T500 and Virtual Machines

[jap@tks]

Hello fellow ThinkPaddlers!

I am new here. Forgive me if I am asking any ignorant questions. I did read a number of threads before jumping into the pool, but don't have time to read them all.

I currently have a T42 but I just ordered a T500 with all the best options. My T42 has WinXP Pro SP2 and it was running great even though it is about 4 years old until yesterday when I noticed that humm... the USB ports don't work any more, they worked last night, with devices that they have been connected to for, literally years. A few weeks ago, it went more like this, 'Gee the Biometric thingy does not work', but who cares I can still logon, and a few weeks earlier, 'Gee my GPS connected to COM1: used to work (a month or two ago)', but I must have installed something that it using the same IRQ or who knows what, too busy to play with that now.

Then thanks to this wonderful forum, I now know that this is not such an uncommon phenomenon after all. It seems that there are a number of people that have had their T series USB ports disappear over the past 2 years. This does kind of anger me because I expected better from a ThinkPad. I have been using TP notebook since they first came out. My first one was a 755CE (which still works, last time I turned it on, a few years ago).

So, my question...

I ordered my new T500 (it is not here yet) to be preloaded with what they call "Windows Vista Business with Windows XP Pro downgrade" which as far as I know, means it will come with WinXP Pro installed but I have the right to upgrade to Vista later when I am ready. I selected this option because I need to get some work done! I don't want to have any 'fun' Windows issues. I don't want any of my applications to not like Vista or the 64 bit world. When I was younger I liked new things from Microsoft, now I find it a pain when my world becomes unstable because of some MS product. I guess I am just old, or maybe I expect professionalism.

Anyway, I really do want to start working with Vista 64 so I can start developing for this platform. I am considering buying VMware Workstation or something similar so I can also install Vista32 and/or Vista64 on the same machine. I have never done this before. I used to use System Commander to boot into different OS configurations, but I guess that is old news. VM sounds like the way to go.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Are there any issues I should look out for? For example, some thoughts that come to mind are:
- Do I just buy a new copy of Vista64 and install it into a virtual machine space? Is that how it works?
- Do I need a special Vista64 from Lenovo to do this? I want it to be as close as possible to running Vista64 as if it where pre-installation on the system. But I want to to run separately. I will continue to use WinXP for a long while I suspect.
- When I install, will it see all of my native hardware?
- Do I have to allocate separate areas of the disk or Memory to each OS? Or do they share?
- Are the devices shared among all of the running VM OSs? If this works nicely, I will probably also install Red Hat too.

VM is new to me and I can imagine a number of possible ways this can work. Any wisdom would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joseph

[Marin85]

Welcome to Forum, Joseph!

Then thanks to this wonderful forum, I now know that this is not such an uncommon phenomenon after all. It seems that there are a number of people that have had their T series USB ports disappear over the past 2 years. This does kind of anger me because I expected better from a ThinkPad. I have been using TP notebook since they first came out. My first one was a 755CE (which still works, last time I turned it on, a few years ago).

I believe the USB phenomenon is not ThinkPad-specific but XP-related. You probably have already seen the sticky in the forum on this matter.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Are there any issues I should look out for? For example, some thoughts that come to mind are:
- Do I just buy a new copy of Vista64 and install it into a virtual machine space? Is that how it works?
- Do I need a special Vista64 from Lenovo to do this? I want it to be as close as possible to running Vista64 as if it where pre-installation on the system. But I want to to run separately. I will continue to use WinXP for a long while I suspect.
- When I install, will it see all of my native hardware?
- Do I have to allocate separate areas of the disk or Memory to each OS? Or do they share?
- Are the devices shared among all of the running VM OSs? If this works nicely, I will probably also install Red Hat too.

Yes, for the VM you will need some installation media of Vista x64, it could be also virtual like an .iso image. After installing the VMware Workstation, you can start creating the VM. You only need to provide the source/installation media, say physical DVD or an .iso image (AFAIK, VMware support only .iso images), then you set the basics up like how much RAM and disk space the VM should use, how much cpu cores (in your case 1 or 2) the VM should use, peripherals etc, it´s very intuitive piece of software. There are also some more advanced settings that you can change by editing an configuration file of the VM. After doing this, VMware boots (yup, it has also its own BIOS) into the installation media and from there on you can install it just like a regular installation procedure on the HD space assigned to the VM

The earlier versions of VMware allowed installing trial versions of Windows, which means that you don´t need windows license to run a VM. After the trial period is over, one could simply reinstall it, which isn´t that much of a pain since it´s not a main setup (well, again, that depends pretty much on what you are doing with the VM). The recent versions require valid license, but there could be some workaround for this or setting in VM. I´m really not sure what is the exact license status of windows VMs. As you are a developer, I assume you are going to have quite some stuff on the VM, so the best way for you to go would be probably licensing it even if you pick an older version of VMware.

