14 vs 15 inch?

[postdiction]

I am looking to buy a T4x system in the next couple of months.

Things that are important to me in order of importance:
1) Price
1a) Reliability: This is going to be my only machine. I know for reliability with laptops is asking a lot but, I would like to know which model has the least number of known problems
2) CPU speed
3) graphic card speed/mem
4) Screen: I need a clear screen with no spots and max resolution for either 14 or 15 inch
5) Optical drive: would like dvd burner but will settle for cd burner/dvd
6) battery life
7) Ram: 512 will do
cosmetics


This is machine is going to replace my T23 which just doesn't have enough power for me anymore.
Will be doing basics: internet/web/email. However, this will be my one and only machine.


However, I would like to be able to hook up a hd usb tv dongle (thus, the cpu is the most important)

So I am thinking:
2ghz, 64mb vram, 512 ram, with a good highest resolution possible in the form factor screen
without hard drive to save money?

how much would something like this cost?
14inch vs 15inch? Are 14inch models usually cheaper?

thank-you for the help

PS: I don't need this machine for a couple of months, do you think prices will fall at all or are they pretty much flat?

[sjthinkpader]

14 inch will be closest to your T23. 15 inch will increase in size and weight by a lot. If you are really using the computer as desktop replacement role, then 15 inch especially the Flexview versions are great.

Deleting HDD from your buy is not a savings just from the standpoint of losing the OS license, Recovery partition, all the drivers and utilities. A good seller will have all the latest updates done already.

[dr_st]

1a) Reliability: This is going to be my only machine. I know for reliability with laptops is asking a lot but, I would like to know which model has the least number of known problems

The T4x in general, because of the GPU problem, is not a very reliable series, but 15" T43s and 15" T42s manufactured in Spring 2005 and later seem to have a considerably lower failure rate than other models, followed by 14" T43/T43p's.

2) CPU speed

Anything over 1.8GHz Dothan should be good. 2GHz CPUs can be had in T42/T43 models easily. Beyond that they tend to get hotter and more pricey.

3) graphic card speed/mem

The FireGL T2/FireGL V3200 models on the T42p/T43p will provide the best performance, however they tend to run noticeably hotter, have a higher failure rate because of that, and the machines are more expensive. I would advise to go for a Radeon 9600-based T42 or an X300-based T43.

4) Screen: I need a clear screen with no spots and max resolution for either 14 or 15 inch

SXGA+ (1400x1050) can be had on both. UXGA (1600x1200) only on 15" T42p/T43p models.

5) Optical drive: would like dvd burner but will settle for cd burner/dvd

Not a problem to get a DVD burner, and you can always upgrade later. DVD burners from T60/T61 also work.

6) battery life

Again I would advise against the FireGL models in the T42p/T43p. Consider a 9-cell battery, if you don't mind the extra weight and bulk.

7) Ram: 512 will do

You should probably go for 1GB, though.

So I am thinking:
2ghz, 64mb vram, 512 ram, with a good highest resolution possible in the form factor screen
without hard drive to save money?

how much would something like this cost?
14inch vs 15inch? Are 14inch models usually cheaper?

I agree with what you are thinking. In general, as sjthinkpader said, the 15" models are noticeably bigger and heavier, so you should determine how much portability you need. If it is mostly a desktop replacement, go for 15" because of the excellent wide-view-angle IPS "Flexview" screen, and the lower failure rates. But if you plan to lug the machine around a lot, consider a 14".

Yes, the 15" do tend to be more expensive because of the better screen. At least when they were new they were. Of course, when buying used, second-hand machines, all bets are off, and prices are pretty much random.

As far as the other components - I'd go for a T42/T43, non-P, with Radeon 9600/X300, and SXGA+ screen (in fact, all such machines will have SXGA+, regardless of 14" or 15").

[postdiction]

Thank-you for your responses.

In regards to T4x I was worried about the gpu problem that is why I asked.

