Please talk me out of it! Help, I'm about to pull the trig..

[makai]

I want a X61s... and I want it NOW! Problem is... I have two beautiful X31's that I simply love! Both of them have been troublefree and if I decide to go with an X61s, I will probably sell one of the x31's... I just can't get rid of two of them! I've read so many conflicting stories about the X61s palmrest getting hot, but I think it sort of boiled down to the Intel cards being cooler than the Atheros cards... something like that anyways.
After all the reviews and threads I read about the X61s, I still have a few questiongs. I know its a silly question, seeing as I'm going to ask about two completely different animals here, but should I just keep on going with my X31's or should I buy this most awesome X61s? I just can't make up my mind! Anyone who has had experience with both of these, can you tell me, or give me an idea, if you are truly happy you upgraded?

Thanks!

[Ken Fox]

I want a X61s... and I want it NOW! Problem is... I have two beautiful X31's that I simply love! Both of them have been troublefree and if I decide to go with an X61s, I will probably sell one of the x31's... I just can't get rid of two of them! I've read so many conflicting stories about the X61s palmrest getting hot, but I think it sort of boiled down to the Intel cards being cooler than the Atheros cards... something like that anyways.
After all the reviews and threads I read about the X61s, I still have a few questiongs. I know its a silly question, seeing as I'm going to ask about two completely different animals here, but should I just keep on going with my X31's or should I buy this most awesome X61s? I just can't make up my mind! Anyone who has had experience with both of these, can you tell me, or give me an idea, if you are truly happy you upgraded?

Thanks!

I owned an X32 for 4 years, and an X31 for a year before that (which ended tragically when I spilled a glass of red wine on the screen in a hotel room, but I digress). I owned two different X60 machines for a 1-2 years, and now I own an X61s which will soon be joined by at least one more of them.

The hot palmrest issue is a fact, although maybe a little less so for the X61s than it was for the X60, in my experience. I prefer to use a travel mouse whenever possible with any notebook, which reduces the issue for me. When I use the trackpoint instead the palmrest heat doesn't bother me that much.

Although I loved my X32, the reality is that once I got my first X60, I stopped using the X32, which in the end is a better indication than what I might say about the X32 vs. the X6x. With the slim 4 cell battery the X61s becomes an "almost-netbook-small" laptop.

As to additional features I like in the X6x(s) models, there are 3 USB2 ports and all three of them are powered. The X31/32 series has only 2 USB ports and only one of those is powered.

If you want an X61s you better get it quickly because they are no longer being sold by Lenovo, and those that remain are going to be snapped up pretty quickly by those who don't like widescreen models.

ken

[makai]

Thanks for the reply Ken! I was doing a search on NHC for the X6x models and wouldn't you know it, I came on a thread about people loving the X31 over the X6x series. Of course, someone also said the loved the X6x over the X31... which didn't surprise me either.

I also use a laptop mouse, so even with my X31, my hands don't sit on the palmrest for any extended period of time. I was just concerned with the heat because it's all over the web. I do a lot of photo editing with apps that require more power than the X31 really has, (not to mention the puny 16meg video ram) so this is why I'm looking for the upgrade. My T41 handles the apps fairly well, but a C2D machine should do much better, and when I travel to Hawaii this year, I want something I can work with.

One more question... I've searched, but can't find a straight answer... can you tell me what is the low speed the X61s runs at during idol? Is it 600 or 800mhz?

After re-reading your post... you mentioned only one on the X3x USB is powered. Was this true on all your X3x's? This is strange as both of mine are powered. I can run external HDD drive enclosures off both USB ports.

Thanks!

[fkelly]

I had 2 X31's and in their day they were very good machines for me. I decided to upgrade and picked up an X60. Blown away by the increase of speed using the X6. The X6 was much thinner and lighter and overall gave the impression that one made a step forward.
I use my X60 and my wife's X61 and there is absolutely no way I could go back to an X31.

Palmrest heat issue has never been a problem for me, now you wanna talk about putting this thing on your lap on bare skin. Better get your suntan lotion out. Yeah it gets hot underneath.

Lastly, with the X6 and T4 models I used,it seems I spent boatloads of money on memory. With the X6 as well as T6 series I can generally buy (3) -2GB sticks for what I used to pay for 1GB stick of the 2700/2100 memory.

I love my X60, love my wife's X61 a little better and could easily get used to an x200...