You don´t necessarily need a Lenovo installation media. Clean Vista installation media should be fine. However, since you want it to be as close to the Lenovo preload as possible, you have 2 options:
1. Using an original Lenovo windows (recovery) media. In this case you will have to reserve some more HD space, as it will probably install all the predesktop area and the hidden (recovery) partition
2. Installing a clean copy of windows and then installing all Lenovo programs.
Due to the VMware there would be probably some limitations like Active Protection which I highly doubt won´t work.

The VM won´t be able to see all your hardware. In particular, it cannot use the gpu yet, but this may change with future updates. The latest version use some well improved graphics acceleration. Also, it can´t access the "external" hard drive, it has its own virtual HD, but you will be able to copy/paste files from the host to the VM without problems. The VM can use your USBs, fingerprint, CD/DVD (not sure about infrared, firewire and bluetooth though). Also, internet connection won´t be a problem as it can utilize NAT or bridging (and some more) over the host OS to the web.

In the latest version of VMware, the assigned space to the VM is so to say dynamically shared between host and VM, i.e. if you don´t use the whole assigned space for the VM, some part of the remaining space can be used by the OS. Of course, the VM enjoys higher priority on this space. I´m not sure though if this "dynamic sharing" applies also when the VM is started. As for RAM usage, as soon as you boot into the VM, it occupies all the RAM you have assigned to it when having set up the VM. After shutdown of the VM, this portion of RAM is again freed up and available to the applications in your host system.

I can´t tell you about running multiple VMs at the same time, but I could imagine that some of the devices (like USB and DVD drive) are used in a shared manner.

A side note: As for "Windows Vista Business with Windows XP Pro downgrade" I have always assumed that the machine is shipped with Vista and included Lenovo XP (downgrade) recovery media. If it is the other way around, you will be able to profit from the extra Lenovo Vista recovery media, which you could use for the VM.


Hope this helps

Marin

[freakwave]

Dear Joseph,

perhaps you should think about using the vista64 as your main os. I know this is a tough step, but when you want to run several vmwares you need memory. And with XP you are limited to 3Gig of memory.
Assuming you have 4 Gig in the notebook, vista64 gives you these 4Gig and you have the option to put in up to 8Gig into your machine.
As for vista 64, yes it is a pain in the beginning. After using it almost half a year, here are the most important limitation to me:

- cisco vpn client not supported under vista64
- netmeeting not supported (you can connect to other netmeetings but desktop sharing is disabled)
- meeting space (replaces netmeeting) is just junk. It requires IP V6 networks.
- avaya ip phone issues

Otherwise, I did not experienced any other issues. It runs rock solid. I had exactly one blue screen in the last 5 months.
I run several vmwares, mostly windows 2003 and xp.

Kind regards,

Wolfgang

[Marin85]

perhaps you should think about using the vista64 as your main os. I know this is a tough step, but when you want to run several vmwares you need memory. And with XP you are limited to 3Gig of memory.
Assuming you have 4 Gig in the notebook, vista64 gives you these 4Gig and you have the option to put in up to 8Gig into your machine.

...or alternatively, one can use XP x64 (or even some server OS). However, there is no official Lenovo support for these, so one has to be somewhat creative to find all the needed drivers, and probably not all of them will work no matter what...

[Rich.Carpenter]

- cisco vpn client not supported under vista64

This may have been resolved, but I don't know for certain. I do know that my company uses the Cisco VPN, and the Security department recently sent out a notification of a new VPN client we could download that would run on 64-bit Vista machines. This may be a non-Cisco solution. I've not investigated it further to confirm.

As far as the XP Pro downgrade, I would be surprised if you could legally run a Vista VM on an XP host when they are both on the same license. You can run one or the other, just not both at the same time.

[Marin85]

As far as the XP Pro downgrade, I would be surprised if you could legally run a Vista VM on an XP host when they are both on the same license. You can run one or the other, just not both at the same time.

