Monkey business (pic)

[Marin85]

@BeGi. Which Croatian wine is as good as a Cru Classe Bordeaux or a Grand Cru Burgundy?

I know this is a question to beGi but I´d like to interfere here a bit I would answer "probably every good Croatian wine". And the same goes for Romanian, Bulgarian and Hungarian wines (all of them quite beloved in England AFAIK, but you won´t get them in the "normal stores"). No offence to my French and Italian friends, but their wines are by far over-estimated thanks to the fact that these nations have always had all opportunities to market their wine sorts and have never suffered from certain historical details which have been preventing the popularity of other wine countries for long time...

@killer: That Grand Cru Burgundy sounds somehow very German, doesn´t it?

[killer]

cru
/kroo/

• noun (pl. crus pronunc. same) (in France) a vineyard or group of vineyards, especially one of recognized superior quality.

— ORIGIN French, ‘growth’.

It also sounds like a railway-junction town in north west England (Crewe) but it is definitely French.

[beGi]

In fact, Slovenia and Croatia are big exceptions to what I´m going to say... In fact, this kinds of economy even bloom during such crises......and all they are very grateful to the EU to receive its financial support...

Well, Slovenia is part of EU and they are way ahead of us (comparing economy and laws)... Why? We had brutal war, completely destroyed industry and idiots who ruled the country, to be short; we're rebuilding our economy from the start... Just to add, Slovenian government is also made of idiots

Most of them (but not all) don´t really feel the economy crises because they simply don´t have an economy, or to put it more precisely, most of their so called economy is grey to black. In fact, this kinds of economy even bloom during such crises...

We feel crisis, but not as strong as western part... Why? Because we are "going out" of crisis back from 1991... Still no success... Yes, gray economy blooms, but who takes the real money is questionable...

and all they are very grateful to the EU to receive its financial support...

Efficiency of pre-EU fonds is very low (again numerous reasons), and the only thing I'm grateful to the EU is that it makes us (us=Croatian incompetent government) to bring better laws...

[ajkula66]

Now, this thread is getting really interesting...let's just keep the flames out so it doesn't get locked or deleted...

@Beaver:

I'm tempted to say that Czech Republic is more of an exception, than a rule when it comes to countries in transition. Honestly, I'm glad things are good there, and I wish they were as good elsewhere...a long history of engineering expertise as well as military and automotive industry helped a great deal, I'm certain.

However, I'd hate for you (or any Czech for that fact) to wake up one morning and realize that everything that is of value in your country is owned by someone else, and not Czech people...

@Marin85:

The only difference amongst the "transition" countries is the level to which the "gray" economy has been taken over and made "respectable" and "acceptable" by multinational companies, or individuals representing them anonymously...all in all, apart from Czech Republic and Slovenia, things look pretty darn bad in that part of the world...and, to make myself perfectly clear, I never saw Ireland as a "country in transition"...and yes, I agree with you that EU is doomed and will eventually fail/dissolve...

@killer:

The best Croatian wines are not even bottled, let alone exported...so you'll just have to hop to one of Dalmatian islands and give them a shot...be forewarned that they take getting used to...and no, I'm not Croatian... ...quite the opposite, if that's possible...

And my dear friend beGi will attest to that...

The bottom line is, most of former Eastern Europe was sold for pennies on the million, and the people in these countries are going to be stuck with the rest of the bill for decades to come...Putin (whom I have no love for) has managed to reverse this trend in Russia, and that's the main reason he's not being well-liked by American media, or politicians on either side of the aisle here...

[Beaver]

However, I'd hate for you (or any Czech for that fact) to wake up one morning and realize that everything that is of value in your country is owned by someone else, and not Czech people...

We used to be more proud nation but probably when allies left us behind before 2nd world war to be overtook by Hitler and then did the same in 1968 and let the Russia to snatch us again to next 20 years of darkness, we suffered a great damage and almost everything was "retarded" and slowed down. But in this time of globalization there is no way to avoid owning of something by someone and this is not related only to CZ. And from my point of view there is also no good reason to worry about it until they took our beer production plants - then we will be doomed (but you need to taste Czech beer to understand, really, no joke). Even after that we will produce a drink called SLIVOVICE (made from plums). There is also a joke related to that, I will try to translate it to the form which can be understand by everzone:

Diary of American guy in Czech Republic:

1. Monday
I am in CZ on my bussines trip. They invited me to some drink they call slivovice.

2. Tuesday
Oh my god, I almost died, it's like liquid flames. They invited my to a drink again, I hope that I am now prepared for it.

3. Wednsday
I regret that I didn't die on Monday.

Just to add, Slovenian government is also made of idiots

That's a generic rule - it also applies on most governments on the world, including Czech one. Unfortunately.

