Don't buy the Seagate 500gb ST9500325AS - Runs very slow

[muffd]

I just want to save you guys some headache with this drive. It runs awfully slow for doing almost any task. Watching .avi files, it seems to skip or slow down. Unrarring is unbelievably slow. Much slower than the original 5400 rpm drive my laptop arrived with. I thought it was acting funny so I did some research and apparently, I wasn't the only one with this issue. I also read about others using this drive for their PS3 and have the same problems. Changing jumper settings did not help either. I ordered the WD 500 drive for my T61 and should have it tomorrow. I'll report how that one fares in the Thinkpad.

Off to Ebay this goes!

[Marin85]

Your Seagate HD could be faulty (hence the awful performance). Did you check for bad sectors, SMART warnings etc?

[muffd]

I ran a scandisk and it returned nothing. Do you suggest running another tool to see if the drive is faulty? I thought it was just mine too until I read about others having the same problem.

[Marin85]

I ran a scandisk and it returned nothing. Do you suggest running another tool to see if the drive is faulty? I thought it was just mine too until I read about others having the same problem.

Well, at least you could try. If something comes up, you could try your warranty (provided the drive is still under such). To list a few tools:
1. Everest (not sure if they have a free version)
2. HDTune (it may not be able to read Seagate SMART data like in my case but I can check for errors)
3. HDD Health (I recommend this for reading the SMART data because it seems to me to be most "objective" and clear one)
4. Seatools
5. PC-Doctor (aka Lenovo System Toolbox)

[muffd]

Thanks Marin, I will try this out tonight. Wish I brought it to work with me.

[Marin85]

Thanks Marin, I will try this out tonight. Wish I brought it to work with me.

No prob, I´m also looking forward to seeing your results. Although I have a different drive from yours, it would be kind of feedback for me as I´m recently having some phobias concerning my Seagate drive. Thanks,

Marin

[muffd]

I hope it works. Worst case, I already ordered that WD, I can give that to my wife and put it in her T60.

[muffd]

Hey Marin,
I just wanted to let you know the drive checked out fine. I think it's just something with this particular model. My WD drive comes in Monday or Tuesday. I'll compare the two and let you all know the difference between the two.

Thanks

[Marin85]

Thanks for the info and sorry to hear about the drive. I hope you will have more luck with the next one. A 7200rpm should be ok

Cheers,

Marin

[muffd]

Are there any 7200 500gb drives yet? I don't think I've seen em but if I do, I'd rather have that.

[muffd]

Nevermind, I just saw the Seagate one on Newegg. Wish I ordered that one now instead of the WD that's supposed to arrive Monday.

[Marin85]

Are there any 7200 500gb drives yet? I don't think I've seen em but if I do, I'd rather have that.

Sorry, my fault. I have overseen that you are looking for a 500 GB drive The 7200.4 should become available by April. The data sheet looks very impressive, I can´t wait to see some real-life performance benchmarks of it. It will come with "only" 3 year warranty from Seagate (unlike the 5 year warranty of 7200.3), but what is more important it will be very fast 500 GB HD that fits in a laptop! I´m so much in need for something like this right now that I would buy 2 of them right away when they become available here in Germany...unless Hitachi would announce a 2.5'' 7200rpm 1TB model

Cheers,

Marin

[pae77]

Over the past 5 years or so, I've had really good luck with the Hitachi 7200 rpm laptop drives, starting with the 60 GB version and now currently running with two 320 GB versions (the second one is for having a cloned backup).

I know the specs on the Hitachi's aren't the highest, but I think they are still pretty good, and they have good reliability and power management.

The 320 GB 7k320's are so cheap currently it's almost unbelievable at about $60 each I believe after mail in rebate at newegg.

Of course, I'd love to have a fast 500 GB version or better yet 1 TB, after the initial price comes down a bit. But in the meantime, I'm making do with the 320's and storing video files and other similar stuff on my old 200's and running them from the ultrabay.

[Marin85]

In addition to what pae77 said, I can highly recommend Hitachi 7K200 although it´s "only" 200 GB. In my experience these are rock-solid drives with excellent performance. It even has better access times than the current "star" Seagate 7200.3. But supposedly this is going to change with the upcoming 7200.4 claiming access times of 11ms... From the latest I have seen these drives will become available by the end of this month.

