Now closed.

[IvanVasilev16]

Автору топика респект!

[killer]

Welcome to the forum, although it is a requirement to write in English. In other words, nobody really has any idea what you said in your posting.

Perhaps that is our fault but English is the common language of the internet.

[poshgeordie]

Автору топика респект!

@ IvanVasilev16:
Добредојдовте на форумот

Ви благодариме!

And for everyone else the translation is:

From IV16: "Author respect Topic!"

And reply from PG: "Welcome to the forums", and "Thank you!"

Doesn't everyone (except Killer!) speak Macedonian?

[ajkula66]

poshgeordie wrote:

Doesn't everyone (except Killer!) speak Macedonian?

Hmmm...I might be very rusty, but that post (IV 16) says "A lot of respect to the author (of the topic)"...and it doesn't look like Macedonian to me...unless the independence added a couple of new letters to their alphabet...

[poshgeordie]

Looks like Google Translate has let me down again! Think I'll stick to reflowing rather than "retranslating" in future....

[poshgeordie]

Update on our Reflowing Services in UK and Europe

A lot's been happening over the last few months so I thought I'd bring you up to date on what we've been up to.

The last year has seen orders increasing month on month with quote requests as far as Singapore and Australia! We wish we could help you guys but with carriage costs one way in excess of £50 it's just not viable.
For our US customers we are working on supplying boards to you at a reasonable cost. It's not easy but hopefully we can get a deal together in the near future.

May and June have been very busy with a move into a large Workshop and Office unit within the same Business Centre.

We've been needing a more powerful Infrared Reflowing Station and recently purchased one from the German-based company Ersa.

A long term project has been to develop a Closed Loop Infrared Oven system, for use in the reballing process to solder the new BGA solder ball sets onto the chip.
One of the most difficult things was finding the right sort of oven, and over the months we tried a variety of different household and commercial units. These had differing results including actually managing to ignite a chip - very smokey!
The oven we're using now is connected via a Thermocouple and Interface circuit to a PC, and can be programed to give precise preheat, soak, and reflow temperature profiles for many different makes of chip.
It's also great for reheating pizzas!

We've also developed a macro camera system which allows us to watch the solder balls in real time as they are heated and then melt.
The big advantage of this system is that the solder balls are not over heated which can cause damage to the chip and solder.
Until we had the camera we didn't realise how much a reballed chip moves on the motherboard, as the balls find their correct positions.
We will be publishing some YouTube videos shortly and will post links when they are up.

I can honestly say that I've never had a job with so many challenges.
For instance during the Reballing Oven development a few months ago, I'd been in the office for 10 hours straight on a Saturday and had burnt out 5 chips and managed to sort of reball 1! My thought that day was "If it was easy everyone would be doing it!"

Finally a big thank you to everyone who we've worked with since the beginning, and for all the kind words and encouragement you've given us.

[mrbojangles]

just out of curiosity, why do the T4`s need the chips reballing, in other words why do the chips come away so much, is it heat, or just poorly made in first place

[poshgeordie]

just out of curiosity, why do the T4`s need the chips reballing, in other words why do the chips come away so much, is it heat, or just poorly made in first place

It's a big subject but I'll try and keep it brief.

Background

The graphics and Southbridge (SB) chips are just over 1" square and are soldered to the motherboard with hundreds of tiny solder balls (the ATI 7500 chip has 692 I believe!), each 0.6mm diameter. The solder ball set is known as the Ball Grid Array or BGA.

Early T4x Thinkpads used solder balls made of leaded solder. From July 2006 all manufacturers had to switch to lead-free solder balls to comply with ROHSS ( ) requirements.
These can be identified to a certain extent by the motherboard FRU's and descriptions - see this page on the Board Room site and for instance T43 series boards in particular are classified as leaded and lead free.

The Main Reasons for BGA Failure

1. Flexing

The Graphics and SB chips are located towards the front of the motherboard. When users pick the laptop up by the front edge or one corner or by the open lid, the weight at the back of the laptop from the screen and battery flexes the motherboard causing the GPU and SB chip BGA to be strained to the point where some of the balls become detached.