[Marin85]

cru
/kroo/

• noun (pl. crus pronunc. same) (in France) a vineyard or group of vineyards, especially one of recognized superior quality.

— ORIGIN French, ‘growth’.

I believe you missed the point here, I wasn´t referring neither to Grand nor to Cru. Burgundy has always been of the Germans or to be more precise, it is historically known for the strong presence of Germanic folks on that piece of earth

BTW, I don´t understand why you call that wine Grand Cru Burgundy, it should be actually called Grand Cru Bourgogne, right?...

Marin

[ajkula66]

@Beaver:

Don't let my location (which is accurate for the time being) fool you...into thinking I don't know what Czech beer is about...

In my days, I've owned several nice pieces that were stamped with "Zbrojovka Brno" on them...as well as '61 Škoda Felicia Convertible and '75 110R...

Almost relocated to Prague in 1992...that was my last visit to your country...not the first one, though...

And where I came from the plum brandy that you're referring to is called šljivovica...FWIW, even in the middle of nowhere where I reside now, one can buy a Croatian version of it for something like $23 for a 0.75 l bottle...Slavs are known for their ability to make a liquor out of next to anything...

[beGi]

@killer: you have PM

The best Croatian wines are not even bottled, let alone exported...so you'll just have to hop to one of Dalmatian islands and give them a shot...be forewarned that they take getting used to...

He, this is the short version of PM for killer...

and no, I'm not Croatian... ...quite the opposite, if that's possible...And my dear friend beGi will attest to that...

I see no point in explain this, because I'm sure that no one except George and me will understand (it's cultural thing)...

@Beaver:
As you already know Czech people are crazy about Croatia so I meet a lot of them, and I drank your beer (although I'm white wine guy)... We also have slivovice (aka šljivovica) but we call that strong alcoholic beverage RAKIJA in general (and we can make it from anything that ever grew) and George will attest that...

Regarding Putin, well that guy is really up to something just look gas crisis, Arctic aspiration, Georgia... George said that he succeeded to improve Russia, well maybe a little, but I don't think so. All he did is create a small group of ridiculously rich people which will ensure him 12 new presidential years...

That's a generic rule - it also applies on most governments on the world, including Czech one. Unfortunately.

Maybe, but we would probably enter EU much sooner if SLO government is not so...hostile toward us... I really don't expect nothing from entering EU except to travel and work elsewhere (while I still can) without 3 tons of paperwork...

[Marin85]

Now, this thread is getting really interesting...let's just keep the flames out so it doesn't get locked or deleted...

I second that!

@killer:

The best Croatian wines are not even bottled, let alone exported...so you'll just have to hop to one of Dalmatian islands and give them a shot...be forewarned that they take getting used to...and no, I'm not Croatian... ...quite the opposite, if that's possible...

...and that too!

...until they took our beer production plants - then we will be doomed (but you need to taste Czech beer to understand, really, no joke).

You won´t hear this from many people having been to/in Munich (or other part of Bavaria), but Czech beer is the best! (for me)

Even after that we will produce a drink called SLIVOVICE

I had the opportunity to have drunk only Bulgarian and Serbian slivovica (or slivova (rakia) ) as well as grozdova (rakia) or grozdovica (made of grape) as well as some more other, more exotic ones I have to try the Czech version, but beware, I´m coming with pretty high expectations

[Marin85]

Wow, two replies while I was writing mine I tend to believe that rakia or rakija (actually the second one sounds closer) is quite a common concept in that region

Maybe, but we would probably enter EU much sooner if SLO government is not so...hostile toward us...

I thought you´d like to enter EU politically, but it seems to me that it´s rather the physical aspect of entering (if words are not enough, you could certainly always punch the SLOs...)

[Marin85]

...

However, I'd hate for you (or any Czech for that fact) to wake up one morning and realize that everything that is of value in your country is owned by someone else, and not Czech people...

The only difference amongst the "transition" countries is the level to which the "gray" economy has been taken over and made "respectable" and "acceptable" by multinational companies, or individuals representing them anonymously...all in all, apart from Czech Republic and Slovenia, things look pretty darn bad in that part of the world...and, to make myself perfectly clear, I never saw Ireland as a "country in transition"...

The bottom line is, most of former Eastern Europe was sold for pennies on the million, and the people in these countries are going to be stuck with the rest of the bill for decades to come...Putin (whom I have no love for) has managed to reverse this trend in Russia, and that's the main reason he's not being well-liked by American media, or politicians on either side of the aisle here...

Every single word quoted for truth!...

[beGi]

I thought you´d like to enter EU politically, but it seems to me that it´s rather the physical aspect of entering

Yep, their government literally blackmails us to give them one whole gulf (which is currently divided by half according to international law), if not we won't see EU ... I wonder why don't they ask Italian guys to give them ANYTHING...

if words are not enough, you could certainly always punch the SLOs...

