X200s high pitched/high frequency noise

[ComputerMinder]

In a quite enviroment I notice that my X200s produces a high pitched noise. If I put my ear next to the keyboard I notice it's coming from the upper left region near the fan. The noise isn't always on.

Also it has nothing to do with the HD or CD activity.

It's an oascillator kind of noise ithat is high frequently.

I also have X61s and X301 neither of produces this high pitched sound.

X200s or X200 owners can you please check if your produces the same noise and let me know iyour configuration?
I'm rather annonyed by that sound.

[rkawakami]

High-pitched sounds coming from electronics typically are from wire-wound coils; generally in the form of transformers, chokes or inductors. Usual technique to dampen the noise is by applying a special varnish to the windings, if they are accessible. In the case of a laptop computer, it could be coming from the inverter (try lowering the brightness of the display and see if the pitch changes) or an inductor on the motherboard (sound would probably change in relation to the amount of power that the system is consuming).

[ComputerMinder]

High-pitched sounds coming from electronics typically are from wire-wound coils; generally in the form of transformers, chokes or inductors. Usual technique to dampen the noise is by applying a special varnish to the windings, if they are accessible. In the case of a laptop computer, it could be coming from the inverter (try lowering the brightness of the display and see if the pitch changes) or an inductor on the motherboard (sound would probably change in relation to the amount of power that the system is consuming).

Thanks it's not related to screen brightness so I assume it's not the inverter. I'm interested to know if other experience the same problem. In an ultra quite environment I can even hear the noise form 1-2 meters (3-6 feet) away from the computer.

[AvalonXIII]

It may just be the all-too-familiar Intel Core 2 Duo processor's whine. Once in a while you get a notebook that has this unpleasant problem. It's all a matter of luck when you buy a laptop, since it's not technically something that will harm the functionality of the laptop.

[Marin85]

It may just be the all-too-familiar Intel Core 2 Duo processor's whine. Once in a while you get a notebook that has this unpleasant problem. It's all a matter of luck when you buy a laptop, since it's not technically something that will harm the functionality of the laptop.

It´s a myth that this whining comes from the C2D cpus. I would suggest you referring to this post by jimmy274, which is basically the same as what rkawakami has already pointed out.

[ComputerMinder]

Thanks Marin, I will check that thread. As I mentioned have X61s, X301 and X200s and only the X200s makes this noise connected to the AC. I will check that thread

[elvair]

I have the same thing on my x301

:/ for this kind of price I expect nothing but perfection

[elvair]

The noise is still on even if not connected to AC, if I had normal HDD, then it would exaplin it all, but I have SDD, so it should not be making any noise whatsoever, apart from fan.

When I get to use my x301 more and more, I have a very bad feeling that im not impressed with quality at all (
I have a feeling that while thinkpad was still owned by IMB , there were a lot of "technological spillovers", whereby IBM had a very strong know-how in terms of designing high level industrial solutions and they transfered that knowledge to their notebook production line. Then when Lenovo came into ownership they still benefit from that know-how (for example the quality of keyboard), but the quality of machines if deteriorating rapidly

Even though say like keyboard, the build is very impressive, but one key on my keyboard , namelly right arrow is making strange clicking noise when Im pressing it. Common I expect more than thay from a 3,500$ machine.

I've read statistics somewhere that on average 25% of all notebooks irrespectivelly of brand are faulty in one way or the other and return to manufactureres either on warranty repair or permanently, but comon this kind of notebook should have some serious quality control policies. Some internal electronics problems may potentially be understandable, but a clicking key ? Comon ...

[ComputerMinder]

The noise is still on even if not connected to AC, if I had normal HDD, then it would exaplin it all, but I have SDD, so it should not be making any noise whatsoever, apart from fan.

When I get to use my x301 more and more, I have a very bad feeling that im not impressed with quality at all (
I have a feeling that while thinkpad was still owned by IMB , there were a lot of "technological spillovers", whereby IBM had a very strong know-how in terms of designing high level industrial solutions and they transfered that knowledge to their notebook production line. Then when Lenovo came into ownership they still benefit from that know-how (for example the quality of keyboard), but the quality of machines if deteriorating rapidly

Even though say like keyboard, the build is very impressive, but one key on my keyboard , namelly right arrow is making strange clicking noise when Im pressing it. Common I expect more than thay from a 3,500$ machine.

I've read statistics somewhere that on average 25% of all notebooks irrespectivelly of brand are faulty in one way or the other and return to manufactureres either on warranty repair or permanently, but comon this kind of notebook should have some serious quality control policies. Some internal electronics problems may potentially be understandable, but a clicking key ? Comon ...