2. Hot and Cold Temperature Cycling

As the laptop is used over the years the GPU and SB BGA's are subjected to quite large changes in temperature from being cold when switched off to becoming very warm when in use.
This is particularly relevant for any solder joint made with lead-free solder since it's been found that subjecting lead-free solder to this kind of temperature change causes the individual metallic components of the solder to separate out. This in turn results in oxidisation around the ball which will destroy the solder bond onto the motherboard and cause an open circuit.


Solving the Problem

1. Flexing

Always carrying the laptop correctly by the sides will very greatly reduce this problem.

If there has been a failure with leaded solder BGA's, it is possible to heat up the chip to melt the solder balls and they can make good reliable joints again.
But this does still rely on the overall BGA being in good condition and I believe that individual solder balls can become loose, and reheating will not somehow get them to migrate back to their right positions.

2. Hot and Cold Temperature Cycling...and lead-free solder balls

Some users never turn their laptops off and put them into hibernation, thus reducing the temperature cycling change.

Many repair companies try to resolder the BGA by simply reheating the chip to re-melt the balls. This is usually ineffective with lead-free balls because once the solder mix has broken down it will not recombine properly to create a new sound joint. In fact at best it will often create a touch only connection which will quickly fail.

Also when trying to resolder lead-free balls, when the solder melts it mustn't exceed a temperature margin of 3 - 5 deg C beyond the melting point, or else again the solder mix will separate and again a bad joint is made.
This is a very complex subject of which I'm only giving a brief overview.

So the very best solution is to reball a failed chip. By doing this the state of the existing solder balls is unimportant, and if very high quality solder balls are used and the melting temperatures very carefully monitored at all stages of the reballing and reflowing processes, then it's virtually guaranteed that the resulting solder joints will be 100% sound for many years to come.

To complete the picture, there are other issues with any laptop (Thinkpad T61 series) using an Nvidia GPU and this article gives the whole sorry story and more information etc.

[crashnburn]

Some users never turn their laptops off and put them into hibernation, thus reducing the temperature cycling change.

I believe HIBERNATE is the hardware/ electrical equivalent of POWERING DOWN the system by Pushing the entire OS/Apps & stuff in memory on to Disk.

On the other hand, SUSPEND would involved a LOW POWER state (Electricals in the system are still powered on.. in a lesser state).

[cacophony]

Nick, can you take a look at my thread and let me know if you think the issue is correctly diagnosed?

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93492

Thanks!

[poshgeordie]

Hi - I've replied directly in the thread - agree with RBS.

HTH!

Nick

[MTyn]

Bump for Nick

My resoldered T40P is still going strong!!

[poshgeordie]

Bump for Nick

My resoldered T40P is still going strong!!

Many thanks for that - really appreciated!

[YW-Slayer]

Hi, I'm based in Hong Kong and my T42's GPU now appears to have caught up with it. What can I do? I don't mind shipping to the UK or the US.

[poshgeordie]

Hi, I'm based in Hong Kong and my T42's GPU now appears to have caught up with it. What can I do? I don't mind shipping to the UK or the US.

Hi

I'm really sorry about that. Unfortunately the carriage costs to and from UK are much too high to make it cost effective to send your laptop / board to us.

Also The Board Room is for North American Forum members and again carriage costs from US would be much too high.

I would have thought there must be a company in Hong Kong who does this work. I also think there's a company in Malaysia but it was years ago and I've no idea about who they are etc.

[YW-Slayer]

Thanks. I'll check in HK. If not, can I use a friend in the UK to handle p&p on your end (obviously I'd be responsible for getting it to and from him in the UK)?

[poshgeordie]

can I use a friend in the UK to handle p&p on your end (obviously I'd be responsible for getting it to and from him in the UK)?

I think that's an excellent idea. If you'd like an "official" quote which includes our address details etc, could you send me an email to nick@reflowrepairs.com and I'll send one to you.
Also your best option may be the stripped down repair where you send the motherboard mounted in the base - full instructions in the quote.

