Buying Soon. Dell 600m vs IBM Thinkpad T42 (Price worthy?)

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mjbauer · #1 Post by **mjbauer** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:38 am

With this deal I must decide...

Dell 600M
-Pentium M 1.60GHz/400 MHz FSB
-14.1" SXGA+ TFT
-DDR ATI RADEON 9000 - 64 MB
-512 MB RAM (1 DIMM)
-60 GB Harddrive
-DVD/CDRW Combo
-Intel PRO Wireless 2200
-Watered down 1 year warranty
$1170 Shipped (w/ Tax)

...
+139.64 for inclusive 2 year warranty
...

vs

IBM Thinkpad T42
-Pentium M 1.7 GHz
-15" SXGA+ TFT
-ATI RADEON 9600 - 64 MB
-512 MB RAM (1 DIMM)
-60 GB 7200 rpm
-DVD/CDRW Combo
-Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Card
-Bluetooth
-3 year warranty
$1956. Shipped (w/ Tax)

I have very limited experience w/ Dell notebooks (used to use a D600 at work). I have never used or seen a thinkpad upclose. I realize I am making this purchase to use a notebook for the next 4 years, however this is quite a large price gap. I know most of you use IBM T-series notebooks so I figured I would ask if you felt the build quality (etc) could justify the near $800 price difference. In all honesty, I'm not looking to start flames/controversy but am curious if even an IBM user would say 'at that price I would go with the Dell'.

Thanks
-Matt

#2 Post by **K. Eng** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:50 am

The $800 price difference is a lot, but the systems you are comparing are pretty different.

The Dell has a Radeon 9000 graphics card, which is vastly inferior to the Radeon 9600 in the IBM. The IBM 15" SXGA+ is a flexview display, which has a superior viewing angle to the Dell's panel (although the Dell panels are very very good IMO). The ThinkPad also has a faster CPU and bluetooth.

I would say that this would amount to at least $400 difference in options in favor of the IBM.

If you don't need all the fancy stuff, I'd go for a less expensive model.

syhead · #3 Post by **syhead** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:54 am

2378-FVU has superior specs (compared to this Dell) and costs around $1,500..that's the best deal

mjbauer · #4 Post by **mjbauer** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:02 pm

K. Eng wrote:The $800 price difference is a lot, but the systems you are comparing are pretty different.

The Dell has a Radeon 9000 graphics card, which is vastly inferior to the Radeon 9600 in the IBM. The IBM 15" SXGA+ is a flexview display, which has a superior viewing angle to the Dell's panel (although the Dell panels are very very good IMO). The ThinkPad also has a faster CPU and bluetooth.

I would say that this would amount to at least $400 difference in options in favor of the IBM.

If you don't need all the fancy stuff, I'd go for a less expensive model.

Ah thanks! I'm really not familiar w/ the various Radeon cards. I will look into that right now.

mjbauer · #5 Post by **mjbauer** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:07 pm

syhead wrote:2378-FVU has superior specs (compared to this Dell) and costs around $1,500..that's the best deal

$1606.54 shipped/taxed Base Config: 256 MB RAM, 40 GB 5400rpm HD. Both lacking to the Dell.

Comparing to DELL: adding 512 MB (Still just 40 GB 5400)- Total Price $1690 shipped and taxed.

Comparing to IBM 2379DXU: $1690 (14.1, 1 year warranty, 40 GB 5400 rpm) vs. $1956 (15", 3 year, 60 GB 7200 rpm)

atlacatl · #6 Post by **atlacatl** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:11 pm

A few (Including myself) think the new Dells are not so good for heavy use: http://www.josesandoval.com/hotdells/index.asp.

I would choose a TthinkPad over any Dell - The extra bit of cash goes into the quality, I think...Well worth it...

My personal opinion...

cj3209 · #7 Post by **cj3209** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:14 pm

The T42 is much more robust and will last years longer than the Dell.

The price difference is also much smaller if you compare similar systems and similar warranties. Keep in mind that IBM's warranty is based in Atlanta, GA so you will always get a US-tech whereas with DELL, it usually goes to India or some other foreign country (not that that's necessarily bad).

The only reason to get the 600m is for the low price and price only. If you must get a DELL, I would look into the D600 as it seems to be a bit sturdier but still not as sturdy as the T42.

This is from experience using all three of the above mentioned notebooks: T42, 600m, and D600.

Good luck!

#8 Post by **daeojkim** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:28 pm

Once you try TP keyboard you never go back...

