Hard drive is clicking all the time!!!!

Message

beeblebrox · #31 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:15 am

The clicking is absolutely normal. It is the hardware's firmware that recalibrates the head.
Calibration, of course takes time during idle time!!

Nothing to worry about. I know a lot of 3.5" drives that do that noise (now that is really loud and annoying).
In case you don't believe me, read at Hitachi's, Seagate, IBM's or whatever's FAQ page.

Here is the one for the thinkpads:

(http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.ws ... MIGR-42320)

Explanation of hard disk drive clicking sound - ThinkPad General

Symptom
The hard disk drive in your IBM ThinkPad system may periodically emit a soft clicking sound. This sound may be more noticeable on hard disk drives manufactured by Hitachi

Affected configurations
Any IBM ThinkPad system.

Solution
None. This is not a problem. The hard disk drive is working as designed. See the Additional information section below for more details.

A new firmware update has been released for Hitachi DK23CA hard disk drives to reduce the sound level of this clicking. Please note that this firmware will only reduce the sound and will not completely nullify it.

Please check the file download section in this site to see if your hard drive is applicable for this firmware update.

Additional information
This clicking sound is caused by the hard disk drive unloading and loading its heads. The head is designed to be periodically unloaded for various reliability reasons. When the hard drive is accessed (either by action from the user or by the operating system), the head will be reloaded. This unloading and loading causes this clicking sound. This is a normal sound and the hard disk drive is working as designed.

Roisin · #32 Post by **Roisin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:31 am

beeblebrox: so have you updated your firmware?

well, allright, its like that by design, but toshiba/fujitsu drives seem to have 'designed' it better

sugo · #33 Post by **sugo** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:39 am

If it's just recalibration, why would it keep recalibrating every few minutes over and over until system reboot?

7K60 users don't get this clickng noise issue. Whatever it is I think the firmware has flaw in it. The fact that IBM OEM 5k80 uses a very old firmware is not helping either.

Roisin · #34 Post by **Roisin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:49 am

i dont have a 7K60, but a friend of mine bougt one for his HP notebook, and it does the same, the same 5k80Recordings.zip clicking.

however i dont quite get this 'recalibrating' term, i would say, just park the head, if its idle...

this doesnt make much sense to me:

This clicking sound is caused by the hard disk drive unloading and loading its heads. The head is designed to be periodically unloaded for various reliability reasons. When the hard drive is accessed (either by action from the user or by the operating system), the head will be reloaded. This unloading and loading causes this clicking sound. This is a normal sound and the hard disk drive is working as designed.

Roisin · #35 Post by **Roisin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:38 am

i googled a bit, and it seems setting 'Advanced power management' to 0, helped someone, anyone wants to try it?

(i'm laptopless right now, waiting for a t43)

here's the Feature Tool:
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
http://www.hitachigst.com/downloads/ftool_196.iso

'recalibrating' simply makes no sense to me, sorry

and neither does 'moving the head arround' to avoid the deathstar 'scratch'

Roisin · #36 Post by **Roisin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:55 am

and one more

, some other forum member mentions "Power Booster"

I have a Toshiba Satellite A30-604 with a Hitachi 40 GB harddisk and have experienced exactly the same problems described in this thread. I finally found a tool called "Power Booster" at http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm that took care of the problem for me

This utility works with our Travelstar drives. Power Booster is a utility for laptops that gives users direct control over the Advanced Battery Life Extender power settings for our mobile disk drives. Power Booster allows any computer with an ATAPI 4 mobile disk drive and running Windows 95/98 to directly control advanced power management features of the drive. Advanced Battery Life Extender is an advanced power savings implementation and Power Booster is a user interface to it. Additional details are provided on the download page.
http://www.hitachigst.com/downloads/pbinstall.exe

rhobite · #37 Post by **rhobite** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:46 pm

I bought my 2373-5TU recently and my drive shipped with the latest firmware, but it still clicks. I have a HTS548040M9AT00 with firmware A5DA, which is the latest version for that drive. You can check your firmware level in device manager - expand disk drives, click on your drive, go to the details tab, and select hardware IDs. You'll see a few lines with your drive model # and firmware level. The firmware is the last 4 characters ("A5DA" in my case"), I don't know what the MG2O stands for.