[muffd]

Okay, I just got the WD 500gb Blue drive. I'm going to start cloning the drive and start transfering data before I can tell y'all how this thing is running.

I too remember when I got my first 7200 rpm 60gb drive for my T40P and thought I was the coolest guy at work. hahha.

[muffd]

I got this yesterday but still didn't run any tests but can you tell that right off the bat this drive is much better than the Seagate that was here last week. I don't experience any lag with any of the normal everyday tasks that I was seeing last week. Watching HD downloads was perfect and something I could not say when the Seagate was installed. I am debating now if I should get one of these for my wife to put in her T60.

[bautista.ekonomista]

I got this yesterday but still didn't run any tests but can you tell that right off the bat this drive is much better than the Seagate that was here last week. I don't experience any lag with any of the normal everyday tasks that I was seeing last week. Watching HD downloads was perfect and something I could not say when the Seagate was installed. I am debating now if I should get one of these for my wife to put in her T60.

Although this thread has long been dormant, I'd just like to share a few thoughts about this issue.

What brought me here was my problem regarding the occasional clicking sound I've been hearing from my Seagate 500GB 5400.6 HDD, which I bought just recently (by the way, here's my original post about my incessant problem:http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 76#p544176). And for the most part of the day (good thing it's a holiday here in Manila today, so we don't have work) I had spent the whole afternoon probing the Internet for solutions.

And these are some facts I've gathered so far:

(1) T61s are running on the 1.5GB/s SATA I interface, while the aforementioned HDD (Seagate 500gb ST9500325AS) runs on SATA II (3.0GB/s). I'm no computer expert here, but the advertised speed gains to be experienced by switching to a SATA II HDD cannot be achieved when using the said piece of hardware with a T61 (here's a thread wherein T61 users debate on the merits of the said case: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthr ... 72&page=14).

(2) According to the datasheet for T61 machines (both the regular and /p variants) the maximum amount of drive space they can support only run up to 250GB. Last Friday, I gave Lenovo's Customer Service hotline to confirm this and the girl on the phone said that indeed T61s can just support 5400RPM drives up to 250 GB, at least on paper. That's why problems may exist if users go beyond such limit. And that's probably the reason why there are so many reports of hard drives beyond the 250GB limit experiencing some sort of glitches.

(3) Like what I posted in the thread I started talking about clicking sounds in a Seagate 500gb ST9500325AS HDD, the motherboard might not be able to provide that much voltage/electric power to run the HDD optimally, since when I try to use the HDD in a USB enclosure the clicking just dies down. I've talked to several people already about my problem and the first thing they say upon hearing my concern is that my drive is probably part of a sub-par production run. And yet after I returned the original HDD they sent me (the online seller from which I bought the Seagate HDD), they told me that, upon testing the drive, it just runs normal. So probably the clicking has something to do with the machine, and not with the HDD's mechanics.

I hope I've raised some pertinent and credible issues here for other members of the forum can read and ponder about. I think it would also help everyone if the moderators and the Thinkpad uber-bosses out there can pitch in their thoughts.

Again, thanks a lot!

[yak]

My $0.02 on the first two:

(1) Yes, T61 is limited to SATA-I speeds, 1.5Gbit/s which roughly equals to transfer of 150MB/s of raw data. I don't know what's the maximum throughput of your Seagate drive but it definitely does not exceed 100MB/s. So you see, the only type of drives you will hot the SATA-I barrier with are SSDs. Your T61 can handle everything your Seagate drive can deliver.

(2) I haven't read these datasheets but they probably list what HDDs the T61 could be ordered with. There's no technical barrier at 250GB. You certainly won't have any problems with drivers bigger than that, I myself am using a 320GB drive in a T60 and there are numerous reports here from people using 320GB and 500GB drives in T60 and newer ThinkPads (not older ones because they use PATA connectors).