Good point! That will be definitely interesting to see (I guess at least it´s worth a try)

[Marin85]

Update:
(1) "Vista with option to downgrade to XP" means the machine is shipped with Lenovo XP preloaded and recovery DVDs for Vista I just checked that out).
(2) It is not possible to use Lenovo Vista recovery DVDs to create a VM in VMware workstation because the initialization program doesn´t recognize a ThinkPad within the VM (I just tried that out, my host system is Win 7 x64, so no license issues could be the case).

Marin

[Rich.Carpenter]

Good to know, Marin85. However, could one not capture the activation key from their ThinkPad installed environment and then, using normal installation media, install in a VM and then restore that activation key? This still wouldn't allow you to run both at once, but with Windows 7 as host, you may be able to set up Windows in the VM using your Lenovo activation key.

[Marin85]

I would suggest you having a look at this thread concerning licensing issues. My experience was that an extracted key from the Lenovo image (not the one from the COA sticker on the bottom of the laptop) would work with a clean installation media. I can´t tell if it was OEM, retailer or some kind of corporate though... But I have heard of other folks with similar experience, so I believe I´m not some kind of isolated case...

Marin

[Marin85]

Update: I have to correct myself. In the newest version of VMware workstation there is a legal way to skip entering a license key (in case of windows). The latest version uses the python-based Easy Install, which requires for a windows VM at some stage of the installation process to enter a serial. Not doing so results in windows BSODs due to licensing issues and there is no way to boot into the VM. However, if one selects to install the OS later and is thus able to choose "other OS" from the list of suggested OSes, Easy Install doesn´t apply. The only limitation is that one cannot install VMware tools afterwards since the OS is set to so to say unknown. I believe the only workaround for this is to capture the VMware tools as an .iso on a working windows VM, which can be then used in other windows VMs as well

Cheers,

Marin

[jap@tks]

First, thank you for all the great replies. I know you all probably think I was abducted by aliens just after hitting the send key. Actually, I am fine, I just had work to do for days at a time before I can come up to breath.

I do have some comments and perhaps a question more.

Yes, for the VM you will need some installation media of Vista x64, it could be also virtual like an .iso image. After installing the VMware Workstation, you can start creating the VM. You only need to provide the source/installation media, say physical DVD or an .iso image (AFAIK, VMware support only .iso images), then you set the basics up like how much RAM and disk space the VM should use, how much cpu cores (in your case 1 or 2) the VM should use, peripherals etc, it´s very intuitive piece of software. There are also some more advanced settings that you can change by editing an configuration file of the VM. After doing this, VMware boots (yup, it has also its own BIOS) into the installation media and from there on you can install it just like a regular installation procedure on the HD space assigned to the VM

etc... (including all the details about running VMware)

Sounds good! I will almost certain get this product. It sounds like just the thing for me. I see the point freakware was making about ideally I should run Vista 64 and an XP VM but I already ordered the machine and when I saw that Cisco VPN client has issues, I don't want to go there. I have an important customer that I connect to via Cisco VPN and the funny thing about this customer is, they pay me, so I don't want to break that app.

The earlier versions of VMware allowed installing trial versions of Windows, which means that you don´t need windows license to run a VM. After the trial period is over, one could simply reinstall it, which isn´t that much of a pain since it´s not a main setup (well, again, that depends pretty much on what you are doing with the VM). The recent versions require valid license, but there could be some workaround for this or setting in VM. I´m really not sure what is the exact license status of windows VMs. As you are a developer, I assume you are going to have quite some stuff on the VM, so the best way for you to go would be probably licensing it even if you pick an older version of VMware.

You don´t necessarily need a Lenovo installation media. Clean Vista installation media should be fine. However, since you want it to be as close to the Lenovo preload as possible, you have 2 options:
1. Using an original Lenovo windows (recovery) media. In this case you will have to reserve some more HD space, as it will probably install all the predesktop area and the hidden (recovery) partition
2. Installing a clean copy of windows and then installing all Lenovo programs.
Due to the VMware there would be probably some limitations like Active Protection which I highly doubt won´t work.

etc... (including the discussion with Rich.Carpenter about Windows Vista License keys)

If I have to license Vista 64 to get this to work, this is fine. I don't want to spend time trying to reverse engineer their activation process. Also, I believe in paying for software. That is how I make my living! What goes around comes around.