HTS548040M9AT00_________________________MG2OA5DA

I haven't tried any of the acoustic management or APM stuff yet. I may do that and check back in here. It's good to know that the click is normal, but it is still annoying. I also get the hich-pitched "video beep" when I'm scrolling certain pages, but that's a separate issue.

sugo · #38 Post by **sugo** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:23 pm

A5DA is "newest" for IBM OEM 5K80. The retail Hitachi 5K80 is at least A56A last time I called Hitachi Tech Support.

rhobite · #39 Post by **rhobite** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:30 pm

sugo wrote:A5DA is "newest" for IBM OEM 5K80. The retail Hitachi 5K80 is at least A56A last time I called Hitachi Tech Support.

Thanks. I'm sure this has been asked, but is there a way to upgrade the IBM OEM Travelstar to the latest HGST firmware? I couldn't find any firmware downloads on Hitachi's site. I'm guessing the answer is "no".

People may be interested in this thread on SilentPCReview: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?p=143203

Kenn · #40 Post by **Kenn** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:32 pm

beeblebrox wrote:The clicking is absolutely normal. It is the hardware's firmware that recalibrates the head.
Calibration, of course takes time during idle time!!

Nothing to worry about. I know a lot of 3.5" drives that do that noise (now that is really loud and annoying).
In case you don't believe me, read at Hitachi's, Seagate, IBM's or whatever's FAQ page.

Thanks for the link, wish I had a USB floppy drive on hand :/

However, I'm not yet convinced that this is addressing the same issue. I've tested and worked extensively with literally hundreds of drives from every major manufacturer, and I've NEVER encounted a working HDD that makes a similar, persistent sound.

The IBM article only mentions a "periodic soft clicking sound." This brief description isn't sufficient to accurately say it's the same sound I and others have talked about - a continuous, 6-8 clicks-per-second pattern that is 1) as loud as the drive can possibly be during normal operation, and 2) continues for at least over 15 minutes if left unattended. I've always been too scared (and distracted by it) to leave it going for any longer than that. It begins regardless of whether the system is idle or in use, also refuses to stop after heavy HD activity such as large file transfers. In fact, once I started a defrag a few minutes after the clicking started, and the clicking started back up as soon as the defrag completed.

If this is a normal sound, it's entirely novel in its behavior. It's loud, it passes easily-felt vibrations through the palmrest, and it only goes away on reboot. I personally remain concerned.

rhobite · #41 Post by **rhobite** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:37 pm

Kenn wrote:Thanks for the link, wish I had a USB floppy drive on hand :/

You could write the floppy image on a desktop, then read it back into a CD-burning program and create a bootable CD. You only need one disk (disk 12 I think, if you have the 5k80). But check first and make sure you don't have the latest firmware already.

Based on my past experiences with hard drives, my gut feeling is that the noise is normal, but this is just a gut feeling of course.

Kenn · #42 Post by **Kenn** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:40 pm

rhobite wrote:You could write the floppy image on a desktop, then read it back into a CD-burning program and create a bootable CD. You only need one disk (disk 12 I think, if you have the 5k80). But check first and make sure you don't have the latest firmware already.

Based on my past experiences with hard drives, my gut feeling is that the noise is normal, but this is just a gut feeling of course.

Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a shot tonight

sugo · #43 Post by **sugo** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:47 pm

rhobite wrote:is there a way to upgrade the IBM OEM Travelstar to the latest HGST firmware? I couldn't find any firmware downloads on Hitachi's site. I'm guessing the answer is "no".

People may be interested in this thread on SilentPCReview: http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?p=143203

According to Hitachi Tech Support it's impossible. The DFT used for firmware upgrade will not let you. Moreover, he said that retail Hitachi drives and OEM drives (such as IBM and Dell) are made differently. Using retail Hitachi firmware on an OEM drive can cause hardware damage.

By all means, the 5K80 is a quiet drive - before it starts clicking around

Is the Samsung MP0402H an one platter drive? If so then it's not fair to compare against a two platter 5k80.

beeblebrox · #44 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:42 pm

well, my Thinkpads came with silent Hitachi drives and very silent Fujitsu drives. I upgraded with a large Seagate and got that clicking sound.