But yes $800 is a lot..

You should think about what you need it for and make the right decision. I think it is a waste of money when you purchase computers just way over the pecs that you really need.

atlacatl · #9 Post by **atlacatl** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:52 pm

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, 1943

"640K [of memory] ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates (1981)

On a serious note, more is better here - If you are looking to use the computer for more than 2 years, I'd go for the ThinkPad, even if it's overspec at the time - I'm sure you'll find enough programs to put in that baby that will tax it to the limit...Or, M$ will find a way to make you want to more horse power...

lvlolvlo · #10 Post by **lvlolvlo** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:16 pm

Yo dude!! Bro man! Trust me! GO WITH THE IBM!!!

I have my personal Thinkpad T40p which I bought about 2yrs ago..(wow didn't realize it's been that long) and my work just handed out Dell 600m's.

IBM: P4 M 1.6
768MB RAM
60GB HD
14.1 SXGA screen blah blah blah...

Dell: P4 M 2.0
1GB RAM
60GB HD
14.1 SXGA screen blah blah blah...

So what does it come down to....believe it or not my thinkpad starts up in HALF the time. Seriously the only thing I use my company's 600m is for playing Half Life and checkin work mail. That's it! lol.

treker · #11 Post by **treker** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:04 pm

I bought a 600M a few weeks ago. I like the laptop very much. It is fast. Thin and Light. 1.6mhzCentrino/SXGA/9000Video32mb/512mb/30gb/CDRW/DVD/2200BG. The keyboard and overall "quality and feel" are not up to the T42. But it was alot cheaper than equivalent T42.

In the end I bought a new T42 and am going to sell the 600M on Ebay shortly.

tfan · #12 Post by **tfan** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:05 pm

I was in a similar delima while purchasing a laptop a couple of months back. I got a T42- 2373k5u for $1556. Spec,

1.7 GHz Pentium M
512 Megs RAM single DIM
40gb 5600rpm drive
Fingerprint authentication
14.1 SXGA+
Intel 802.11bg
3 yr Warranty.

I have had Dells before, and my housemate has a Dell 600m. Both of us could see the difference in the build quality between the 600m and T42 immdiatley. The T42 has so many silent features that is probably not advertised that the difference in $300 makes it totally worthwhile when compared to a Dell.

raabjerg · #13 Post by **raabjerg** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:51 pm

Once, a happy Dell user (Inspiron 7000)

Then, a not so happy Dell user (D600)

Now, a happy IBM user (T42)

Point being, specs of the various laptop brands change over time, but in my opinion, the IBM's are the best laptops on the market right now.

However, you do pay a significant premium for it. In the end, it remains a tradeoff...

mjbauer · #14 Post by **mjbauer** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:36 pm

tfan wrote:I was in a similar delima while purchasing a laptop a couple of months back. I got a T42- 2373k5u for $1556. Spec,

1.7 GHz Pentium M
512 Megs RAM single DIM
40gb 5600rpm drive
Fingerprint authentication
14.1 SXGA+
Intel 802.11bg
3 yr Warranty.

I have had Dells before, and my housemate has a Dell 600m. Both of us could see the difference in the build quality between the 600m and T42 immdiatley. The T42 has so many silent features that is probably not advertised that the difference in $300 makes it totally worthwhile when compared to a Dell.

Where did you find it at that price?

#15 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:05 pm

I side with most of the people here - go with the IBM ThinkPad. It has long been recognized as top of class, and in my personal experience, 100 percent of the small number of acquaintances of mine who purchased Dell against my advice have regretted their decision and gone back to IBM.
... JD Hurst

tfan · #16 Post by **tfan** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:37 pm

[quote="mjbauer"][quote="tfan"]I was in a similar delima while purchasing a laptop a couple of months back. I got a T42- 2373k5u for $1556. Spec,

1.7 GHz Pentium M
512 Megs RAM single DIM
40gb 5600rpm drive
Fingerprint authentication
14.1 SXGA+
Intel 802.11bg
3 yr Warranty.