[quote]The T4x in general, because of the GPU problem, is not a very reliable series, but 15" T43s and 15" T42s manufactured in Spring 2005 and later seem to have a considerably lower failure rate than other models, followed by 14" T43/T43p's.[/quote]

I am not sure what are the t42/3s models? I looked at thinkwiki?
Would a 15inch t42p have a lower probability of the gpu problem?


Size/portability are not too much of a concern as I would be using this machine mainly at home with occasionally taking it outside.

Price is a big concern for as i am poor thus, for me a t42p would be better than t43p

Currently I am thinking that a t42p would suite my needs the best. Something along the lines of :
1.8-2ghz
radeon 9800
at least 512mb ram
don't care about hd
will take cheapest optical drive available since that can be upgraded later.
as for 14 vs 15, I am thinking that 15 would be better since this is my sole machine.


what could I expect to pay for 15 inch t42p with these specs?

I found this laptop on ebay:

ThinkPad T42p 2374-BS3 - P M 745 (1.8GHz), 1GB RAM, 60GB HDD, 15in 1600x1200 LCD, 128MB ATI FireGL T2, 24x24x24x/8x CD-RW/DVD, Intel 802.11bg wireless(MPCI), Bluetooth/Modem(CDC), 1Gb Ethernet(LOM), UltraNav, Secure Chip, Fingerprint Reader

for buyitnow price of 369, not sure of the condition though.

Currently I don't have the funds, have to sell my t23 first . However, this seems like something that would work for me.


I really appreciate the help

[underclocker]

Whether 14" or 15", for my only machine, I'd strongly suggest that you consider looking at T60's. They are a big step up in performance, reliability, are very similar in design and weight, and are only marginally more expensive. In fact, T4x and T6x prices overlap quite a bit.

[ajkula66]

I'm with underclocker on this one...if I had to choose one ThinkPad and stay within the price range you're aiming at, T60 would be my weapon of choice...and the prices have gone down by quite a margin, roughly half of where they were a year ago...

[Kenny147]

I recently had my 15" Flexview T42 fixed due to the infamous GPU problem rearing it's ugly head and I can't begin to tell you how much I prefer to use it at home, compared to my 14" 4:3 T60P.

I got the T60P because I travel a lot and it's much more manageable going through airport security but even with the increase in speed and power (T60p is a T7600, T42 is a 765), the T42 is a winner.

Personally, I think part of the probelm with the GPU issues the T42 has, is that I used to pick it up with one hand causing the chasis and MB to flex. I learnt my lesson and I'm much more aware of doing this now.

[ssd_thinkpad]

I can't begin to tell you how much I prefer to use it at home, compared to my 14" 4:3 T60P. I got the T60P because I travel a lot (...)

When traveling, do you only take your 14 inch notebook with you or on some occasions prefer the bigger 15 inch? I brought back the x301 and ordered a 15 inch Flexview for traveling.

[dr_st]

I recently had my 15" Flexview T42 fixed due to the infamous GPU problem rearing it's ugly head and I can't begin to tell you how much I prefer to use it at home, compared to my 14" 4:3 T60P.

I got the T60P because I travel a lot and it's much more manageable going through airport security but even with the increase in speed and power (T60p is a T7600, T42 is a 765), the T42 is a winner.

Interesting. What makes you feel this way?

[Kenny147]

I always take my T60P when travelling. The 14" Thinkpads seem more manageable but it is just a personal choice.

And as for my 15" T42, now I've upgraded the CPU to a 765 and added a 7200, 100gb HDD, the flexview screen makes it a fantastic laptop. In fact, if I can find a decent 15" T60P with a T7600 CPU, I might just grab it.