Checked on new 3.5" Seagate and Western Digital drives. Same clicking noise under same conditions, but way louder.

Since I am using Fujitsus in my Thinkpads now, I don't think I will be concerned with Hitachi firmware anymore.
BTW: I find Fujitsu drives far better than Hitachi. Very fast, stay cold and are dead silent.

sugo · #45 Post by **sugo** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:16 pm

beeblebrox wrote: I upgraded with a large Seagate and got that clicking sound.

That's disappointing. I was going to try a Seagate laptop drive at some point ... well looks like I will stick with Fujitsu from now on.

beeblebrox wrote:BTW: I find Fujitsu drives far better than Hitachi. Very fast, stay cold and are dead silent.

It's different here for some reason. When I still had it and when it was behaving, the 5K80 runs at 34'C at idle, 38'C max on read/write. The Fujitsu MHT2080AH I have now runs at 38'C at idle, 42'C max on read/write. I don't feel the Fujitsu is drawing any more power so it doesn't bother me at all.

The Fujitsu is indeed a tad bit quieter than 5K80.

Kenn · #46 Post by **Kenn** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:20 pm

I think I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that the clicking is non-destructive, and use it as an excuse to upgrade to a 7200rpm drive as soon as they hit 80-100GB

Leon · #47 Post by **Leon** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:32 pm

good decision...........

firstep · #48 Post by **firstep** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:37 am

Why not contact IBM and talk about this question? What if the HD crashes suddenly?

Kenn wrote:I think I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that the clicking is non-destructive, and use it as an excuse to upgrade to a 7200rpm drive as soon as they hit 80-100GB

davidlg16 · #49 Post by **davidlg16** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:48 pm

davidlg16 wrote:i also have a T42 2378FVU with the 40gb 5400 Hitachi. I experience this click sound about once every 5 seconds for a few min, then it stops, then it'll start randomly some later time. anyway, i guess i'm one of the luckier ones since i wont be able to stand that fast clicking i heard on the mp3 file posted earlier.

haha, now my 2378FVU just started the fast clicking sound as well, sigh...annoys the #$%#@$!% out of me, sometimes i feel like bashing it against the wall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kenn · #50 Post by **Kenn** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:01 am

firstep wrote:Why not contact IBM and talk about this question? What if the HD crashes suddenly?

Kenn wrote:I think I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope that the clicking is non-destructive, and use it as an excuse to upgrade to a 7200rpm drive as soon as they hit 80-100GB

Laziness, mainly. I know that it's an "epidemic" problem, that people have gotten conflicting responses from IBM, and that they really don't know exactly what is going on. At one end, they may say it's normal, at the other they'll send a new drive (perhaps a refurb, which is SOP), and I don't have time to reinstall now. Also, my drive has been clicking occasionally since I've had it, others here have complained, and nobody yet has posted about a HD failure (whether in connection with the clicking or not). I also make regular full and incremental backups.

But yeah if I had more time, I'd really want to get to the bottom of this.

sugo · #51 Post by **sugo** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:36 am

Kenn, don't worry. I highly doubt it is any sign of hdd failure.

beeblebrox · #52 Post by **beeblebrox** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:24 am

I am not quite sure what this discussion forum is all about.
People ask, other people give detailed explanation about the problem and a cure.

Still, a lot of other people continue to chat and complain, without thinking. Very strange...

I don't want to step on someone's toes or be rude, but I often have the impression that many folks just want to keep the discussion going regardless of any advice. They just want to chat!

If anyone ever has any clue about electronics and software he will immediately figure out what is going on with the drives. Just read the hardware manual of the drives. They are on the manufacturer's web page.

The clicking sound is the head loading magnet for the moving coil. During idle time the head starts perodically to calibrate, by reading hundreds of sectors, determine access time, recalculate acceleration/deccelaration time and verify data integrity of the internal setup parameters.
How do you think the S.M.A.R.T. software should get its data from?