I have had Dells before, and my housemate has a Dell 600m. Both of us could see the difference in the build quality between the 600m and T42 immdiatley. The T42 has so many silent features that is probably not advertised that the difference in $300 makes it totally worthwhile when compared to a Dell.[/quote]

Where did you find it at that price?[/quote]

I bought it from IBM direct through the EPP program. This particular model wasn't listed on the EPP website. The customer representative told me about this. I got this shipped to a friend in Oregon and saved $140 in taxes, bringing the total to $1556.

w0qj · #17 Post by **w0qj** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:50 pm

> 1.7 GHz Pentium M
> 512 Megs RAM single DIM
> 40gb 5600rpm drive
> Fingerprint authentication
> 14.1 SXGA+
> Intel 802.11bg
> 3 yr Warranty.

when your budget allows for upgrade later, you can consider to:

a) add RAM (upgrade to total of 768 to 1024 MB RAM)

b) upgrade to 60 MB 7200 RPM Hitachi Travelstar 7K60 hard drive (your "40" GB hard drive will fill quickly, especially with MP3's. IBM's Rescue & Recovery will eat 5-10 GB of your hard drive).

that's what i have done; i had the exact same computer spec as above.
very good bang for the buck!

#18 Post by **aamsel** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:06 pm

I am not going to enter into this as a "Dell basher", but...
I used to buy Dell notebooks, and, years ago the Latitude was quite a nice notebook.
I don't think that Dell is making ANY high quality notebooks at the present time. I work for an entity that buys nothing but Dell notebooks, desktops and servers, and I have seen the quality come and go. The last few Dell notebooks I have seen were horrible quality, mushy keyboards, cheap enclosures, bad LCD screens.
I don't think that there is ANY comparison between the quality of Dell notebooks and Thinkpads at the present time.
If the Lenovo deal is finalized, Thinkpad quality made stay the same, get even better, or become trash...who knows??
However, today's Thinkpads are pure IBM designs, and they literally blow Dell notebooks away.
Just my humble opinion.
Also...NOTHING whatsoever against Dell. As I said, I have seen them with decent product, and would like to see them get back to decent product.

Andrew
Austin, TX

furball4 · #19 Post by **furball4** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:24 am

I agree that Dell used to make some really nice machines. My first laptop was a Latitude XPi, 10.4" display, Pentium 120MHz, etc... Yikes. Anyway, it was a great machine with a very nice keyboard and an honest-to-goodness trackball!

Two years ago I was in the market for a laptop, and after using IBM's for a while I decided to go for a Dell because of the price difference. I got a Latitude 1450 something-or-other, and there wasn't a major fault with it. But there sure were a bunch of minor ones, like trackpoint buttons that you practically had to stand on to press down, running very hot, heftier weight, etc.

After a couple of months I sold it on eBay and bought a T20, upgraded it a bit, and am typing on it right now... this time I'm not making the same mistake! T42 here I come... speaking of which, check out this thread (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=7408) and my post on how to eek the best deal out of the 2378FVU.

#20 Post by **aamsel** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:16 am

Thanks!
I didn't know about the "bluetooth ready" feature of the 2378FVU.

Andrew
Austin, TX

furball4 wrote:I agree that Dell used to make some really nice machines. My first laptop was a Latitude XPi, 10.4" display, Pentium 120MHz, etc... Yikes. Anyway, it was a great machine with a very nice keyboard and an honest-to-goodness trackball!

Two years ago I was in the market for a laptop, and after using IBM's for a while I decided to go for a Dell because of the price difference. I got a Latitude 1450 something-or-other, and there wasn't a major fault with it. But there sure were a bunch of minor ones, like trackpoint buttons that you practically had to stand on to press down, running very hot, heftier weight, etc.

After a couple of months I sold it on eBay and bought a T20, upgraded it a bit, and am typing on it right now... this time I'm not making the same mistake! T42 here I come... speaking of which, check out this thread (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=7408) and my post on how to eek the best deal out of the 2378FVU.

raabjerg · #21 Post by **raabjerg** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:27 am

Also...NOTHING whatsoever against Dell. As I said, I have seen them with decent product, and would like to see them get back to decent product.

Me too. I kind of like their whole business model idea, so I hope they will return with something of better quality in the future...

etherealtml · #22 Post by **etherealtml** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:11 am

furball4 wrote:I agree that Dell used to make some really nice machines....

I remember when Gateway used to make some really nice machines too. We all know what happened when they went mainstream....

Anyway back to the topic: You really have to hold the Thinkpad in your hands to understand the incredible build quality, which essentially accounts for the price difference. The alloy case, metal hinge covers, the keyboard light, the CPU exhaust is on the side (not on the bottom!!!), etc. You know, its like they say, it's the little things that matter.

mjbauer · #23 Post by **mjbauer** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:05 am

etherealtml wrote:
furball4 wrote:I agree that Dell used to make some really nice machines....
I remember when Gateway used to make some really nice machines too. We all know what happened when they went mainstream....