[archer6]

My personal choice between T4x & T6x models are the 15" T60 & T60p models I have. With the basic batteries I've weighed both my 14" T60 & 15" T60. The 14" is only 3/4 lb. lighter when both have optical drives in the ultrbay. Therefore my preference is carrying the 15". Relative to other 15" notebooks the thin, flat, compact rectangular shape of the T series makes them far less bulky than all but a MacBook Pro. The extra screen size is worth it to me. However that said I'm no longer in college having to carry heavyweight books as well. For me when the focus turns to weight if the difference is not at least 1.5lbs less than my 15" T or W models, its simply not enough to be worth it. In terms of resolution for all around computing a 15" SXGA+ is ultimate with my second choice being my 15.4" WSXGA+ W500. Finally what I would love to see would be. T700 17" with the standard keyboard centered in the base like the 17" MacBook Pro, as opposed to the layout of the W700 with its offset keyboard and full size number pad. While I realize the Wacom tablet is a draw for those users that need it, I also believe a T700 version would sell very well.

[sktn77a]

I remember being TREMENDOUSLY disappointed at the quality of my T61p 14" 4x3 display when I received it. Dull, poor contrast - not even close to my 14" T4x XGA displays. Going on to compare this with my T42 15" Flexview SXGA+ screen almost made me cry.

Alas, that was then and this is now. What I don't understand is that the HP and Toshiba laptop LCDs appear bright and and have good contrast(?) What's the deal with Lenovo's display suppliers?

[raueda1]

I am looking to buy a T4x system in the next couple of months.
<<<snip>>>
However, I would like to be able to hook up a hd usb tv dongle (thus, the cpu is the most important)
<<<snip>>>

Not sure if this is relevant, but maybe it will help.

I've recently been fiddling around with the T4x <--> HDTV question. The aim is to find a reasonable head unit for streaming video (Hulu, Netflix, etc) to HDTV. Obviously this can't be true 1080i HD, but I want to get the best I can out of it without further enriching the cable provider (who i just cut off!! )

I've evaluated the following Thinkpads:
1. 15" 1.8 Ghz T42p UXGA, 2gb ram, Radeon 9600 and 128mb vram
2. 14" 1.7 Ghz T42 SXGA+, 1gb ram, Radeon 9600 and 64mb vram
3. 14" 1.7 Ghz T42 XGA, 2 gb ram, Radeon 7600 and 32mb vram
4. 14" T40 1.4 Ghz XGA 1gb ram, Radeon 7600 and 32mb vram

All have Bluetooth and were controlled by a Bluetooth mouse from a viewing distance of about 10' from the 51" screen. I'm using the usual dock with DVI output to feed the HDTV. The TV is a 51' rear projection CRT unit with a DVI input (not a common feature I gather), so I don't need DVI -> HDMI adaptors or USB stuff. I set up a dual displays using Presentation director. TV display resolution was set to 1280x720 with 16 bit color depth (more on that later). The dock is fed by hardwired 100mb ethernet and whatever feed I get from the cable modem. The browser was Firefox. The display was sharp enough to read everything and manipulate the system from the viewing position. It was initially a little fuzzy but I realigned the TV focus (which needed redoing anyway) and the improvement in resolution was dramatic.

The overall winner is #2. Video from #3 and #4 tended to be choppier and pixalate more in high-motion segments, such as fire, explosions, etc. These also had a hard time displaying Hulu's so-called HD (420p) which was always unwatchably choppy.

#1 and #2 were about the same in performance. The extra ram and vram of #1 didn't seem to make any discernible difference. However, the higher resolution made setup much harder and shifting between the displays was much harder. For some reason the full-screen mode in Hulu and other players didn't ever work right on the high-res unit. I could never get it centered right. With unit #2 it worked immediately and is easy to use. Hulu's HD mode is usually OK on both units. The improvement in resolution is quite obvious over their standard def. Sometimes it's choppy, which I attribute to internet feed quality. Subjectively the picture quality on Hulu HD is between "digital cable" and DVD. It's absolutely good enough for casual viewing. Old Star Trek episodes are actually the best I've ever seen.

Finally, I didn't see any difference between 16 bit and 32 bit color on any of the units. I stuck with 16 bit with the notion that this would be less CPU &/or GPU &/or memory intensive. I really don't know, but it seems like it can't hurt.

I've now been using unit #2 for several weeks and it works admirably.
Make of this what you will, hope it helps and good luck!

[Maccess]

I am looking to buy a T4x system in the next couple of months.