[bautista.ekonomista]

My $0.02 on the first two:

(1) Yes, T61 is limited to SATA-I speeds, 1.5Gbit/s which roughly equals to transfer of 150MB/s of raw data. I don't know what's the maximum throughput of your Seagate drive but it definitely does not exceed 100MB/s. So you see, the only type of drives you will hot the SATA-I barrier with are SSDs. Your T61 can handle everything your Seagate drive can deliver.

(2) I haven't read these datasheets but they probably list what HDDs the T61 could be ordered with. There's no technical barrier at 250GB. You certainly won't have any problems with drivers bigger than that, I myself am using a 320GB drive in a T60 and there are numerous reports here from people using 320GB and 500GB drives in T60 and newer ThinkPads (not older ones because they use PATA connectors).

Yak,

If that's the case for any T61 lappy, why then numerous complaints from other forums? As much as I want to believe that it's the Seagate HDD that's problematic and not my T61, every time I test the HDD I get contrary answers.

Nevertheless, thanks for those enlightening words. When I bought my ThinkPad almost two years ago, I was just after the black box, never thinking of these specifications. Next time I'll have the opportunity to buy a new ThinkPad, I'll definitely do some in-depth research first.

Thanks a lot!

[Troels]

I've read a lot of irks and bugs when using the 7200.4 series with the T61/p ... i just don't get it. It works without any problems in T60/ps, whether capped to SATA I or not. I haven't heard of people having issues with SATA II on different notebooks that support it, so something regarding the implementation of SATA II on the T61/p is different.

3) If all other solutions fail, it might be because of the power management technology which is used (supported in ATA standards) and head parking. My external P7K500 does the same, but i cannot change this behaviour due to the fact that it is connected by USB.
So, taking no responsibility of the outcome :
Download hdparm: http://hdparm-win32.dyndns.org/hdparm/ (last one)
Run from a command prompt from the directory where hdparm.exe is located:

Code: Select all

hdparm -i hda

and verify that "Model:" corresponds to the drive model no. you want to modify the power settings for.
If it is, run:

Code: Select all

hdparm -B 254 hda

Not sure if this voids any warranty though, so be careful.

[Eudoxus]

If there are some problems with SATA II and T61, then it is clear, that bot all machines are affected. I used to run Momentus 7200.4 for a while and no problems at all. However, I removed the drive from my machine as the proformance gain was not as big to justify the noise. Now I am waiting for WD Scorpio Blue 320GB drive which is going to arrive tomorrow. Let's see hot it performs in comparison to Momentus 7200.4 Some members of this venerable forum have said, that WD should be a bit more responsive in spite of the fact that it is 5400RPM drive.

[bautista.ekonomista]

If there are some problems with SATA II and T61, then it is clear, that bot all machines are affected. I used to run Momentus 7200.4 for a while and no problems at all. However, I removed the drive from my machine as the proformance gain was not as big to justify the noise. Now I am waiting for WD Scorpio Blue 320GB drive which is going to arrive tomorrow. Let's see hot it performs in comparison to Momentus 7200.4 Some members of this venerable forum have said, that WD should be a bit more responsive in spite of the fact that it is 5400RPM drive.

Having read all these comments, I was thinking that I should have gotten the Scorpio Blue than the Momentus Drive.

Oh well, I can't replace this hard drive with another one even if I just add a few dollars on the HDD's list price.

[Eudoxus]

I just sold my Momentus 7200.4 and invested the money in Scorpio Blue.

Hope it will work as expected.

[bautista.ekonomista]

I just sold my Momentus 7200.4 and invested the money in Scorpio Blue.

Hope it will work as expected.

We'll eagerly wait for results of your switch to WD Scorpio Blue. If it's goof, I might also take the plunge.

[bautista.ekonomista]

I've read a lot of irks and bugs when using the 7200.4 series with the T61/p ... i just don't get it. It works without any problems in T60/ps, whether capped to SATA I or not. I haven't heard of people having issues with SATA II on different notebooks that support it, so something regarding the implementation of SATA II on the T61/p is different.