However, since I paid for Windows Vista (32 or 64 bit) when I bought the machine and I only want to run XP because I have YEARS of distrust of Microsoft (the company and the products), it would be fair to me if they said (as a small company would), "Feel free to run XP and Vista at the same time until you are comfortable with migrating to out latest product, we hope you like it, let us know if you have any problems, Have a nice day!", but that will not be happening any time soon.

So, I would really like to be able to install Vista 64 as a step toward migration. VMware just affords me a degree of protection that Microsoft does not provide (and could care less about).

A side note: As for "Windows Vista Business with Windows XP Pro downgrade" I have always assumed that the machine is shipped with Vista and included Lenovo XP (downgrade) recovery media. If it is the other way around, you will be able to profit from the extra Lenovo Vista recovery media, which you could use for the VM.

Update:
(1) "Vista with option to downgrade to XP" means the machine is shipped with Lenovo XP preloaded and recovery DVDs for Vista I just checked that out).
(2) It is not possible to use Lenovo Vista recovery DVDs to create a VM in VMware workstation because the initialization program doesn´t recognize a ThinkPad within the VM (I just tried that out, my host system is Win 7 x64, so no license issues could be the case).

I got a few different answers from them when I called. I will see what I get when I get it. One guy told me I can just order which ever media I don't have and pay a small fee. I will probably do this. I presume the only advantage would be to have upgrade media for upgrading XP eventually. Am I correct in assuming that I can upgrade from XP 32 to Vista 64 (VMware aside) when I am ready?

However, if I understand you guys correctly, the Vista 64 OS will detect the XP OS even through it is outside the VM and complain about running two version of the OS on the same machine. Does it do this by connecting to MS via the internet?

Thanks again for all your help (all of you). I may have a few more questions when I get the machine and VMware.

On a personal note, Marin, you are in Munich? My wife is from Munich. We live about an hour away on A92 near Dingolfing when we are there. Are you Bayerish, or just visiting?

Best regards (Mit freundlichen Grüßen)

Joseph

[Marin85]

However, if I understand you guys correctly, the Vista 64 OS will detect the XP OS even through it is outside the VM and complain about running two version of the OS on the same machine. Does it do this by connecting to MS via the internet?

I´m not sure I understand your question. Do you mean like the guest OS recognizing the host OS?

Now, when you mention again about Vista x64 and that you want to become familiar with it, something important comes to my mind. The last time I checked it was not possible to run a x64 guest OS in VM under 32-bit host OS So, if you want to run Vista x64 as a VM, you will definitely need XP x64 for that. I´ll check this out again and post back about the recent state of things.

Regarding my majesty, no, I´m not from Bavaria, I´m not even from Germany, I´m kind of kidnapped here, but I´m nevertheless enjoying all the Bavarian goodies starting with Weißwürstle und Doppelbockbier and finishing somewhere at Bayerische Motorwerke

Pfiati...

Marin

EDIT: Further investigation of the x64 guest - x86 host OS shows that such a configurations shouldn´t be a problem in general. There are a few reports of running x64 Vista guest under XP (32-bit) without any problems on x64-capable hardware. However, I wasn´t able to run any x64 OS (Vista, WIn 7, Server, Linux) under Vista x86 host OS, which appears to have been an issue between VMWare workstation and Vista and which may have been, hopefully, resolved with the latest versions. At least this is what I found on the VMware forums.

[jasonth]

As long as your CPU supports VT Technology you most certainly can run a 64bit virtual machine on a 32bit host. Pretty awesome, eh!?

32bit XP for your laptop with 64bit Windows 2008 server will run great - if you need less than 3GB of memory.

The advantage of running a 64bit Host OS is to make more addressable memory available to your applications - including virtual machines. So keep that in mind.

Also, if you're a developer you may want to look at becoming a member of the MSDN so you don't have to purchase OS's just for testing. Or you could download trials for short term testing.

VMWare has made virtual machines run very independent - with hardware switching like USB devices, CD-Roms, etc, between the host appear to be plug-and-play events to the virtual machines. The Virtual machine is the ultimate virgin install of an OS because the drivers are so generic. Even more so if you opt out of installing VMWare tools.

I'm a huge VMWare proponent so sorry if I babble on and on.

Cheers,
Jason

[Marin85]

The advantage of running a 64bit Host OS is to make more addressable memory available to your applications - including virtual machines. So keep that in mind.

Good point! Otherwise, you (the OP) may have to stick to the infamous /3GB switch, which is definitely not the best-optimal solution...