If you want a silent drive then turn ON the acoustic management of the firmware. Go to www.hgst.com and READ what they say. Download the software, set the parameter and your drive is silent.
I did it, the concerned Travelstars are dead silent now.
The clicking sound of the IBM "Deathstar" was something very different, because the platter was damaged by head scratching on the surface all the time, thus the data became corrupted (the femto head started reading new/old data on the same magnetic cell of the platter) and the slider started to recalibrate all the time, because it could not find the sectors anymore.

Anyway, you might want to go to Dell's support site and download their patch for the Travelstar.

So, the discussion will go on and on...

rhobite · #53 Post by **rhobite** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:03 pm

beeblebrox wrote:I am not quite sure what this discussion forum is all about.
People ask, other people give detailed explanation about the problem and a cure.

Still, a lot of other people continue to chat and complain, without thinking. Very strange...

What's wrong with a little chatting? You may be reasonably sure that you're right - I happen to agree with you - but I don't think that ends the discussion.

On another note, I used Hitachi's feature tool to set acoustic management to the maximum, and power management to its minimum value. It seems to be working, although there are slight clicks occasionally, the typical rapid clicking sound is gone. I highly recommend this to people who are still annoyed by the clicking. You do lose some hard drive performance, but that's fine with me.

mdarnton · #54 Post by **mdarnton** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:15 pm

A couple of months after I got it, my T41 started making the noise in Sugo's first recording--a quick drumming click, constantly, though getting louder and softer and missing beats once in a while. Definitely not the noise Beeblebrox talks about. To me, it was the sound that a dry bearing makes.

I called IBM and the tech said "Back up, NOW!" and they immediately sent me a "new" (reconditioned) hard drive. I haven't had the problem since, though the replacement had a few random virtually silent--much quieter than the stock drive.noises. That drive just got moved to an MP3 player, and in its place I have a 4200rpm 80Gb Travelstar that's

ludu35 · #55 Post by **ludu35** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:50 pm

zverg wrote:With mine, all I had to do was mention that it was constantly clicking and they replaced it "right away", and by that I mean it took months but should have only taken a couple days.

What drive IBM sent you? Same original one 5K80? Or did you esepcially request for different 80GB drive? Please advice. Thanks
-LD

Matt · #56 Post by **Matt** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:54 pm

I cured it by installing the new HD IBM sent me!

Kenn · #57 Post by **Kenn** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:34 am

mdarnton wrote:A couple of months after I got it, my T41 started making the noise in Sugo's first recording--a quick drumming click, constantly, though getting louder and softer and missing beats once in a while. Definitely not the noise Beeblebrox talks about. To me, it was the sound that a dry bearing makes.

Exactly, I've used hundreds of hard drives in my work and in building high-performance rigs, and have never run into the phenomena that some so quickly dismiss here. No HD needs to spend hours calibrating itself, or continue to do so through heavy read/write activity. It also takes more to convince me that the issue described on the manufacturer's site is the same one when the only description provided is of "an occasional clicking sound." There are a lot of clicking sounds (both good and bad) that come from a HD, and if that's the best they can do, I'm just sorry to say I'm not quite convinced we're talking about the same thing. So I hope nobody takes any personal offense when I feel that at least for me, as someone whose living was made knowing how computer hardware works, the issue is not yet dead and buried!

Though to clarify, I would be more than happy to find that this is normal, since it means less to worry about.

inzeback · #58 Post by **inzeback** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:14 am

hi
thanks all for the help I found here.
I called IBM who had never heared about that pb(in france).
they changed the hdd for the same 6 month newer. I don't know if this a refurbish one or not.
"click click click" seems to be gone.... but see you in 6 months then.
With luck, hitashi have fixed the pb on their 5k80

Inze

dimon · #59 Post by **dimon** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:47 pm

mdarnton wrote:..That drive just got moved to an MP3 player...

wow... hold a sec... there are some mp3 player enclosures for notebook harddrives? could you recommend/send links? beats having plain USB enclusure... Thansk!

Navck · #60 Post by **Navck** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:58 pm

Clicking - Standard for your harddrive to do
Want to know why?
Harddrive head moves from one part of the disk, to another, to another rapidly within milaseconds... Obviously you should hear something (I can hear my desktop harddrive do this during defragmentation, as well as with my T43)

Hard drive is clicking all the time!!!!

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