3) If all other solutions fail, it might be because of the power management technology which is used (supported in ATA standards) and head parking. My external P7K500 does the same, but i cannot change this behaviour due to the fact that it is connected by USB.
So, taking no responsibility of the outcome :
Download hdparm: http://hdparm-win32.dyndns.org/hdparm/ (last one)
Run from a command prompt from the directory where hdparm.exe is located:

Code: Select all

hdparm -i hda

and verify that "Model:" corresponds to the drive model no. you want to modify the power settings for.
If it is, run:

Code: Select all

hdparm -B 254 hda

Not sure if this voids any warranty though, so be careful.

Just tried the fix. I'll observe what'll happen and report to you guys of the results.

Thanks for the tip!

[bautista.ekonomista]

Is the hdparm fix permanent; that is, every after reboot, I don't have to set the fix?

After rebooting my T61, I can still hear the clicking sound.

I really am losing hope with my Seagate drive and makes me think that I did indeed made a dumb decision in going for a Seagate HDD. I should've trusted my instincts about WD.

[bautista.ekonomista]

Is the hdparm fix permanent; that is, every after reboot, I don't have to set the fix?

After rebooting my T61, I can still hear the clicking sound.

I really am losing hope with my Seagate drive and makes me think that I did indeed made a dumb decision in going for a Seagate HDD. I should've trusted my instincts about WD.

By the way, I just tried tinkering with the HDD's acoustic management settings, by typing

Code: Select all

hdparm -M 254 hda

but hdparm responds with

Code: Select all

setting acoustic management to 254
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD:ACOUSTIC failed: Input/output error
acoustic              =   0 <128=quiet ... 254=fast>

I tried googling it and some forums [http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-List ... 08192.html] say that adjusting the acoustic management settings for SATA drives just don't work.

[bautista.ekonomista]

I think the drive already died.

When I was booting to Windows, the laptop started to run CHKDSK. Then after doing the cursory checkup, it hangs after this code appears:

Code: Select all

USN journal verification completed

Is there still a way to log into windows and recover my files? I really am ditching this SEAGATE MOMENTUS HDD.

[Troels]

First, yes i don't think acoustic management can be set either, at least not by hdparm.
My HDD hasn't clicked every since, but i remember that when i entered the same command, it said that the current power management was unknown, and would be voided by applying the 254 level.
If this is true for other drives i'm not sure, but the only solution would be a start-up script to run that command in that case.
Kinda horrible that it should click that much though!


Secondly... did you do anything out of the ordinary before re-booting, i.e. system reset etc. ? Try shutting it down manually and see if it goes past this. It sounds like this:
http://forums.techguy.org/windows-xp/49 ... oblem.html
Unless you run Seagate's own drive fitness tools, there's no certain way to know if the hdd is dead or not. I really doubt that it is though.

[bautista.ekonomista]

First, yes i don't think acoustic management can be set either, at least not by hdparm.
My HDD hasn't clicked every since, but i remember that when i entered the same command, it said that the current power management was unknown, and would be voided by applying the 254 level.
If this is true for other drives i'm not sure, but the only solution would be a start-up script to run that command in that case.
Kinda horrible that it should click that much though!


Secondly... did you do anything out of the ordinary before re-booting, i.e. system reset etc. ? Try shutting it down manually and see if it goes past this. It sounds like this:
http://forums.techguy.org/windows-xp/49 ... oblem.html
Unless you run Seagate's own drive fitness tools, there's no certain way to know if the hdd is dead or not. I really doubt that it is though.

Troels,

As far as I am concerned, I wasn't doing anything quirky or stupid with my T61. However, I did enable quietHDD as a service c/o this link: http://xenomorph.net/misc-and-old-stuff ... rd-drives/.

After a few restarts, nothing weird in particular was happening with my hard drive. And then something just happened: the computer just froze, with windows explorer being rendered as entirely useless (had to stop the process, bring it back to life and then subsequently hangs). After forcing a hard restart, the CHKDSK error just flared up and won't go past the USN journal verification complete notice.

I've used Seagate's SeaTools diagnostics software, but it can't complete the Long Generic test, indicating that there are indeed bad sectors that the software cannot just fix. I confirmed this upon running HDTune with the HDD, with the latter connected to my T61 through a USB enclosure. I don't know if the HDD's really dead; I can still access my files through the said USB enclosure. But as far as using it as a primary internal HDD, I think it's already bricked.

Thanks for the reply and the link you've generously provided!