[jasonth]

The advantage of running a 64bit Host OS is to make more addressable memory available to your applications - including virtual machines. So keep that in mind.

Good point! Otherwise, you (the OP) may have to stick to the infamous /3GB switch, which is definitely not the best-optimal solution...

Very good point. Even then, you are limited to 2GB (IIRC) per application (or in this case, virtual machine). So you're still limiting yourself... but not as much as before. I think the T500 can max out at 8GB of ram?

There are many advantages of running a 64bit OS, and in my opinion Vista 64 is more stable and has more driver support than xp 64. Even if it IS Vista, you can turn a lot of the bloat off and actually make it a decently streamlined OS.

[Marin85]

AFAIK, the only reasonable point in turning on the /3GB switch is to increase the available system memory per application over those 2 GBs. But this would be reasonable only with a x86 Server OS that can utilize more than 3 GB of system memory in total. Since XP (32-bit) is limited in any case to 3 GB, turning on the switch may even lead to performance degradation of the host.

T500 could probably take even more than 8 GBs if someone was to produce 204-pin 8 GB modules (guess only a matter of time)

[jap@tks]

Thanks again for all the great insights.

Here is a question. Mind you I have not even gotten the machine yet, but I have ordered VMware Workstation.

My machine is expected to con pre-installed with Windows XP-32 as I requested. My understanding is that I can order the Vista-64 OS media for my machine (either it comes with it or I can order it), because I did pay for a Vista license. Given what you say about 64 bit OSs and VMs, what do you guys think of this. I can upgrade the XP-32 to Vista-64 as soon as I get it, then install VMware and create a XP-32 guest VM to run whatever apps I have that are not happy in Vista-64 land. That should work, right? Are there any reason my apps will not like running on XP-32 in a VM? There should not be, right? For example, the Cisco VPN client. The XP VM should act like it is running as the host and it does have network access etc. Any reason you can see for not going this route?

BTW, regarding...

I believe the USB phenomenon is not ThinkPad-specific but XP-related. You probably have already seen the sticky in the forum on this matter.

where exactly is the sticky section? I read a lot of threads but did not see a final sticky with some sort of final answer.

Thanks,
Joseph

[Marin85]

Regarding the XP 32-bit as a guest VM: yes, running 32-bit XP a guest VM under Vista x64 host shouldn´t be a problem at all. Regarding Cisco VPN, I really don´t know how it will work in the VM because the VM is connected through the host OS via bridging or NAT (or, more exotic, some specific virtual network) to the outside world. For the same reason I´m not even sure if running VPN software inside a VM, for other than testing purposes, makes any sense. I believe there are more knowledgeable forum members who could answer this question better.

You can find the USB sticky right here in the T60 subforum. I guess the XP subforum would have been a more suitable place for this sticky...

Marin

[freakwave]

In regards to the Cisco VPN, I think there are several solutions.

I am running the Juniper Network Connect against a Cisco VPN switch. The requirement is here that the Cisco VPN switch supports the SSL VPN's. The old Cisco VPN client connects via IPsec. So thats the difference. And I only know one client which supports IPsec on Vista 64, and that is NCP. I tested NCP but was not able to connect to our company network.
Luckily we have one SSL VPN gateway, so I can use the Juniper client.

There is a new Cisco VPN client out called Cisco anyconnect, which also runs on Vista 64, but again, no IPsec support, only SSL VPN.

It is really hard to believe that Cisco has no Vista 64 IPsec client, but that just shows how few big companies are running Vista 64 on their clients.

In regards to vmwares, I run all kind of vmware's und Vista 64, e.g. Red Hat enterprise Server 32, Windows 2003 32 and also Windows XP. I am pretty sure that the old Cisco VPN client works under XP Vmware.

This is really the very first time I have all the resources I need, plenty of Memory and super fast CPU. Running three vmware's with 1.5 Gig Memory each is no problem, you still have plenty of free RAM for your fat Notes Client and all office applications at once.

Wolfgang

[Marin85]

This is really the very first time I have all the resources I need, plenty of Memory and super fast CPU.

...and being portable Wolfgang, you have one nicely configured machine

[jap@tks]

Quick Question.

Now that I have a new T500 with Windows XP installed, how do I get it upgraded to Windows Vista 64? Or perhaps I should say, what is the best path.