[asuka]

UK-based Reflow Repairs is established as one of the leading chip reflowing and reballing facilities in UK & Europe with many satisfied customers.

IBM ThinkpadsT4x, R5x and T6x ranges, as well as many other laptop makes, suffer from the solder Ball Grid Array (BGA), under the chips becoming unsoldered from the motherboard.

This affects the Graphics (GPU) and Southbridge (SB) chips.

Typical Symptoms:

GRAPHICS CHIPS (GPU's)

The Display:

• * Is blank from switch on, but everything else appears to work
  * Goes blank when you move it
  * Freezes
  * Picture broken up / pixelated
  * Works only when pressing down on the GPU
  * Blue Screen (BSOD) with message including "missing ati.exe driver" (or similar)
  * Bright white background but no picture - ext video output may be pixelated

[/size]

SOUTHBRIDGE CHIPS (SB)

The Laptop:

• * 2.0 USB port only works at slower 1.1 speed
  * The Hard Disc runs / loads programs ONLY when you press on the laptop
  * Audio makes a crackling sound or no sound
  * Keyboard keys don't work
  * Appears to freeze when pressing the F keys to access BIOS or Boot Selection screens (relevant messages are displayed)
  * Dead laptop (NOTE can be many other reasons)

[/size]


RESOLDERING THE CHIPS BACK ONTO THE MOTHERBOARD

This process uses specialist Infrared Reballing and Reflowing Equipment, as follows:

• * The chip is unsoldered from the motherboard
  * The old solder balls are cleaned from the chip and motherboard
  * The chip is reballed - ie the new solder ball set is positioned on the chip, and then reflowed (soldered) in place.
  * The reconditioned chip is reflowed back onto the motherboard - this YouTube video shows a chip we've reburbished being reflowed onto the motherboard

[/size]

Any questions or to book a repair: Contact us on nick@reflowrepairs.com or via PM. Please include your email details


PRICES

All Prices include return UK carriage by courier, and all makes and types of chips

Complete Laptops

• To repair the GPU or Southbridge chip: from £69.95
  
  To repair both chips on same unit (if needed): from £94.95

Laptop Stripped to the Base

• To repair the GPU or Southbridge chip: from £54.95
  
  To repair both chips on same unit (if needed): from £79.95

All our work is covered by our 90 day warranty.

Any questions or to book a repair: Contact us on nick@reflowrepairs.com or via PM. Please include your email details

Customers outside UK

Europe: add from £13.50 extra carriage depending on where you come from - contact us with your country's details

North America:: Visit The Board Room Our USA-Based Depot for Reconditioned Boards

Rest of the World: Contact us with your country's details.

OTHER SERVICES

Thinkpad repairs including:

• Blown Fuse Replacement
  T30 memory slot resoldering
  T2x dead or pulsing fan - resoldering the inductors

Other Laptop Makes:

• Chip repairs on all laptop makes, including:
  
  • HP (Compaq, Pavilion, DV, TX, NX etc series specialists)
    Sony
    Apple (iBook, MacBook, MacBookPro specialists)
    Samsung
    Dell
    etc etc

• All other Repairs including:
  
  • DC Connector Replacement
    Screen Replacement
    CCFL Screen Backlight Tube replacement
    General laptop repairs
    New Replacment Batteries for all laptop makes - our Batteries contain only high quality cells and come with 13 month manufacturer warranty

[/b][/size]

Any questions or to book a repair: Contact us on nick@reflowrepairs.com or via PM. Please include your email details

ABOUT US

Reflow Repairs are based in Newcastle upon Tyne in north east England in UK.

With more than 20 years of design, research, and building experience in Electronics and IT, we take a more engineering-based approach to our work. This means that we lead rather than follow in the Infrared reflowing and reballing fields.

Added to that we believe in providing the very best customer service at all stages in the repair "journey". Read some of our customers testimonies further on in the thread.

EQUIPMENT

We only use the very best equipment for our reflow and reball work.
Also, because what we wanted either didn't exist or was of too poor quality, we've used our in-house expertise to design and build some our equipment.

