Can X61 or X61S successfully play h.264 or AVCHD files?

[pgoelz]

To any X61 and/or X61S users who shoot video.... is either machine capable of h.264 or AVCHD playback from files on the hard drive? I'm currently using an X41 and it is definitely not..... not enough horsepower. I'm in the market for a replacement and really want to stay in the Thinkpad X series. I'm thinking the X61S might still not be enough. Not sure about the X61. And then there is the X200.....

Thanks,
Paul

[uux]

Even my old X40 can play h.264 encoded files. Normally, I don't play anything over the resolution of a DVD (480p). It will struggle with high definition (720p or 1080p). AFAIK, the only advantage a X61s has over that is a more powerful CPU. The X200 is supposed to have h.264 hardware decoding built in. That would be a definate advantage if the drivers fully support it.

[pgoelz]

Sorry, I should have been more specific.... I'm wanting to play full HD video from my Canon HF100. Interesting that the X200 has h.264 decoding built in. I hadn't seen any reference to that anywhere. That would be a major factor in its favor. CDW has a couple in the outlet section for $803 (and I think free shipping).

The X200 looks interesting but I am a little worried about the somewhat shorter screen. I'm very happy with my X41 screen but I'm not sure about something shorter. I'm not sure anyone around here stocks them so it is difficult to do a touchy feely and decide.

Edit.... while researching my next laptop I find that many new ones (including a lot of X61s) have 802.11AGN cards. Does that really mean they do NOT do 802.11B? That would be a serious omission for anyone using hot spots, right? Surely many of them have yet to migrate to 802.11G?

Paul

[basketb]

If you are interested in watching HD videos from your high-def camcorder, then you will appreciate the aspect ratio of the X200 (16:10) more than the X61 (4:3).

[uux]

The X200 looks interesting but I am a little worried about the somewhat shorter screen. I'm very happy with my X41 screen but I'm not sure about something shorter. I'm not sure anyone around here stocks them so it is difficult to do a touchy feely and decide.

I recently pulled the trigger on a X61s and my main concern was the screen as well. I also prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio for my main use for it. I haven't tried any h.264 high definition video on it yet. Mine is only 1.6GHz, and I'm honestly not expecting much. The X200 has a different video chipset, the Intel GMA X4500HD, if I'm not mistaken. Searching for that and h.264 decoding might find you some benchmark results or an indication if it really improves anything.

Edit.... while researching my next laptop I find that many new ones (including a lot of X61s) have 802.11AGN cards. Does that really mean they do NOT do 802.11B? That would be a serious omission for anyone using hot spots, right? Surely many of them have yet to migrate to 802.11G?

802.11g is backwards compatible with 802.11b. You shouldn't have any trouble connecting to a 802.11b network.

[pgoelz]

The X200 is definitely at the top of my list but for one thing..... I think I need to actually SEE one to judge if I am comfortable with giving up the difference between the height of the X41 screen vs. the height of the X200. I know that the pixel resolution is actually better. But those pixels are squished into a smaller vertical space. I do far more web surfing and Email reading than I do HD watching, so in the end I am afraid I might be happier with the 4:3 X61 even though the X200 is better in all other ways. Most people find my X41 screen "too small for everyday use". To me it is just right but I would not want it any smaller / shorter.

Paul

[pgoelz]

802.11g is backwards compatible with 802.11b. You shouldn't have any trouble connecting to a 802.11b network.

So there is no real reason that some cards are listed as "abgn" and others are listed as "agn"? Both will connect to a "B" access point? If so, that is a big relief.

Paul

[uux]

[
So there is no real reason that some cards are listed as "abgn" and others are listed as "agn"? Both will connect to a "B" access point? If so, that is a big relief.

Correct.

Here is a review of the X200 playing high definition video. The hardware decoding in the driver appears to only be available in Vista.

I imagine with an X61(s), the faster the CPU, the better the experience you'll have playing the HD video back. I couldn't say for sure what would be the minimal requirements. I'll try some HD video on my X61s when I get the chance and see if it is tolerable. I also have a T61 with a faster processor that should be comparable to a X61.