Do I just order the Vista 64 Recovery DVD for my T500 model even though it already has XP? Or is there a Vista 64 upgrade DVD I need? Or do I order Vista 64 from MS? Or is there another method?

I want to my machine to run Vista 64 like it was pre-loaded based on everything I learned above (wish I had had this discussion before I ordered the machine).

My plan is to upgrade the machine to Vista 64 and then install, VMware and setup a Windows XP 32 VM. Then I will install and run whatever I can in Vista 64 and and anything else I will run in the WinXP VM. Sound reasonable?

Also, is it better to install Vista 64 then my Apps or install my Apps on XP then upgrade to Vista 64? I would guess it is better the first way.

I am not getting any clear answers from Lenovo at all. Is there a phone number at Lenovo where I can get "knowledgable" answers to these questions.

Thanks,
Joseph

[Rich.Carpenter]

My machine is expected to con pre-installed with Windows XP-32 as I requested. My understanding is that I can order the Vista-64 OS media for my machine (either it comes with it or I can order it), because I did pay for a Vista license. Given what you say about 64 bit OSs and VMs, what do you guys think of this. I can upgrade the XP-32 to Vista-64 as soon as I get it, then install VMware and create a XP-32 guest VM to run whatever apps I have that are not happy in Vista-64 land. That should work, right? Are there any reason my apps will not like running on XP-32 in a VM? There should not be, right? For example, the Cisco VPN client. The XP VM should act like it is running as the host and it does have network access etc. Any reason you can see for not going this route?

That's exactly what I've had to do for the past few years to connect to my company's network using the Cisco VPN client. It works fine with a 32-bit Vista Business guest OS under Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. I would expect it to work as well with VMWare, but I've never tried it.

[Rich.Carpenter]

Also, is it better to install Vista 64 then my Apps or install my Apps on XP then upgrade to Vista 64? I would guess it is better the first way.

Personally, I'd install Vista 64, then your apps. It may work fine either way, but if there is any part of the installation routines of any of your apps that checks the version of Vista installed, you may run into issues if the app later finds itself being run under 64-bit, when it was expecting the 32-bit it was installed on.

[Marin85]

Installing Vista over XP (to preserve already installed programs and data) is not a good idea at all, especially, as Rich.Carpenter pointed out, in the case of Vista x64. There is a high chance that a lot of things don´t work properly afterwards and it´s also bad for the system performance. Since you want to run Vista 1:1 as the Lenovo preloaded image, IMO the best thing you can do is just to get the Lenovo Vista recovery DVDs... Actually, I thought you had already received them since you have purchased your machine with "Windows Vista Business with Windows XP Pro downgrade"

Marin

[jap@tks]

Installing Vista over XP (to preserve already installed programs and data) is not a good idea at all, especially, as Rich.Carpenter pointed out, in the case of Vista x64. There is a high chance that a lot of things don´t work properly afterwards and it´s also bad for the system performance. Since you want to run Vista 1:1 as the Lenovo preloaded image, IMO the best thing you can do is just to get the Lenovo Vista recovery DVDs... Actually, I thought you had already received them since you have purchased your machine with "Windows Vista Business with Windows XP Pro downgrade"

Marin

News! I just finished calling Lenovo for the 7th time (I spent literally all day calling sales and tech support) and they finally acknowledged that I was supposed to receive the Vista 64 Business Recovery DVD with my order. So, they are "supposed" to be sending it to me soon.

Now I plan to wait for that, install it (I have refrained for installing anything on XP) overwriting my entire HD. Then I will install VMware and everything else I have under Vista. Then I will setup a WinXP VM (I am hoping I can use one of my older WinXP install disks/keys) and install anything that seems to need a Win32 OS there (like the VPN client).

I don't know if this will work, but thanks to all the help and guidance I have received here, I think it is a good plan and I expect it to work. It is also an exciting plan and although it is a lot more effort, in the long run I will be in a much better situation.

Thanks again for all your help.

Joseph

[Marin85]

That sounds good! Vista recovery DVDs do their job pretty automagically and straight-forward, so you will have to pay attention only in the beginning to put the required DVDs and in the end to create the user account and enjoy the welcome screen Also, be careful with updating your system. A hint beforehand: don´t use System Update to automatically update your system, rather just to check out whether there are new versions released by Lenovo. Do all Lenovo updates manually and only if needed to solve a problem (read the changelogs)

Good luck

Marin

[jdhurst]

There is a lot of stuff in here and I cannot remember it all to post. However:

1. Please be careful about the comments re: 32-bit and 64-bit / hosts and guests. VMware installs in a 32-bit host, and if a 64-bit OS is supported by VMware, it will run as a guest. Likewise, the newest VMware installs very well in a 64-bit Host, and you can easily run 32-bit guests within.