[visitor]

Hey guys, would you mind sharing more details of your experience with X Thinkpads, more specifically in comparison with an X31:

Question #1:
- How does the keyboard fare in the X6s models compared to the X31? any flex at all ?

Question #2: one thing that bothered me with the X31 was the heat underneath which made it unbearable to rest it on belly to be used by the sofa. Is any S6x model less hot underneath than was the X31 ?

Question #3: how are the ports ? The x31 had firewire, cardbus, 2 USBs and a CompactFlash reader which was too slow to be useful, wonder if this got any better. I know an ExpressCard can be adapted in the X6x although its speed is reportedly capped by USB. I also noticed that other X models such as the X200 no longer have firewire so extra cost for capturing DV video.

Question #4: is any X6x model lighter than an X31 ?

Question #5: is it possible (and practical) to install an SDD in the X6x ?

Many thanks for your valuable advice.

[fkelly]

Bom dia, como vai......

I think I answered several of your questions in my previous post.

The bottom gets extremely hot on the X60, the X61 not so much but both are cooler then the X31.

The X60-61 are both lighter then the X31.

Keyboard is much the same. The matte on the X6's i slightly different the the X31. I prefer the x6 keyboard key finish. (tough to describe, don't have a X31 handy)

No firewire port on the x6 series

A good place to compare lappies is www.notebookreview.com. If memory serves me they even do a direct compare with alot of the features of the x60 vs x31. Also do a search on this forum for the x31 vs x60.

Hope that helps.

[visitor]

fkelly,
Bom tarde ! And thanks for helping.

Are you sure there's no firewire in the X6x ? Could you please doublecheck on that, cause it might be a deal-braker for me if confirmed. So if I have to add an adapter then I might turn my eyes towards a refurb X200 instead.
Thanks again.

[archer6]

I have purchased (new) every X series since day one, my favorite is my X60s 1705-24U

1) Has the best of all X model keyboards. Very solid, simply excellent.
2) Coolest quietest X model of the lot.
3) Here is a list of ports:

One Secure Digital Card slot, supports SD memory cards
One Type I or one Type II, CardBus Plus (34mm ExpressCard via adapter)
IEEE 1394 (FireWire) port (4-pin)
Three USB (version 2.0)
External DB-15 monitor
Infrared (4Mbps)
RJ-11 (modem)
RJ-45 (ethernet)
IEEE 1394 (4-pin)
no serial, parallel, keyboard, or mouse ports

Then if more are needed the X6 ultrabase adds:

Power button (front)
Stereo speakers (1 watt)
Security key lock, security
keyhole, and optional security screw
Serial and parallel ports
Analog DB-15 monitor port
Four USB 2.0 ports
Gigabit ethernet port
Modem port
Microphone in and headphone out
Requires 65 or 90 watt AC adapter

4) Yes it's lighter

5) Yes, after trying a Samsung, and OCz, I finally found the speed I wanted in the Intel X25-M 160GB SSD, while it's a bit pricey if you want speed, this is the drive to use.

I found the SSD here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820167015

Cheers...

[yak]

Are you sure there's no firewire in the X6x ? Could you please doublecheck on that, cause it might be a deal-braker for me if confirmed. So if I have to add an adapter then I might turn my eyes towards a refurb X200 instead.
Thanks again.

I don't know much about X series but ThinkWiki lists all X6x models as having Firewire.

[Ken Fox]

fkelly,
Bom tarde ! And thanks for helping.

Are you sure there's no firewire in the X6x ? Could you please doublecheck on that, cause it might be a deal-braker for me if confirmed. So if I have to add an adapter then I might turn my eyes towards a refurb X200 instead.
Thanks again.

There most definitely IS a FW port on the X6x machines; it is located (on my new X61s) near the front on the right side, just in front of the 2 USB ports.

[ssd_thinkpad]

As far as I remember, my x60 had a Firewire port near the front on the right side. It got hot very fast but I think the heating problem was adressed with the x60s. The x60 had definitely a netbook feeling but was also good with the 8 cell battery. Although somewhat heavy then. It's the best form factor if you want to have a really small footprint and also like to get some work done as the display is 4:3 so you get more vertical height than a heavier and bulkier widescreen t400.

[fkelly]

Sorry missed it. I never use it but now see it with lappie in hand.

