Dual boot two instances of XP using TrueImage restore?

[umern]

Hi,
Hope someone can help....
I have two near identical Thinkpad T42 laptops - one with 80gb and one with 40gb HD. I would like to keep just one (the 80gb model) but get it to dual boot between two different installations of XP.
I have resized the 80GB laptop hd to two 40GB partitions.
I then backed up the 40gb laptop using Acronis Trueimage and then restored this to the 2nd 40gb partition on the 80GB laptop.
I then modified the boot.ini as follows:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Work" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Home" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

However, I can boot into the Work partition but when I select the Home it just gives me a blank screen.
I initially restored the home partition as a Logical and then tried restoring it as a Primary - neither seems to work.
Any ideas what I am doing wrong - should I be able to achieve my goal of dual-booting the two XP installations?
Thanks in advance for any help!

[GomJabbar]

From what I have read, it can't be done unless you have two different XP Licenses (SP2 onward).

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 83#p119183

[Marin85]

I´m not sure if this is of help, but some time ago I had some bad experience with installing XP on a HD with more than 1 partition (and no OS installed), for reference see XP won´t install/write to MBR, which might be somehow related to your topic. My conclusion (may be wrong though...) was that XP just doesn´t like two or more partitions when it has to be installed on that HD. During my various attempts to accomplish this I often met the blank black screen you are referring to when trying to boot in the installation partition. If nothing simpler works, I would suggest you trying the following: remove any partitions, install XP, shrink its partition and create a second one and then restore your Acronis image to the second one (or if this doesn´t work, then vica versa, the point is to create the 2 partitions under installed XP).

BTW, you don´t mention in your post to have performed an installation of XP to the second partition (you only mention the Acronis image)

Hope this helps

Marin

[Marin85]

From what I have read, it can't be done unless you have two different XP Licenses (SP2 onward).

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 83#p119183

But in this case, it would complain about the XP license, not run into blank screen, right?

Marin

[RealBlackStuff]

You could also buy the correct Ultrabay 2nd HD adapter, put the 40GB HD in there, and stick it in the laptop instead of your CD/DVD drive.
At boot time, just press F12 and select from which HD you want to boot.

[GomJabbar]

That is true, yet I read that if one installation of XP can see another identical (license-wise) installation of XP, then one of the installations will be disabled and will no longer boot.

[Marin85]

That is true, yet I read that if one installation of XP can see another identical (license-wise) installation of XP, then one of the installations will be disabled and will no longer boot.

Ah, ok, I see your point. How about if the second installation of XP is not activated?

[RealBlackStuff]

The "license" is for all practical purposes, the "Product Key" so far as single owner versions are concerned. What that means, is, that I could, for example, go downtown and buy 2, 4, 6, or 600 copies of XP, Open them, take out the license with the "key" and then use JUST ONE CD OUT OF ALL THOSE BOXES to install on however many machines, and using a different "key" on each machine.
The CD really has NOTHING to do with the "license", there is no "uniqueness" to each individual CD.
Really, the only difference between different CD's is when they are for a different "build" of XP, and in fact, this has been true since Winblows95.
For example, an "upgrade" key cannot be used in a RETAIL or OEM "full version"
A RETAIL "full" key cannot be use in an "upgrade" version, OR an "OEM" version, and now that X tra P utrid also has the multi-licensed "Volume license" CD's called by many as a "corporate" version, the "corporate" keys cannot be used with other types of CD's and so on.
It is the license/ product key which you must have unique on your different machines.

Based on the above, I would say that 2 instances of XP, using a different CD-Key, should be possible.
They should be on different partitions (which the OP has).

[Marin85]

Based on the above, I would say that 2 instances of XP, using a different CD-Key, should be possible.