I run VMware 6.5.1 on my T61p Vista Business 64-bit and I have XP Pro, Windows 2000 and Windows 98 guests. I have some Linux guests on my XP Desktop, but I want to get the newest version of Ubuntu (8.x) and start a new Linux guest.

2. What was the comment about sharing disk space? Guest machines are separate files that can grow up to the set limit when you set up the guest. They cannot grow beyond that (like a hard drive) but you can add another disk set to the original although I have never done that. The guest files do not interact or interfere with each other and the host can use whatever file space the guests are not using.

3. Each machine has its own hardware (CPU, Video, Audio, Networking, USB and so on). Some hardware (USB, CD-ROM, Floppy drives) use the external hardware, and these connections can be enabled or disabled at will. If guest A is using the CD-ROM, then guest B cannot (even though connected) until guest A is finished. It makes sense. Still, there is a superb degree of independence.

4. VPN clients. I had difficulty trying to run VPN clients in an XP guest on my Vista machine. I do understand the critical need to have the VPN client working. I have the same critical need. I heard in this thread that Cisco may have a fix. I think I heard Juniper Netscreen could be used. That said, I purchased a 64-bit SoftRemote client from SafeNet (the OEM vendor for Juniper) and it works great. So your VPN need may be solved.

5. So then down to the machine. I strongly suggest trying Vista 64-bit as your host. I did that. I beat the living daylights out of Vista, put a corkscrew into it and ripped its guts and heart right out. What I have left looks and feels like XP and I am a happy camper with it. The only thing left not running is Cain and Abel which is not yet a 64-bit client. I saw other people here suggest using Vista as the host, and if you can manage it, it will be worth your while.

.... JDH (User of VMware since V1 and used every version including betas up to V6.5.1)

[Marin85]

@JDH:
1. With VMware 6.0.5 I have never been able to run any x64 guest OS on Vista x86 host OS. With the same version of VMware I had no problems running any x64 guest OS (linux, windows) on Vista x64 (host) OS. I guess this was because of the older version of VMware. I have updated it to 6.5.1 since but I haven´t tried out the first combination yet.

2. With VMware 6.5.1. if one installs some guest OS with 30 GB virtual HD, but this guest OS plus any other files on the virtual HD takes only 10 GB of those 30 GB, then windows (host) won´t report 30 GB less free space on the real HD. This was not the case with earlier VMware versions.


Marin

EDIT: Ad (2): I haven´t tried yet to fill up the host OS beyond those 30 GB assigned to the guest OS. This might be something interesting to try though ...

[jdhurst]

Hi Marin,

1. I looked up the Guest Installation guide for V6.5.1 and it says Vista 64-bit will work. If it won't for you, I would enter a case with VMware. I only ever tried a Vista 32-bit guest and now that I have a 64-bit host, I have no reason to have a Vista 64-bit guest. I shall leave this one to other persons.

2. Not true to the best of my knowledge. I have a 10Gb XP machine and the useage is 8Gb. I have a 6Gb W2K machine and the usage is 4Gb. My Windows 98 machine is 1.5Gb and the total is 13.5Gb which is the space reported by the file manager.

Where your free space may be going is shadow storage (which is over and above system restore). Take a look at vssadmin list shadowstorage. It may surprise you. I reduced my pool from 25Gb to 15Gb and I have been a lot happier. Free space reasonably approximates available disk less displayed folders less shadowstorage. Unless I am missing something, it works the same way as earlier VMwares, but this is the first time I have combined VMware with Shadow Storage.

... JDH

[archer6]

<snip> I want to get the newest version of Ubuntu (8.x) and start a new Linux guest.<snip>

Drifting off topic just a bit, I just finished installing a 7200 rpm hard drive in the ultrabay of my new W500. I installed Ubuntu 8.10 on it, the very same version I have on my T60. Oh, what rocket it is... I knew if would be fast, but with the 2.8GHz processor and 4GB ram it's lightning fast. I've been running Ubuntu for the last year and of all the different distros I've used this one's the best. I expect you will be quite delighted.

Cheers...
from the keyboard of my very impressive IdeaPad S10 Netbook.