[visitor]

fkelly, archer6, Ken, yak and ssd_thinkpad

Many thanks for your precious tips.
The impression I get is that experiences may vary among users of a same machine.
I understand that this happens sometimes because Lenovo (as did IBM before it) does not spell all the exact parts of a given model (keyboard, as example, can be one of three kinds and you never know until you buy the notebook), and of course there are varied personal preferences.
Guess I'm leaning towards a used or refurb X6x Thinkpad, as the temptation for a nice performing x200 got tamed by the lack of firewire, the bezel-waste, and reports that the keyboard although full-sized has some flex.
What keeps worrying me a bit is the reports of short life battery with the X6x, which is a strong point of the X200 along with reported less heat and fan noise.

all the best to all

[makai]

Wow! I left for a few days and what great responses! Thanks!
I am still so teetering on the X61s! I reeeaaallllyyyyy want one! I feel like a kid looking at some candy through the window! Also, with the prices nowadays (especially on ebay), I could get one for about $650 - $680 with an 8-cell battery. Man, compared to when these first came out, its such a fantastic deal!
I guess the main problem is that both my X31's still work great and I'm having a hard time justifying spending money to replace them. For word processing and Internet stuff, and also mid-apps like Photoshop 7, the X31 still works great for me. Plus, both units also have media-slices, so I wouldn't have to worry about buying an external DVD or an X6 (expensive!). What to do, what to do!

By the way, anyone run Lightroom 2x on their X61(x)? How's the performance? It runs on the X31, but understandably, a bit lame!
Also, can anyone tell me if the 4-cell performance is acceptable, or should I just forget about it and go with the 8-cell battery?

Much appreciate the feedback!

[j-dawg]

If it all works and you're content, stick with what you have. But my X61T - tablet features aside, functionally about the same as an X61s - really blows me away. Despite being based on a model that's three or more years old, despite having a low-voltage processor and integrated graphics, despite having no trackpad and no optical drive, it does everything I want more competently than has any other computer I've owned and feels solid to boot. I've played with T61s and I suppose I can understand some people complaining about quality dropping on Lenovo's watch, but it doesn't show on the conventional X61 models I've played with, and certainly not on the tablet.

If you have the money and are willing to spend it for a thoroughly competent and satisfying computing experience, go for it. If I had to go back a year and buy any computer on the market, I'd just buy exactly what I've got right now again, even if my budget magically grew. I hate to prattle on like a fanboy, but my X61 has served me really well.

But I think you could probably get it for less than $650-680. From what I've heard, the X60s might be a cooler and quieter machine than the X61s, as well as being cheaper (though you have to forgo some peace of mind as it will probably be a used machine). That's the one complaint I have about the X61T - if it's plugged in, its fan runs basically all the time, which can be annoying.

[makai]

From what I've heard, the X60s might be a cooler and quieter machine than the X61s

Yah, I've been reading so much about this, and most of it is conflicting... although, most tend to say the X60s does run cooler... with much less fan operation going on.

Well, I've decided... I'll wait and pass on this for now. My excitement has diminished quite a bit over the last few days, so now it's not as mind-wrenching as it used to be! I guess the major deciding factor was the palmrest heat... ref: Ken Fox's temp review on his X60 http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=36873. If the X60, got this hot, the X61 has to be worse... I don't think I could live with it. My X31 does get warm in the palmrest, but I'm sure it's nothing like the X6x series. Too bad though, I was really looking forward to owning another new Thinkpad!

Thanks to all who responded!

[Ken Fox]

The replacement X60 I got from Lenovo was hot on the right palmrest, however nowhere near as hot as the one I sent back to them. The X61s I got from Lenovo recently does not have anywhere near as much heat on the palmrest. It was an issue before, but not (really, in retrospect) a deal killer. I would not let this stop me from getting one of the last ones, if I really wanted an X6x machine.

ken

[visitor]

I have 2 questions to those who have used an X31 /X32 and nowadays use an X61s or X60s:

1- If you had stayed with the X3x Thinkpad, what do you feel today that you would mostly be missing that you have in the X6xs Thinkpad ?

2- The heat issue : I couldn't bare resting my X31 1.3ghz on my belly or lap as it got too hot. Would this be an issue with models of a different processor and different clock speeds, or only a matter of design ? I had a 1.7 T42 wich was silent and cool. How does the non-tablet x61s behave in that respect say with a 1.6 clock ?

thanks for this constructive discussion.