Anyway back to the topic: You really have to hold the Thinkpad in your hands to understand the incredible build quality, which essentially accounts for the price difference. The alloy case, metal hinge covers, the keyboard light, the CPU exhaust is on the side (not on the bottom!!!), etc. You know, its like they say, it's the little things that matter.

Aside from another owner's, is there anywhere I can go to see this laptop in person?

rocketman · #24 Post by **rocketman** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:30 am

Aside from another owner's, is there anywhere I can go to see this laptop in person?

Probably not, it depends where you're located. Even here in NYC there's only one or two retailers that carry a limited selection of Thinkpads. I guess thats why IBM has their 30 day return policy.

JHEM · #25 Post by **JHEM** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:11 am

rocketman wrote:
mjbauer wrote: Aside from another owner's, is there anywhere I can go to see this laptop in person?
Probably not, it depends where you're located. Even here in NYC there's only one or two retailers that carry a limited selection of Thinkpads. I guess thats why IBM has their 30 day return policy.

This conversation is EXACTLY the reason that I ask that everyone please, PLEASE update their profiles with their location!

If Herr Bauer were in NYC, we could give him several places he could go to see a (limited) selection of Thinkpads. Instead, we're left having to guess what would be the best answer to his question.

Regards,

James

mjbauer · #26 Post by **mjbauer** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:17 am

JHEM wrote:
rocketman wrote: Probably not, it depends where you're located. Even here in NYC there's only one or two retailers that carry a limited selection of Thinkpads. I guess thats why IBM has their 30 day return policy.
This conversation is EXACTLY the reason that I ask that everyone please, PLEASE update their profiles with their location!

If Herr Bauer were in NYC, we could give him several places he could go to see a (limited) selection of Thinkpads. Instead, we're left having to guess what would be the best answer to his question.

Regards,

James

Es tut mir Leid. I am in lovely Houston, TX.

dfumento · #27 Post by **dfumento** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:34 am

Thinkpads in NYC at RCS Computer (56th & Madison)

Open 9-8 7/days a week.

Also, if you pull the 40GB HD for the 60GB can you sell it on e-bay?
Will it have a warranty?

BTW you can check prices also at www.pricewatch.com, just be certain that you are getting 3 year warranty.

You can also upgrade 2378FVU to a full 1GB by replacing the 256MB DIIMM under the keyboard.

When you order the unit you can ask that IBM put in Bluetooth at the time of order.

furball4 · #28 Post by **furball4** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:44 pm

The 40GB drive by itself should still be warrantied by Hitachi. I'm guessing it only has a one-year, though. Most OEM drives do. But you could sell it even if it had no warranty... most laptop hard drives on eBay are used and out of warranty anyway.

brewt · #29 Post by **brewt** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:03 pm

dfumento wrote:Also, if you pull the 40GB HD for the 60GB can you sell it on e-bay?
Will it have a warranty?

Parts that come with a notebook are OEM and are usually only covered under warranty with the original machine itself. So, whoever buys the hard drive from you won't be able to get it repaired/replaced from the manufacturer, and they can't really go to IBM.

furball4 · #30 Post by **furball4** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:52 pm

I asked Hitachi, and you are correct. Here was their response:

Thank you for contacting Hitachi Global Storage Technologies.

If the drive was removed from an IBM system, the drive would be an OEM drive, and it would not have a warranty thru Hitachi. When OEM’s purchase drives, they purchased all warranty rights, and there is no pass through warranty. For any warranty options on this drive, you will need to return to your system manufacturer. A full explanation of our warranty policy can be found at the following link:

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/w ... nglish.htm

If the drive came out of an IBM system, it may have a FRU number on it. Drives with FRU (Field Replaceable Unit) Numbers are warranted through Options by IBM. Please contact IBM at 800.426.7378, with your FRU#. They will be able to assist you further with these drives.

Interesting notion about still receiving coverage directly from IBM, however. I'm not going to follow up on it, but if anyone does please let us know the result. Great response time and relevance by Hitachi! I only asked them via their web form about an hour ago.

Buying Soon. Dell 600m vs IBM Thinkpad T42 (Price worthy?)

Buying Soon. Dell 600m vs IBM Thinkpad T42 (Price worthy?)

Desing flaw of Dell machines?

I agree...

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