CZ to be still "transition" - in fact the Germany itself seeems to be quite scared and still do not agree to allow foreign workers from EU to get a job freely without any permission (as this is now almost common in EU at all). And some joke (more or less) - Marin from Germany is probably placing his critic posts from his laptop sold by US company, made in China with Taiwan parts on the Croatia beach drinking some Italian wine which he will spill on his French swimming suite. That was something regarding the "global things"...

[RealBlackStuff]

I heard some nice words about Ireland in the past few years, but I can not confirm since i never been there)...

Ireland was THE up-and-coming booming economy in the nineties, when the Celtic Tiger roared.
The bubble started to burst after 9/11, and currently Ireland is throwing out all the Polish/Chech/Slavic etc. immigrants, that don't have a steady job and/or have not paid taxes properly for a certain period.
Don't know the exact details, but the Tiger is now only a scrawny kitty! Ireland is nearly on its [censored] at the moment!

[beGi]

Marin from Germany is probably placing his critic posts from his laptop sold by US company, made in China with Taiwan parts on the Croatia beach drinking some Italian wine which he will spill on his French swimming suite.

Lol indeed... Globalization have some advantages, but IMO it suck...

P.S. Croatian wine is as good as Italian or French

[killer]

I'll try to avoid politics but I believe the current economic crisis is not due to world trade but due to people who have run gigantic scams. Someone with a name that sounds like Made Off is one possible example (I won't actually name names for legal reasons).
I think that what has happened is similar to the South Sea Bubble in the 18th century.
Reference to that is plentiful, but here is an example: http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/En ... Bubble.htm

Edit: To add the following:-
@RealBlackStuff. Well done for spelling ar$e correctly. So much better than the word for a donkey.
@BeGi. Which Croatian wine is as good as a Cru Classe Bordeaux or a Grand Cru Burgundy?

[Marin85]

And for the Marin's post - he is just crying as we are now leading EU and he can't do anything about it Anyway it's the common mistake of many people to consider CZ to be still "transition" - in fact the Germany itself seems to be quite scared and still do not agree to allow foreign workers from EU to get a job freely without any permission (as this is now almost common in EU at all).

Being myself not a German (but Germany wanted me so much that they would have kidnapped me ...) I most comfortably enjoy what is going on within the EU framework and between all the countries... Not that I like it but it´s a theater of its worst kind... By its nature the EU is doomed not to work out, as of now I think it is just a source - or even worse - a result - of advanced hypocrisy (I believe this state should be classified pathologically...). Unfortunately, it´s really not that simple as "hypocrisy" would suggest, because there are still attempts to make it work and there is a good reason for this... I hope that the common European sense will prevail but I doubt that.

As for the "transition" part, forgive me, I must have forgotten that according to many historians of the current times the transition period in most of these countries has been over for a few years now...

And some joke (more or less) - Marin from Germany is probably placing his critic posts from his laptop sold by US company, made in China with Taiwan parts on the Croatia beach drinking some Italian wine which he will spill on his French swimming suite. That was something regarding the "global things"...

I like that You should add "Marin from whatever currently residing in Germany" for the globalization sake

I hope this is sarcasm...

If not, 90% of transition country would disagree with that (maybe even more, but I heard some nice words about Ireland in the past few years, but I can not confirm since i never been there)...

Well, I have to disappoint you, it´s not sarcasm... But you are probably right. In fact, Slovenia and Croatia are big exceptions to what I´m going to say... I had to be more precise and say that by transition countries I have very wide notion including all European countries having been part of the Eastern Bloc. Most of them (but not all) don´t really feel the economy crises because they simply don´t have an economy, or to put it more precisely, most of their so called economy is grey to black. In fact, this kinds of economy even bloom during such crises... and all they are very grateful to the EU to receive its financial support...

Marin