[archer6]

I have 2 questions to those who have used an X31 /X32 and nowadays use an X61s or X60s:
1- If you had stayed with the X3x Thinkpad, what do you feel today that you would mostly be missing that you have in the X6xs Thinkpad ?
2- The heat issue : I couldn't bare resting my X31 1.3ghz on my belly or lap as it got too hot. Would this be an issue with models of a different processor and different clock speeds, or only a matter of design ? I had a 1.7 T42 wich was silent and cool. How does the non-tablet x61s behave in that respect say with a 1.6 clock ?

1) From a real world computing experience the X60s I'm currently using is much cooler than my X31 (which was a favorite, until the greatly improved X60s). The palm rests on my X60s are barely warm after hours of run time, and that in itself is a pleasant improvement. Also the bottom of the computer never gets hot. So I would say, since I spend hours on the computer, the cool running , fast and quiet X60s is stellar.

2) Performance is also noticeably improved. The X31/32 have a 400MHz bus and 333MHz memory which is further limited to just 266MHz by the memory controller. Whereas the X60s has a 667MHz bus and 667MHz memory speeds. While I have always enjoyed each of my X series models, there is nothing as satisfying in that form factor as the Low Voltage X60s (1705-24U) I have. It's simply the most functional, and fun of all the X-series in the 12.1" form factor. The keyboard is simply amazing at just 3% smaller than that of a full size T model.

Cheers...

[Ken Fox]

I have 2 questions to those who have used an X31 /X32 and nowadays use an X61s or X60s:

1- If you had stayed with the X3x Thinkpad, what do you feel today that you would mostly be missing that you have in the X6xs Thinkpad ?

Speed, smaller and lighter form factor, 3 USB ports, all of which are powered.

2- The heat issue : I couldn't bare resting my X31 1.3ghz on my belly or lap as it got too hot. Would this be an issue with models of a different processor and different clock speeds, or only a matter of design ? I had a 1.7 T42 wich was silent and cool. How does the non-tablet x61s behave in that respect say with a 1.6 clock ?

thanks for this constructive discussion.

I don't rest laptops on my belly, however the family jewels have not been severely impacted

[ssd_thinkpad]

Comparing my x60 which has around the same form factor and weight as your x31/32 to the x40 which has the form factor and weight of a x60s, I strongly vote for the x40 / x60s as the winner. You buy the x models because they are smaller and lighter. The x60s is smaller and lighter than your x31/x32 (and faster, too). If you like to use your x model as a desktop system: Note that you can connect DVI to your x3 series with mini dock dedicated gpu while your x6 models can only be inferior connected to dvi with a usb to dvi connection.

[dr_st]

You buy the x models because they are smaller and lighter. The x60s is smaller and lighter than your x31/x32 (and faster, too).

Just a few small comments:

The X32 can actually give the slower low-voltage CPUs in the X60s a run for their money, and some high-end X32 units will even beat the low-end X60s units in some tasks. Of course, the OP does not have an X32, but rather an X31, so in this scenario I am inclined to believe the X60s will win, often by a margin.

Regarding size, the X60s is indeed noticeably smaller and lighter, but only when configured with the 4-cell battery (esp. slim 4-cell). Unfortunately when configured as such, battery life will be much inferior to that of an X31/X32. Whereas with the larger 8-cell battery the computer will be bigger and feel heavier.

[makai]

1) From a real world computing experience the X60s I'm currently using is much cooler than my X31 (which was a favorite, until the greatly improved X60s). The palm rests on my X60s are barely warm after hours of run time, and that in itself is a pleasant improvement. Also the bottom of the computer never gets hot. So I would say, since I spend hours on the computer, the cool running , fast and quiet X60s is stellar.

You see... this is the kind of conflicting data I've found in my research of the x6x models. Some people experience their palm rests getting so hot they can barely stand it, and some say the palm rests barely gets hot after hours of use! Why is this? Is it model specific? I know (well, I "think" I know, since I don't know what to believe) that the Atheros cards run hotter than the Intel cards, so does it also vary that much between cards of the same chip manufacture?

I would love to buy a x6xs "knowing" I wouldn't have to worry about getting one that ran so hot I couldn't stand it. Is the only way to find out is to spend my money because its a roll of the dice?