I hear you. Both me with my X200s and my wife with her X301 are not that impressed. In fact she says the space bar has a unpleasant feeling to it. I also found out typing on the X301 that on the left upper side of the keyboard I get some unpleasant 'iron' like noise when typing.

I'm not sure if there's a better alternative out there for our laptops, you must own one to really know if a laptop is better or not.

[elvair]

True, in order to fully understand whether machine is good for you or no, you need to own it.
In fact I'm thinking that right now x301 is probably the best technology available out there in ultra-portable class. The closest competitors are Air and VAIO.
I used to have VAIO and not particularly impressed with it, tons of stupid bloatware, and not particularly well built. As a matter of fact I am a fan of Apple, however I would not want to use it, cos I was using Windows all my life, all my applications are windows based, I hate the idea that I need to get used to that single click thing, new system architecture and design features. But Macbook Airs are also very nicelly done machines.

I think if one fine tunes his x301 really nicelly, then it could still be a very nice machine and again IBM legacy was immense, for one considered the fact that ThinkPad 701 series is displayed in Museum of Modern Art in New York
You dont see Apples displayed in museums ,

But we all are slaves to market system. If certain division is not profitable, then shareholders will be pressing for spin-off, and certainly there will be buyer out there if the price is right. Shareholders do not ultimatelly care that this particular department produces masterpieces of art.

Then you get a new owner who is doing business in a different way and certainly they will have some vision in mind as how make otherwise loss making business a profitable one. Then it is not clear whether they will be achieving this by cutting corners, or by improving the product, marketing campaign etc. I think in case of Lenovo we are yet to see whether it was a good acqiustion.

On the final point - I would strongly argue that IBM should not have sold the business. Indeed it was making losses and destroying value for the overall group, however I think it is because of notebooks line IBM was so well known in the world (at least partly). And in that sense it was very good marketing tool for them. So arguably the value destroyed due to the fact notebook line is making losses is probably easily compensated by value created due to brand awareness generated by those very notebooks.

Thats just some thoughts on the subjects quite off-topic really

So getting back to the question - whats the deal with the noise ? - Could someone who s got x301 confirm that they dont have that high pitched noise ? Cos that worries me, maybe I should send my notebook into Lenovo on warranty.

Ideally speaking what I would want is to understand whether it is pretty common for x301 to have this kind of noise and its no big deal at all, or on the opposite - if not that many people have, and it is actually fairly "uncommon feature"

[GatorHawk]

I have a brand new X61s with Vista. I had been experimenting with the power profiles and noticed a high freq. noise when it was set in maximum performance mode.

Not at home currently, so I don't know the exact settings in Vista, but did notice that the sound went away when I changed it back from max performance (was on Skype at the time and was afraid the system would go to sleep while talking on the phone).

[elvair]

Do you think it is possible to send x301 to Lenovo on waranty to fix that high pitched noise ? Anyone tried that/thinks its feasible?

Also there is another issue which is bothering me if I send it on warranty -

my machine been purchased in US with Vista Ultimate pre-installed it, at the moment Im in UK and in UK they dont supply them with Ultimate, only up to Business edition. So say like if they recieve it on warranty and do some sort of general system overhaul, what are the chances they may reinstall Business Edtion instead of Ultimate (cos I wanna keep ultimate)?

Although, I suppose my second part of question will be better addressed by Lenovo representatives, but I guess it would not hurt to ask yeah forum community? And I dont have full faith in Lenovo warranty's depot ability to correctly answer those questions over the phone.

Many thanks all in advance !

[Marin85]

I see many folks being afraid of the repair service people reinstalling their "own" OS on the ThinkPad. As a matter of fact, for all problems that are not related to HD/SSD and CD/DVD drives there is no need to include them when sending in the laptop for repair. It won´t void the warranty, and it´s fairly easy to remove these components from most (if not all) ThinkPads.

Cheers,

Marin

[elvair]

[quote="Marin85"]I see many folks being afraid of the repair service people reinstalling their "own" OS on the ThinkPad. As a matter of fact, for all problems that are not related to HD/SSD and CD/DVD drives there is no need to include them when sending in the laptop for repair. It won´t void the warranty, and it´s fairly easy to remove these components from most (if not all) ThinkPads.

Cheers,

Marin[/quote]


I see, that sounds like an interesting solution

[Marin85]

It´s actually written on the "inventory" sheet that one receives in case one has to send in his/her laptop for repair, nothing new under the sun

[ComputerMinder]

I don't notice that noise at all on the X301.