Violence is not the answer, and it creates just one thing -> more violence... In fact I really like SLO's people and lots of them are my dear (girl)friends...

[Marin85]

Violence is not the answer, and it creates just one thing -> more violence... In fact I really like SLO's people and lots of them are my dear (girl)friends...

Oh, I was only kidding, I like them too, but you seem to like them even more than I do as you have so many slo girlfriends

[killer]

This whole thing has now gone completely off topic.

RealBlackStuff originally posted about Monkeys ... a parody on the world economic crisis.

We are now on several different subjects:

1. I respect Croatia
2. I respect Slovenia
3. I respect the Czech Republic
4. Yes, there are other countries except France that make good wine (Portugal is the best but tell too many people!)
5. I like monkeys
6. I am a committed European
7. Can we please get back to the OP's point.

[RealBlackStuff]

I think it's quite kewl actually, the way this thread has developed.
It started with economic "help", and we are still talking about economic "help", albeit in different countries.

My personal attitude about the wine discussion:
Portuguese wine is way too rough to enjoy, claiming this to be (one of) the best in Europe, can only come from someone in a country where the favorite wine is Blue Nun, and steak has the consistency of shoe sole leather.
Most Burgundy wines are better than most Bordeaux wines. Thinking that a wine is good because it is expensive is the completely wrong attitude. Wines from South Africa and Australia have been beating the crap out of a lot of French wines for quite a while now. Even some US wines can now run circles around French wine!
The best wines are still those, that you get directly from the wine grower, irrespective of which country you are in.

About beer: apart from the Real Black Stuff, the best "other" beer IMHO is the original Budvar from the Czechs, not the cat's piss they sell in the US under the stolen name of Budweiser .

Please continue....

[killer]

LMAO. People used to want meat overcooked because they didn't have fridges. They couldn't afford them because we had to pay back war loans taken out from 1939 to 1945. At least we alone fought the Third Reich instead of making films about it.

[Marin85]

At least we alone fought the Third Reich instead of making films about it.

I sent you a PM.

LMAO. People used to want meat overcooked because they didn't have fridges. They couldn't afford them because we had to pay back war loans taken out from 1939 to 1945.

That´s indeed an interesting point. I´ll come back to it later when the discussion is so far...

[Beaver]

At least we alone fought the Third Reich instead of making films about it.

Definitely not alone, check for
No. 310 Squadron RAF (fighting)
No. 311 Squadron RAF (bombing)
No. 312 Squadron RAF (fighting)
No. 313 Squadron RAF (fighting)

@Marin85, RealBlackStuff, beGi, ajkula66
Nice to hear that you know (and possibly drink) our products

@crisis
One of quite interesting thing based on financial crisis is the fact, that money are gathered mostly from poor people, not from the rich ones As the people with low salary are not able to buy what they need, they are taking the loans. The loans will cost them more than direct buy. If they can't pay, they will loose more that they bought with loan. As the result the people with not enough money are converted to people with no money

[killer]

Beaver, Those squadrons were RAF. All help was greatly appreciated.

[RealBlackStuff]

This year we plan to spend our summer holidays in Croatia near Split.
My brother-in-law has just bought some property there, and has offered us the use of it!
We certainly will be extensively sampling the local plonk!
When I was still living in Switzerland, I was forever visiting the neighboring (and further) countries and have 'drunk' my way through most wines, beers and other alcoholica of the area.
Having had friends (and colleagues at work) from lots of other countries also helped to make my acquaintance with local specialties.
My daughters went to the International School in Basel, where we also met with lots of nationalities, and on the annual School's Bazaar day we could eat and drink specialties from all over the world (ca. 25 countries on average).

[beGi]

One of quite interesting thing based on financial crisis is the fact, that money are gathered mostly from poor people, not from the rich ones As the people with low salary are not able to buy what they need, they are taking the loans. The loans will cost them more than direct buy. If they can't pay, they will loose more that they bought with loan. As the result the people with not enough money are converted to people with no money

That is general idea for decades now, rich people get richer, and poor get poorer/dead...

Economy is really not my field of interest, but I recently watched movie called Zaitgeist (contains 3 parts), it is a bit overstretched in moments (part 1 is about religion; part 2 is about 9/11) but how do you comment on part 3 about US federal reserve:

Zeitgeist - Part3 Federal Reserve (Part 1 of 5)
Zeitgeist - Part3 Federal Reserve (Part 2 of 5)
Zeitgeist - Part3 Federal Reserve (Part 3 of 5)
Zeitgeist - Part3 Federal Reserve (Part 4 of 5)
Zeitgeist - Part3 Federal Reserve (Part 5 of 5)

(notice: i didn't watch the movie on youtube so i don't know if someone altered something)

[beGi]

This year we plan to spend our summer holidays in Croatia near Split.