[Marin85]

Kind of related: the latest releases of K-lite codec pack have optional x64 supplement that utilizes the computational advantages of 64bit OS for decoding (provides the corresponding filters) -> K-lite Codec Pack 64-bit

[Esben]

I tried playing a 720p H.264 file on a 1.66 GHz X60s, with ffdshow. I worked fine. I'm almost certain it's capable of 1080p playback with CoreAVC. If you can wait a week or so, I'll have my own X60s up and running. I'll see how it plays back H.264 of different resolution.

[pgoelz]

I take it that is a dual core in the X60? Interesting. That means the X61s is in the running, since it is about the same speed.

What was the CPU utilization during h.264 playback?

Paul

[Esben]

Yes, it's the Core Duo 1.66 GHz. The X61s Core 2 Duo 1.6 GHz is comparable to a 2 GHz Cure Duo.
The 10-15 seconds, I played the video, I remember task manager showing 70-80 % CPU use. With ffdshow, which is not very optimized, I don't think you'll be able to play 1080p.

[madcow]

I can watch full 1080p videos on my X60.

try Elephant Dream video http://orange.blender.org/download

[gpvillamil]

I am using an X61 Tablet to playback (and edit!) AVCHD files from a Canon HF11. I have the 1.8Ghz Core 2 Duo model.

AVCHD playback works well with the CoreAVC decoder at around 70% CPU. (Unfortunately, it seems somewhat unstable.) The Pixela software that comes with the HF11 plays perfectly on the X61, but at 98% CPU utilization. The ffdshow H.264 decoder is a bit stuttery, and also maxes out the CPU. (However, ffdshow does play regular H.264 files well - just not AVCHD.)

Vegas Video Pro (just) manages to edit AVCHD files, if what you're doing is simple cuts.

[pgoelz]

Wow, thanks for the great information! I had forgotten about the CoreAVC decoder. I'll have to download the trial and see if my X41 can even come close to playing h.264. But it looks like the X61S (wich I think is the one I would prefer) is a possible, if not a definite. I really want to like the X200 but without doing a touchy feeley, I just can't pull the trigger.

Edit.... well, forget about CoreAVC. It thinks I downloaded the trial before. In fact, I did but could never get it to work. Not sure how it knows this.... I am on a different PC using a different Email address (do they track IPs?). But it won't let me download again so I can't try it out. Is it really that much better than ffdshow? And I never tried Pixela (came with the HF100). I hate to pay for a codec since I am sure Microsoft will release one pretty soon and make this all a moot point. Windows 7 already plays AVCHD just fine.

Paul

[artic_squirrel]

u guys i dont get why you're talking about the gpu to decode h264, since all the available hardware acceleration are for nvidia and ati cards.
http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/DXVASupport.html
the main element for the x61 to decode such movies is the cpu,, a c2d is totally good at this

and a protip: use coreavc to watch hd movies, works nice

[pgoelz]

I saw an X61 at the local computer store but they would not let me try playing a file from an SD card I had with me.

One thing I did notice was how unbelievably HOT the thing was. It was sitting on the counter idling, running Vista on AC power. The keys were noticeably hot and the bottom was almost too hot to touch in places, especially the left rear. Is this normal? I did notice that there was little to no air coming out of the vent.... maybe the fan was defective?

Paul

[artic_squirrel]

yeah the left rear is hot bc of the wifi card, and especially if you set it to run at full transmission/speed, but other parts are ok

[pgoelz]

Is it in the left rear? I thought the card was on the right. The air outlet is in the left rear and I wouldn't think there was enough room for a card too. In any event, it was WAY too hot to sit on my lap for more than 30 seconds or so.

Paul

[pgoelz]

Update...... WHOA! I just broke down and bought the CoreAVC Pro codec and installed it. WHOA! I can play AVCHD video from my Canon HF100 smoothly on my 1.5GHz X41. Granted, it is borderline.... the CPU is running at a constant 100%..... but dang, it does work. Amazingly. With ffdshow, the best the X41 could do was about one frame every second or two.

This means I can keep the X41, and it also means if I switch to an X61S it will work just fine.

EDIT.... turns out that while it appears to play smoothly, it is playing slightly behind the audio. I asume this is because my X41 CPU is at 100% and the CoreAVC codec simply slows down a bit instead of dropping frames? It is still WAY better than ffdshow and still seems to indicate the X61S will be more than enough horsepower.

Paul

[artic_squirrel]

Is it in the left rear? I thought the card was on the right. The air outlet is in the left rear and I wouldn't think there was enough room for a card too. In any event, it was WAY too hot to sit on my lap for more than 30 seconds or so.