But here's something new I noticed,
This noise is pronouced when I'm in pre Vista, such as when booting or when running a ghost in dos mode or something like that.

In Vista I can now hardly here it anyway on my X200s. So it doesn't bother me. I did a disk imaging the other day and the computer just 'sang' and it made me go nuts. But I don't experience it anymore now when machine is booted.

[spikex34]

I think rkawakami is right about the sound being related to the amount of power the system is consuming. It sounds plausible that it's got something to do with the DC converter (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 08#p484908), though I didn't really understand half that post.

The X200s and T43 (among others) both have the "noise" problem. It appears various things can trigger the noise; for the T43 one thing was the processor entering the C4 power state. Entering C4 reduces the power draw by the processor, causing something on the board (the DC converter?) to emit a high pitched noise. A kludge-fix is to prevent the processor from entering the C4 powersaving state. In linux you just set /sys/module/processor/parameters/max_cstate to 3 (see T43 stuff on http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... tch_noises). The X200s seems to be a combination of C4 and the clock speed of the processor. I've found I've had to disable "Deeper Sleep" (C4) and keep the processor set at its highest clock speed (rather than letting it change dynamically). There's probably a less drastic way though.

[Greg Gebhardt]

The noise is still on even if not connected to AC, if I had normal HDD, then it would exaplin it all, but I have SDD, so it should not be making any noise whatsoever, apart from fan.

When I get to use my x301 more and more, I have a very bad feeling that im not impressed with quality at all (
I have a feeling that while thinkpad was still owned by IMB , there were a lot of "technological spillovers", whereby IBM had a very strong know-how in terms of designing high level industrial solutions and they transfered that knowledge to their notebook production line. Then when Lenovo came into ownership they still benefit from that know-how (for example the quality of keyboard), but the quality of machines if deteriorating rapidly

Even though say like keyboard, the build is very impressive, but one key on my keyboard , namelly right arrow is making strange clicking noise when Im pressing it. Common I expect more than thay from a 3,500$ machine.

I've read statistics somewhere that on average 25% of all notebooks irrespectivelly of brand are faulty in one way or the other and return to manufactureres either on warranty repair or permanently, but comon this kind of notebook should have some serious quality control policies. Some internal electronics problems may potentially be understandable, but a clicking key ? Comon ...

Pefection comes at a much higher cost but then when I saw you paid $3500 for it, well. . . . . . <vbg>

They are only two thirds that price here and I have never found perfection in laptops costing twice the amount. You just learn to use it as a tool and know that in a year or two you will get another. These are not investments

[elvair]

I looked alot around the web, googled here and there and it appears that noise IS actually related to processor. In particular to processor power management. One of the "practioners" on the net advises to switch off c3/c4 power (where applicable) using RightMark CPU utility. Apparently C3/C4 are low power states of processor and it is when processor enters them it starts to make the noise.

RightMark is far too complicated for me to understand properly, although I'm trying to have a look into that further into that in order to test the proposition. Supposedly on some BIOSes it is possible to disable those states directly in BIOS (not on mine though). Due to this reason haven't tested that myself.

I make a conclusion that high pitched noise is related to processor because there a lot of posts about it on the internet and not all of them are related to any lenovo machine. I found references to HP, Dell and pretty much every other brand out there.

If anyone can provide further insight, it will be much appreciated or in particular how to tweak x301 so to eliminate the noise.

If that proposition is correct, then switching off C3/C4 would result in higher heat -> more fan and higher power consumption. Although magnitude is not clear. If side effect are manageable, then I would be willing to make the trade off.

Opinions ?

[ssd_thinkpad]

When using the cpu all the time for not using the most energy saving cpu c4 state, it is bad for your battery life. There are better ways to fight the cpu noise There are two ways to shutdown the cpu whining (sound that comes when changing from energy saving cpu c3 state to more energy saving cpu c4 state) with the free program rmclock:

rmclock > Advanced CPU settings > Chipset > disable both "Enable Popup Mode" and "Enable Popdown Mode".

(You can completely disable cpu c4 state with: rmclock > Advanced CPU settings > Chipset > enable "Disable C4 Mode")

[elvair]

Thank you for your response, Iwil definently try that. Is that possible to get some explanation, what exactly are popdown and popup modes ?

Thanks

[ssd_thinkpad]

As far as I understand, when the popup and popdown modes are enabled, the cpu does not switch directly from c3 to super energy saving modus c4, but instead goes in the state between both c - states. Being in the state between c3 and c4 mode causes the noise. If the processor is in c3 or c4 state, it is silent. Lots of people just deactivate the power saving c4 mode, so the cpu never goes to the state between c3 and c4 and therefore there is no noise. The tradeoff is of course that in this case your notebook is not using the super energy saving c4 state.