The only uncomfortable thing about this is that you have to buy two licenses to use XP on the same machine (for example, knowing that XP has security holes, you want to separate your work from your home use). I don´t think it´s fair... Anyway, I wonder if you install XP, create a second partition and install XP on that too, is it then possible to activate them with the same key since it´s the same machine, i.e. same user, same MAC, same hardware I don´t know if XP checks only if the given key is already in use or additionally compares other specs (that means what kind of information XP sends to M$ servers when requesting an activation and what part of that is really stored on these servers...), but fact is if you change too much of your hardware, XP starts thinking that it is a different machine and requires (re)activation. Hence hardware must count somehow in the whole picture.

Also, maybe an idea to the OP: if you manage to install XP in this dual-boot configuration, you may not have to buy an additional license if you call M$ to (re)activate your second installation of XP, but you will have to explain them your story.

Marin

[umern]

Yes they are both different licence keys.
The 80GB is a work laptop and the 40gb is a home laptop - both with genuine licences.
I have been given a Dell (yuck) laptop at work and told to keep the T42 at home for contingency / working from home purposes. Now that wont be very often so I figured I would sell my home laptop and just use the one single work laptop at home for dual purposes.

The work installation of XP is a work specific build with lots of work related software and so I wanted to retain that unchanged. I didnt particulalry want to reinstall my home build so I just backed that up and tried to restore it onto the 2nd newly created partition on the the work laptop.

I just assumed I had picked the wrong option in TrueImage when doing the restore - but the only option remaining is Active but it says only one partition can be active at one point. Is there any third party bootmanager (freebie?) that will deal with two active partitions?

I also have an ultrbay adaptor but this is not a good option as I need to use the CD drive occasionally - especially with the home installation.


Thanks for the replies so far...

[Marin85]

Is there any third party bootmanager (freebie?) that will deal with two active partitions?

Maybe somewhat exotic solution, but you could try installing GRUB, for reference see here, it should recognize all windows installations and "treat them equally"

[RealBlackStuff]

A USB or PCMCIA CD/DVD comes to mind.

The problem with the 2 instances on one HD is the following:
The original (Work) XP was installed on the C-drive.
The original (Home) XP was installed on the C-drive but now resides on the D-drive.
BUT, all the (Home) D-drive registry entries point to the C-drive, and Windows can't stomach that.
You'd need to find a mechanism, that declares both C and D partitions as C, don't think that even exists!
So you either re-install your Home XP on the D-drive (using the old Home key), or use the two HDs with an external CD/DVD.

The most convoluted way would be, to (in the Home XP on D) change ALL the registry entries, ini files, other references to a path from C to D. A daunting task, to say the least, but not impossible. And not worth it, really. Re-install is faster.

[Marin85]

...or just change the disk letter on the original work disk from C to D, create a new image and move it to the second partition of your new HD... That should work, right?

Very interesting topic!

Marin

[RealBlackStuff]

Changing the driveletter won't change anything.
UNLESS you install on the D-drive, all existing references to a path (both Work and Home) point to the C-drive!

[Marin85]

Changing the driveletter won't change anything.
UNLESS you install on the D-drive, all existing references to a path (both Work and Home) point to the C-drive!

True, my fault! Is it then possible to change the paths from within environment variables?

Marin

[RealBlackStuff]

That wouldn't help much.
ANY program that leaves ANY traces in the registry will have to be modified as well!
Fresh install on the other partition is your only hope!

[Marin85]

Fresh install on the other partition is your only hope!

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"

[GomJabbar]

I do believe I see the problem. Originally XP was installed to the C: drive of each hard drive. When you cloned the image to the second partition of the 80GB hard drive, all the drive letter mappings were wrong on the second partition.

IIRC, it is possible to have 2 Primary partitions, and both of them will be the C: drive. You need a boot manager to boot between them though. Grub would probably work. System Commander or OS/2 boot manager should work as well.

http://www.winferno.com/store/brands/VC ... nAodlm1DZg

EDIT: I see RBS already said as much.
EDIT: I said active partitions, and that should have read primary partitions. Edited.