[ssd_thinkpad]

The x60s series is cooler than the x60 series. For the x-series I think the less powerful the cpu the cooler the cpu is. The x60s archer mentiones has a comparable less powerful cpu of around 1,4 ghz.

[jdrou]

Never had a problem with palmrest heat on my X61 (Intel AGN wireless). Right side is noticably warmer than the left but not uncomfortable.

Biggest thing the X31 has over the newer models is port layout; since they moved the battery to the back on the X61 (and I believe the X60 too) all the ports are on the sides (which can interfere with using an external mouse in small spaces). There's also not enough weight in the front to hold the base down when opening it up so I need to hold the base down with one hand. Good thing you only need one hand to release the latch now.

[Ken Fox]

[Just a few small comments:

The X32 can actually give the slower low-voltage CPUs in the X60s a run for their money, and some high-end X32 units will even beat the low-end X60s units in some tasks. Of course, the OP does not have an X32, but rather an X31, so in this scenario I am inclined to believe the X60s will win, often by a margin.

Regarding size, the X60s is indeed noticeably smaller and lighter, but only when configured with the 4-cell battery (esp. slim 4-cell). Unfortunately when configured as such, battery life will be much inferior to that of an X31/X32. Whereas with the larger 8-cell battery the computer will be bigger and feel heavier.

I only got about 2 hours on the regular battery in my X32 (recently given to a local charity; 1.8ghz Pentium Mobile processor); the X61s is in the same league with its "slim battery." As to speed, I think that depends on what you are doing. I don't crunch numbers or do very many "processor intensive" things with my notebooks. In day to day usage of web, email, and office type applications, multitasked, it is my opinion that the X61s is a lot faster than my X32 ever was.

I agree that the thing is a bit unbalanced and loses its "netbook-like" form factor when sporting the 8 cell battery.

[dr_st]

I only got about 2 hours on the regular battery in my X32 (recently given to a local charity; 1.8ghz Pentium Mobile processor)

Your battery must have been very worn. An X32 with new battery can easily get 4 hours, and 5+ when on medium brightness and low activity. I could easily get 3:30-4 hours on a battery that had 75% of the original capacity (before I sold the laptop in question).

In day to day usage of web, email, and office type applications, multitasked, it is my opinion that the X61s is a lot faster than my X32 ever was.

Multitasking is probably the key. This is where dual-core CPUs really shine.

[archer6]

I have kept every X model I've purchased as they are amongst my favorites in the ThinkPad lineup. Prices of used machines are so low that my ThinkPads are worth more to me than the few hundred they might fetch in the market place. The X60s I have been talking about has the low voltage 1.5GHz Core Duo processor with 2GB of ram. It would shock you to experience just how fast it is relative to my X60 which does produce some heat. The other "first impression" that would amaze you is how cool it runs. And this is not a fluke as there are several people at my office, that upon seeing and experiencing mine, immediately ordered them. Now 3 years later they are still going strong. As we all know, there can be quite a difference between reading the tabook and actually using the machine in your real world day to day usage. I'm here to say that if you can find one of these you will be delighted, as its no crap shoot, they do indeed run cool, quite, and fast for most all tasks. If you want something much faster you should not be looking at any 12.1" X series anyway. Get yourself a T - series.

[visitor]

How much better is the X61s compared to the X60s in terms of speed and heat ? I am looking at an X61s and an X60s which are priced almost identical, and the X60s seems less used. I understand one has a core 2 duo cpu versus a core duo in the other, but how perceptible would be the performance difference ?

Also, would it be a good idea to keep two 4-cell batteries for a slimmer profile instead of a single protuding 8-cell ? I read somewhere that alternating batteries in a notebook could somehow impair them.
Other idea: would it make sense to puchase a new battery and not use it, saving it for whenever the current one needs replacement and you wouldn't have to hunt for it when it becomes rarer ?

[ssd_thinkpad]

The x61s models are all WWAN ready and have a second fan to cool the optional WWAN card. This second fan is not controllable by the software tpfancontrol. That means, the x61s are generally somewhat louder than the x60s. The x60s are not all WWAN ready. The core 2 duo cpu seems to be around 10 % faster than a core duo model and the heat is around the same. The x61s are said to be hotter, that's possible to a different motherboard / bios but I do not know more about that. When not using batteries, they age. I'd just try the small battery which will give you around 4-5 hours and if needed, buy an additional large one.