[elvair]

Erm, when I go into "Chipset" settings, non of the options are active, in the field Chipset type the following line is displayed - Unknown (8086:2917)

When I go to CPU , it also says that its "Unknown Core"

any ideas how to force program into a particular chipset ?

[ssd_thinkpad]

If not already done, I'd try download rmclock from the official website and try again. As far as I know, the rmclock alternative nhc can not deactivate popdown/popup settings.

[elvair]

Did download it from official web-site, it appears from internet sources that rmclock may not be up to dtae with latest intel cpu, which is understandable. However if anyone has a solution to that - will be appreciated.

Also found this very nice guide to crunching cpu whine

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=276661

[pau]

Hello,

I just found this post when googling for "thinkpad x200s linux noise"

I think I can add a bit more of information to the post.

I have two OS's on my thinkpad:

(1) OpenBSD 4.5
(2) Fedora linux 11

(1) is my main OS but sometimes I need some applications not provided by the developers (because they are not open; blobs), such as skype or so, so that I had to install (2) for those things.

Well, it turns out that, when using the laptop with (1) it is _absolutely_ silent. I have never had such a silent laptop before in my life. Very rarely kick the fans and there's no high frequency noise coming from the upper, left part of the keyboard.

When I am runnin (2), the high pitched noise is constantly there. At the beginning it's hard to notice, but after some hours it is very irratiting. What's worse, I wonder whether it could imply some damage to the hw.

If you want to give it a try, there exists a "live" CD with OpenBSD:

http://bsdanywhere.org/download

I have never tried it, though. I suppose the noise will also be absent when running the live CD. They also provide a window manager, I think.

Just wondering how to get rid of the noise under linux.

Pau

[fuscob]

For what it's worth, I had an X60 Tablet that I sent to Lenovo (EZServ) twice for this issue, and they were unable to resolve it. Fortunately, as a result, they gave me a brand-new X61 Tablet (which did not whine) in exchange for the X60. My X200 Tablet does not whine either. Like others in this thread have mentioned, I think it's somewhat of a "luck of the draw" situation.

[amue]

Hello,

I just found this post when googling for "thinkpad x200s linux noise"

I think I can add a bit more of information to the post.

I have two OS's on my thinkpad:

(1) OpenBSD 4.5
(2) Fedora linux 11

(1) is my main OS but sometimes I need some applications not provided by the developers (because they are not open; blobs), such as skype or so, so that I had to install (2) for those things.

Well, it turns out that, when using the laptop with (1) it is _absolutely_ silent. I have never had such a silent laptop before in my life. Very rarely kick the fans and there's no high frequency noise coming from the upper, left part of the keyboard.

When I am runnin (2), the high pitched noise is constantly there. At the beginning it's hard to notice, but after some hours it is very irratiting. What's worse, I wonder whether it could imply some damage to the hw.

If you want to give it a try, there exists a "live" CD with OpenBSD:

http://bsdanywhere.org/download

I have never tried it, though. I suppose the noise will also be absent when running the live CD. They also provide a window manager, I think.

Just wondering how to get rid of the noise under linux.

Pau

Ich glaub nich, dass wir hier großartig Deutsch reden dürfen , daher:

According to my experience and from what I read at thinkpad-forum.de, the "whining" is caused by the CPU entering and exiting the C4 power saving mode. If C4 is not active, e.g. due to your OS not being able to use it, then the "whining" will not occur. When using Windows, C4 mode can be enabled/disabled by using RM Clock, unfortunatey I do not know how to do it using Linux. Also note that not using C4 mode will result in higher power consumption.

[ssd_thinkpad]

According to my experience and from what I read at thinkpad-forum.de, the "whining" is caused by the CPU entering and exiting the C4 power saving mode.

The cpu whines when going to or from c4 state with popup / popdown state. I enabled c4 state but deactivated the popup / popdown state on rmclock and the whining is gone.

[amue]

The cpu whines when going to or from c4 state with popup / popdown state. I enabled c4 state but deactivated the popup / popdown state on rmclock and the whining is gone.

Yes, but disabling popup/popdown mode will decrease the effectiveness of C4 state. I tested this on a Thinkpad T60 with a T7200 CPU; enabling C4 and not disabling popup/popdown state made passive cooling possible, while disabling them resulted in higher CPU temperatures.