[Marin85]

I wonder if the C-path issue is the only (real) problem here...

[RealBlackStuff]

I have a corporate XPP license.
When I have some time next week, I'll try and install 2 instances on one HD in partitions C and D, see if that works.

[umern]

Thanks for all the replies - now realise I was being a bit foolish in thinking this would be straightforward.

The drive letter thing had not crossed my mind - I just assumed each installation would treat its installation as C: and assign a different letter to the other!

Guess a clean install on the 2nd partition is the simplest way to go!

[RealBlackStuff]

Yup.

[AGoodSolution]

There is no reason you can't multiboot the same licensed version of XP from the same CD and Key from the same hard drive and even on the same partition.
Since you've cleaved the drive, it is even cleaner for you.

Your issues aren't being caused by licensing or drive letters just because you cloned one build to a 2nd partition.
From what you're describing, the ntoskrnl.exe from the 2nd build hasn't even loaded up the "higher brain" functions to determine you're a license scoundrel.

From what you're describing, the XP Splash Screen hasn't appeared yet and the splash screen is embedded in the kernel so your registry hasn't been tapped yet during the boot process.

During the earlier phases of boot, even into the splash screen the system is still referring to files and locations as ARC paths so whether or not you've copied that 1st partition build 10 times on that box, the drive letters aren't your problem.

Although the earlier suggestions of drive letters being the cause were the better than blaming licensing, drive letter issues are commonly encountered when trying to migrate an XP build with Ghost or Acronis (even Windows 2000) systems to new hardware and your system would bluescreen after splash or end up in the notorious logon loop (the loop if you were lucky) because the serial numbers from the hard drives stored in the HKLM\system\MountedDevices key didn't match the actual single character drive letters and new hard drive values in the 2nd half of that registry key. BTW: It is still an effective method to delete or backup that entire MountedDevicesKey when migrating an existing XP build to new hardware and hope XP can boot and autodtect and attempt to install new drivers

It is more than likely, your issues are being caused by something such as boot time add on that you replicated over from the first partition, anything as simple as the Computrace shim

or did you have Acronis SecureZone activated with the Acronis Boot Manager when you replicated that first partition ? That SecureZone is a hidden partition typically a minimum of ~40MB to load the program files and can be as large as you want to store images all day. If you did, then you should boot back into the SecureZone and reinstall the SecureZone or at least the recovery manager (the recovery manager is what gives you that F11 option right before boot.ini choices).

If that doesn't work, or wasn't the cause, or if there are OR WERE other MBR / boot time accessories, then you should try making a new DATA replica of your first image, Acronis can image based on a partition style that captures the MBR and the copy on the back end or it can copy in Explorer style by choosing directories. To ensure you didn't capture some junk from the boot sector of the first partition making an image of the directories and choosing backup "My Data" instead of My Computer is the method to eliminate hidden junk at the front of the MBR.

We may be getting ahead of ourselves, I noticed you didn't try any bootflags inside your boot.ini file and you should append the /sos /bootlog flags at the end of both ARC paths. This is so you can make a fast and deeper comparison of why the 2nd build won't launch.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Work" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /sos /bootlog
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Home" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn /sos /bootlog

I'm reluctant to believe your issue is caused by a misnumbered partition since you'd typically receive a message that "ntdetect.com couldn't locate multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS\system" or antoher file not found error, but take note that drive letters aren't a variable at this point.

Since you're going to load the SOS flag, you'll skip the spash screen and you'll see your drivers load and the system should ostensibly freeze at the last one that loaded or the last that froze. Then, boot back into your Work build and if your eyes are fast enough, try to spot the driver your working build can load afterwards and this will be a point to begin troubleshooting.

In reality, you'll set the bootlog flags on both then compare the busted builds %SystemRoot%\ntbtlog.txt to your working copy and pay special attention to the last line on the busted builds log file.
Since you have a working build, accessing the files on the busted partition will be easy.