Paul

ho yeah it's the right rear, you are right.

but the left shouldn't be hot, that's for sure

[Esben]

I've tested the X60s with Windows 7, Media Player Classic and CoreAVC 1.9, and 1080p files play smoothly with a CPU utilization of 55-75%, average is around 63 %.

[awolfe63]

My x61s plays back HD video from my Canon HD camcorder just fine (using Nero). I have the L7700 CPU.

[pgoelz]

Thanks everyone. Looks like any of the X6x series will do me OK for playing 1080i. Now to find one that has 802.11n built in at a reasonable price..... a secondary use is as a TV playback client using GBPVR and 802.11g doesn't always cut it.

Paul

[awolfe63]

You can always get a PCMCIA card or USB for when you are doing TV streaming.

[pgoelz]

Yeah, I thought of that. It might be a solution, but I really like the idea of having it all built in.

I see you can buy the 4965AGN card from an Ebay seller that says it is the genuine IBM part (no BIOS issues) for a reasonable price. I'm not sure about the third antenna though..... can you just use the two existing antennae in the standard X61S and ignore the third connector on the card?

Paul

[awolfe63]

My x61s has that card - so it must work.

[pgoelz]

OK, to wrap up this thread..... I purchased a mint condition X61s from a forum member a couple weeks ago. 1.6GHz/250GB/2GB/Vista Ultimate x64.

And the answer is.... YES. It plays full HiDef h.264 files from my Canon HF100 using both ffdshow and CoreAV codecs without even breaking a sweat. CPU utilization at maybe 50%, give or take. I even loaded Adobe Premiere Elements 7 and did some video editing. CPU utilization hit 100% while rendering, but even then, it backed off gracefully to do other tasks like checking Email when I asked it to. It was slightly slower while rendering, but not by much. At 100% CPU utilizations, the bottom was quite warm and the fan was running fast enough to be heard in a quiet room. but it was not what I would call "hot" by any means.

Turns out that it also plays recorded SD TV (MPEG2) over 802.11g FAR better than my X41 did. I use GBPVR in a client/server setup (the laptop is the client) and the X41 would stutter occasionally unless the machine was oriented just right relative the access point. It would always stutter if another wireless PC accessed the net. Well, the X61s has not stuttered even once in the same location connected to the same access point. Even if it is simultaneously doing an internet speed check or rendering video. Not sure if this is due to a better WiFi card or faster internal processing... or the two cores.

The real surprise, though, is that I actually LIKE Vista. After getting used to the way you access some things and dealing with setting up file sharing (more of a pain than it should be), I find that it is just as fast as XP and more stable. Little things work better, like my USB external speakers. Maybe it is just because the X61s has twice the processing power as the X41 it replaced?

Paul

[Hakim]

Good to hear you're satisfied with your X61s. I just recently bought one as well, and I can say that it's performing admirably. Before I got my Thinkpad though, I was using an Asus EEEPC 1000H for my ultraportable needs. And of course, I had to be able to play 720p files on it

So I've known about CoreAVC for quite a while. If it can play 720p on a 1.6GHz, single-core, in-order processor (Atom N270), then it should work flawlessly on any modern dual-core (L7500 for me).

Even though the X61s can decode HD with ffdshow, I still recommend upgrading to CoreAVC. And someone on the EEE forums even found a free codec pack that included the latest version, so now there's no excuse!

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/codec.htm

[pgoelz]

I bought the CoreAVC codec but I found that although it is faster than ffdshow, it has de-interlacing issues when watching 1080i in a window (as opposed to full screen). This is regardless of the de-interlacing settings. Since ffdshow worked fine and gives me control over other things like sharpening, I use it instead.

I actually came across a small limitation last night though.... when playing 1080i directly from the class 4 SD card it was recorded on, the X61s can't always read the card fast enough for totally smooth playback. I'm not sure if this is a card or reader issue. I seem to recall seeing updated drivers for the card reader?

And now I have another issue.... the last couple nights, the darn thing wakes up from sleep in the middle of the night! Perusing the logs seems to show it is Media Center Update that is the culprit, even though it is NOT set to wake the machine up. I have disabled the task... let's see if that resolves it. And no, none of the hardware (like network and wireless cards) is set to allow them to wake the computer.

Paul