Things that are important to me in order of importance:
1) Price
1a) Reliability: This is going to be my only machine. I know for reliability with laptops is asking a lot but, I would like to know which model has the least number of known problems
2) CPU speed
3) graphic card speed/mem
4) Screen: I need a clear screen with no spots and max resolution for either 14 or 15 inch
5) Optical drive: would like dvd burner but will settle for cd burner/dvd
6) battery life
7) Ram: 512 will do

1) Choose a T43, even if it costs more, see #7
1a) The T43 has a heftier case to address the GPU failure problem caused by board flex. Avoid a T40, which doesn't have most of the T4x hardware bugs worked out (e.g. USB port grounding that causes premature failure)
2) Anything faster than a 1.5 should do. the processor is socketed, you can upgrade all the way to a 2.2Ghz. It's easier to find an upgrade processor for the T43's 533Mhz DDR2 bus.
3) There's a gotcha here. Some T4x models use intel Integrated graphics, pay a little more for the version with ATI graphics, particularly if you are going to use a dock. With ATI graphics, both VGA and DVI dock ports cna be used for a dual monitor setup (I have 2 1600x1200 monitors attached to my T43). Intel Graphics only supports the external VGA port.
4) The 14" screen is available with easy on the eyes 1024x768 or high resolution 1400x1050.The 15" is available in 1024x768 and 1600x1200 versions. Someone on the list has upgraded their T43 to 2048x1536, but you'll need very good eyes for that. See #3. I hardly use the built in screen and keyboard of the T43. It's docked at home and in the office. I only use those when I travel.
5) This isn't a primary consideration, specs-wise. The device is hot swappable, so don't worry if your dream machine has the wrong drive, just replace it with what you want later on.
6) There is an extended battery for the T43. I suggest you use Crystal CPUID to undervolt the CPU, and eBoostr. Also, it helps to eject the Optical DRIVE from the bay when running on battery power...or use a blank travel dock. If you really want long bettery life, get an X series instead. An X32 (not an X30) should do well, if you have the budget get a used X60/X60s.
7) Unless the T41 or T42 has plenty of RAM (1GB+) forget about it. DDR is more expensive than DDR2. It's cheaper to pay more for a T43 and upgrade the cheap DDR2 RAM to the 2GB maximum (that's a limit of the chipset, so there's no tweak for Windows that will let it support more).

[Binh]

1) Choose a T43, even if it costs more, see #7
1a) The T43 has a heftier case to address the GPU failure problem caused by board flex. Avoid a T40, which doesn't have most of the T4x hardware bugs worked out (e.g. USB port grounding that causes premature failure)
2) Anything faster than a 1.5 should do. the processor is socketed, you can upgrade all the way to a 2.2Ghz. It's easier to find an upgrade processor for the T43's 533Mhz DDR2 bus.
3) There's a gotcha here. Some T4x models use intel Integrated graphics, pay a little more for the version with ATI graphics, particularly if you are going to use a dock. With ATI graphics, both VGA and DVI dock ports cna be used for a dual monitor setup (I have 2 1600x1200 monitors attached to my T43). Intel Graphics only supports the external VGA port.
4) The 14" screen is available with easy on the eyes 1024x768 or high resolution 1400x1050.The 15" is available in 1024x768 and 1600x1200 versions. ...
6) There is an extended battery for the T43. ....
7) Unless the T41 or T42 has plenty of RAM (1GB+) forget about it. DDR is more expensive than DDR2. It's cheaper to pay more for a T43 and upgrade the cheap DDR2 RAM to the 2GB maximum (that's a limit of the chipset, so there's no tweak for Windows that will let it support more).

2. If you intend to overclock, T40-T42 is cheaper since probably you do not have to buy a new CPU
3. Intel graphic is present only on T43
4. There also is a 15" 1400x1050 (FlexView).
6. All T43's batteries are applicable for other T4x
7. Yes, DDR2 is cheaper, but at this moment the difference is not big comparing to the cost of the computer.
Also note that T43s may surfer from 2010 error.
Overall, T43 and T42 are equally interesting.