I'm confident about these suggestions becuase I've pushed systems into extreme multi boot configs of base builds and with as many as ten different OS's cleaved up into extended partitions on a single hard drive. This was longer ago before VMWare and it was necessary to maintain fresh environments for testing, data DVD's weren't even around yet and it wasn't practical to carry too many hard drives so we'd take a 60GB (big back then) and create an initial 2 GB partition and load NT4 Workstation, then a second 2GB for NT4 Server, then four more 3GB partitions for Windows 2000 Pro, Server, Advanced Server, the last one for XP then my own personal partition for my own duties and another data partition to store the service packs for all of those OS's and patches.

We'd build those systems with gold load and basic device drivers and shelf them until needed.

The reason was if a client was experiencing a security breach, we'd have a platform to replicate their build as closely as possible and build up our OS versions as closely as possible to match their config then compare their aberrations to determine what did or was still happening to them.

Since I've often and still use cloned partitions of XP, Server2003 and numerous other MS products inside booted from or accessing their twins on an Ultrabay..... I've never experienced one of these "detected copy" licensing issues and even if the function was there and I just happen to be the luckiest guy in the world..... what is happening in this question is occurring too early in the boot process to be caused by a deactivated build.

Sadly, Acronis, Ghost and all of these other drive imagers were created to eliminate exactly the options of reinstallation you're considering now.

Also, what you're describing can occur when critical system files are compressed or encrypted, and depending on how early in the boot process those critical files are inaccessible because of compression or encryption / you may never get a visual error message and this could explain that black screen.

So, is that second partition compressed before you replicatd your second build? Because the ntoskrnl does a decent job of preventing you from compressing and encrypting files in use but if your working build compressed those files while they were offline.... it explains why your second build is in a coma.

If none of these ideas work or if you don't have the patience, then you can just image up your working partition then convert it into a virtual machine and there is no way drive letters or licensing are going to cause you issues there but it is too early and your system crashes too early for those suggestions to be the issue now.

Please follow up with the group and let us know how this goes.

[Marin85]

Very interesting! Thanks for the detailed explanation,


Marin

[umern]

wow - that is one detailed reply.
I have already re-installed XP on the 2nd partition and is working well. Hopefully your reply wont be wasted - someone else in the same position in the future may find it usefull.

Once again thanks for all the help.

I decided to reinstall XP on the 2nd partition but it would not accept the license key printed on the bottom on the work pc - says it was invalid during the install stage - dunno if this is because I was installing XP Pro SP3 and the license key was probably for a vanilla XP Pro or an Lenovo IBM specific build or something weird like that. The key of the other laptop also was rejected as invalid at the same install stage. However, I have MSDN at work so tried one of those keys and it accepted that.

Now the dilemna is wether it is legal to use the work MSDN licence on a work laptop for personal use which is dual booted between two XP installs?!?!? My sense of fairness tells me yes it is ok, since the laptop already has a valid XP licencse but I suspect the EULA will beg to differ.

[Marin85]

Changing the driveletter won't change anything.
UNLESS you install on the D-drive, all existing references to a path (both Work and Home) point to the C-drive!

slightly off-topic: I just found something in Vista probably related to what you mention:



Do you think this could resolve a problem that comes from a drive path mismatch (speaking hypothetically here)?

Marin

[RealBlackStuff]

You can't change the drive letter of the partition where your OS is installed, like I've mentioned several times above!
See this also: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstrick ... iveltr.htm

[Marin85]

You can't change the drive letter of the partition where your OS is installed, like I've mentioned several times above!
See this also: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstrick ... iveltr.htm

OK, I think I understand now what you mean. All this "drive", "volume" and "partition" distinction is a little bit confusing (I just saw this thing in Vista and wanted to ask you about it (thinking it could be different in Vista). )

Thanks,

Marin