Well that is really nice to hear, I hope it won't be disappointing... And you must go to one of the islands (there are about 1200+ of them so take your pick )

If you travel by near Pag (I just hope I'll be here during summer) you must come and visit so you can try some home made Mediterranean cuisine... Restaurants in HR are like anywhere (if you know where to go, you'll be very satisfied) but home made is home made ...

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions...

[Beaver]

My brother-in-law has just bought some property there, and has offered us the use of it!

This is quite surprise for me - if your brother-in-law is Croatia citizen then it's ok, otherwise (for what I know) is not allowed to own anything by non-Croatian citizens.

Anyway from my personal experience I can definitely recommend to try ice-cream as they are producing veeeeeeeeeery good one and I spent most money in Croatia (in location Baska Voda - Goodwater ) eating it. I was even on trip to Bosna and Hercegovina and tasted ice cream there and compared to Croatian one it was crap Also the sea in Croatia was clean and with quite good temperature, everyone very kind and (but this will not help you at all) most of people able to speak or at least understand Czech language That's because Croatia is very popular holiday destination for us - reasonable prices (well, it used to be, now it's bit more expensive, but still acceptable), not far away (aprox. 18 hours by car).

[Marin85]

Now, beGi, you really got me started... I can only recommend the movie Zeitgeist (ger. "spirit of time", "time spirit", I believe, also a philosophical term in English just like "Anschauungserkenntnis" ). It actually consists of two parts: Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist: Addendum. The first part of the first part is indeed about religion, about Christianity, and it has its good reasons as to why. All I can say about that movie is: WATCH IT if you haven´t. All you are going to see are true facts and only facts about Sep 11th, about American policy and politics, about Bush and many and much more, some parts of it are somewhat similar to Fahrenheit 911 (I haven´t watched the latter yet, have only seen some cuts of it, hence this is my impression on it, but I can´t really comment on it) there is really nothing conspirative in all that, though fans of conspiracy theories may like it more, it´s all facts, judge them by yourself. Maybe just a side note: if you don´t have some economics background, skip/overlook the parts about the interest rates for the FED. My point is only the statements made in the movie are generally true, but to not misunderstand that one really needs some knowledge on bank systems and banking and why things are the way they are. Unfortunately, it´s not that simple as shown in the movie and although it´s generally true, there are a lot more economy mechanisms behind it to judge these statements only by the impression they create. That´s all Enjoy the movie

Marin

PS: Here is a direct link to Zeitgeist - The movie. You can watch it directly from their website. They also provide a link to the torrent metafiles, so one can legally download the movie via a torrent client. Both parts of the movie are for free.

[RealBlackStuff]

This is quite surprise for me - if your brother-in-law is Croatia citizen then it's ok, otherwise (for what I know) is not allowed to own anything by non-Croatian citizens.

The regulations that you need to know about are in place for valid citizens of all countries that have a reciprocal agreement, meaning countries in which Croatian citizens can purchase property and vice versa. The countries that are covered by this are all EU countries except Italy, USA, the Russian Federation, and Hungary. For the citizens of Italy, Switzerland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, you can only purchase property in Croatia if you intend to settle in Croatia on a permanent basis.

[beGi]

The regulations that you need to know about are in place for valid citizens of all countries that have a reciprocal agreement, meaning countries in which Croatian citizens can purchase property and vice versa.

More less that is true, but (although I did not check for obvious reasons) I think foreigners can buy property in HR as long they have registered business here...

Don't quote me on that, I wrote it because it sounds very familiar ...

I really don't have ANYTHING against foreigners in HR (one of the reasons is 7 billion euros/year), but since purchasing power (?) of average Croat is waay bellow western standards, I would be really sad (to put it mildly) to see my people selling their land to foreign people, and to eventually become foreigners in their own country...

That may sound xenophobic (especially from US point of view), but that is not the case and is far from truth... We really value our tradition and it would be a real loss if capitalism destroys everything we stand for... I really do not want even imagine my country in next 100 years and see it as Monte Carlo, a rich people playground...

But if you come here and contribute (value our traditional values), everyone is invited...

And that is also valid for Croats

Moje 2 lipe

[RealBlackStuff]

Was wondering about the HR.
Seems to stem from Hrvatska, probably the old name for Croatia?

[beGi]

Was wondering about the HR.
Seems to stem from Hrvatska, probably the old name for Croatia?

Wait, did you just called me old?

No, it is not an "old" name (in fact it is but it is still in use), we (Croats) call our country Hrvatska; English speakers call it Croatia, Italians call it Croazia, Germans call it Kroatien, Czechs call it Chorvatsko...

HR is international symbol...