Our equipment includes:

• * Ersa Infrared Reflowing Station
  * In-house designed PC Controlled Closed Loop Infrared Oven system, used during the chip reballing process
  * In-house designed Macro Camera System, which allows us to observe the tiny 0.5mm dia BGA solder balls melting in real time during the reflow process - this YouTube video shows an ATI 7500 chip swe've just reballed being reflowed onto the motherboard

[/size]

Any questions or to book a repair: Contact us on nick@reflowrepairs.com or via PM. Please include your email details

EDIT> 05-12-10 Updated content.

What a great service. My laptop literally feels like it's brand new. Thanks for the quick repair. Would definitely recommend to anyone looking to have their lappys repaired!

[poshgeordie]

Hi Asuka and welcome to the forums.

It was great meeting you your comments are very much appreciated.

I hope you find some time (and snow!) to snowboard whilst you're in the UK.

Take care and kind regards

Nick

[poshgeordie]

Sale Time again - 10% off during March!

Make the most of it! Remember all chips are reballed not just reflowed.

[poshgeordie]

I've had to close the reflowing business down here.

Bottom line - I've been unable to fulfill people's expectations and with continuing health issues, I feel I cannot go on any more.

I've met some good friends over the years and your encouragement has helped me to keep going.

I've no idea what I'll do with the equipment but I guess if anyone wants to buy it, to get in touch.

With kind regards

Nick

[Harryc]

Sorry to see this happen Nick, but there is nothing more important than good health, so best of luck there.

[RealBlackStuff]

I'm also sorry to see this option for TPF members go.
Thanks Nick for all the hard work you did. And get well soon!

To anyone who still has ongoing business with The Board Room,
we will try and find satisfactory solutions to the best of our abilities.
A small number of boards have been repaired and will be available in the near future,
but under modified conditions that will be announced shortly on the website.
www.theboardroom.info will remain open until further notice.
After that, who knows?

[crashnburn]

I'm also sorry to see this option for TPF members go.
Thanks Nick for all the hard work you did. And get well soon!

To anyone who still has ongoing business with The Board Room,
we will try and find satisfactory solutions to the best of our abilities.
A small number of boards have been repaired and will be available in the near future,
but under modified conditions that will be announced shortly on the website.
http://www.theboardroom.info will remain open until further notice.
After that, who knows?

So sorry to hear that. I hope someone can take this on and start off some time again. Maybe you guys can put together a little 'How to' or something that could inspire / guide some other budding fellows to take it up.

[poshgeordie]

Many thanks indeed for the PM's and support from you all at this difficult time. It's really makes all the difference.

With support from my wife and friends I've been encouraged to keep Reflow Repairs going, and I feel it's the right decision as well. The way I work will change and we're working out strategies as needed.

For more information on contacting me if you have an unsoldered chip problem please go here.

[Elwyn]

I can highly recommend this service to your laptop.

I had a pair of 'unwell' motherboards, one was in a laptop already that also had a new screen attached while fault finding.

I also sent off another laptop, a small 10" netbook thingy with a broken screen and they were fixed and returned to me after about a fortnight. He even put it together from the not quite put together laptop and bag of screws I sent up The only delay was me actually answering my emails!

The T41 that has been returning is great, and has been returned to a friend of mine. I've got a T42 and T20, and my sister has just got a T42 as well so I can see that over the next couple years more will be sent up to Newcastle

Very pleased with the whole setup Heartily recommend it to anyone with these problems on your laptops Thank you very much Nick

[poshgeordie]

Hi Elwyn

Many thanks for your kind words which are very encouraging and make my work worthwhile.

I sincerely hope I'll never see the Thinkpad I've repaired ever again - the gpu and Southridge chips were reballed - but I'll be very happy to keep the "family" machines running for the next few years!

The Acer Netbook was quite a fun job actually having never seen one before nor the Atom Operating System with an SSD drive before. It's a fast little machine!

[Elwyn]

No Nick, you probably won't see that machine again but you may see mine, my sisters' T42 and others that come my way needing to be repaired as is with this thread

Cheers, Elwyn