IBM ThinkPad 560X and IDE Compact flash

[ThinkPad560X]

I replaced my IDE Hard Disk Drive 2.3GB with a 16GB Compact flash IDE Adapter and card, and reput Windows XP Home Edition back on it. It loads fine and loads abit faster but the Windows is kinda laggy. when I click START It takes about 3-5sec to pop up and click on a icon the same. As with the Hard Disk Drive It ran faster than this.

I Upgrade to Solid State because of the Hard Drive crashes and clickings and faster load.
My ThinkPad features: IBM ThinkPad 560X 2640-70U, Intel Pentium MMX I 233MHz, 160MB RAM, 16GB Compact flash card. Soon to upgrade to 160GB Compact flash. Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 3.

Is a Compact flash card the same as a real Solid State hard Drive and load the same?
I figured to get the compact flash because it was alot cheaper than the SSD that is $300/400.

[Xenomorph]

Woah. First off, I have a 560X. I thought the max RAM was 96 Megs (32 Megs onboard + 64 Meg DIMM).
How can I tell if my system works with 160 Megs? The 96 Meg limitation has really held back the system (I run Windows 2000 on it). With 160 Megs, I may put XP on it!

Second, a Compact Flash card is NO WHERE near what an SSD is.

Here are some random numbers that I'm guessing may be close to actual speeds based on stuff I've used before:

Cheap SSD = 30 to 100MB/sec
Expensive SSD = 80 to 300 MB/sec
Older Hard Drive = 20 to 40 MB/sec
Newer Hard Drive = 30 to 100 MB/sec

Compact Flash = 500KB to 10 MB/sec write (slow!), up to 20 MB/sec read (closer to speed of slower hard drives).

Did the package for the Compact Flash list the speed of the device?

An SDD costs a ton because it uses FAST flash memory. Way faster than Compact Flash, SD Cards, USB sticks, etc.

You're going to take a performance hit using a Compact Flash card for your primary drive.

[ThinkPad560X]

The RAM it takes is the same as my IBM ThinkPad 380Z and its max is 160MB aswell. 128MB PC-100 RAM type. Also you may need to update the bios. I updated all my IBM ThinkPads bios to the highest I could find to download from lenovo.com
560X brings it to the 1999 as the highest bios version. My type is IBM ThinkPad 560X 2640-70U

[ThinkPad560X]

The RAM it takes is the same as my IBM ThinkPad 380Z and its max is 160MB aswell. 128MB PC-100 RAM type. Also you may need to update the bios. I updated all my IBM ThinkPads bios to the highest I could find to download from lenovo.com
560X brings it to the 1999 as the highest bios version. My type is IBM ThinkPad 560X 2640-70U

[Xenomorph]

I updated the BIOS in 2005, so I'm pretty sure I have the latest from 1999 as well.

My 560X is also a 2640-70U

160 Megs of RAM would have REALLY helped. I didn't know I could load it with that.

Even though this thing says "1997" on the bottom, I was using it in College in 2006. A Pentium MMX 233 MHz was enough to run anything. The lack of RAM is what really hurt it, though.

Windows 2000 SP4
4.x Gig HDD
Office XP
Opera 8.x
Miranda IM

I would use Word and take notes while the teacher was talking.

With just 96 Megs of RAM, things were painful. I believe after a fresh boot, the system would already be using 80+ Megs, so by the time I opened one program the system was already swapping a ton.
I had Windows 98SE on it for a while, but the stability wasn't so good. I think I got several blue screens from the sound drivers.

Getting a blue screen and having to reboot in the middle of class when the teacher is talking is NOT good. I missed out on notes and had to use a pen and paper again. So, out went Windows 98SE (which ran fine), and on went Windows 2000, which really needs at least 128 Megs RAM.

I had a T23 at home, but I would still use the 560X. It was just so tiny and quiet, and I knew replacement parts would be cheap if I damaged it bringing it everywhere with me.

Do you have any information on a specific 128 Meg chip I could get? I checked eBay for 128 Meg EDO, and I swear I only saw stuff listed for $70 or so. That costs more than a 560X system.

[ThinkPad560X]

The RAM type is PC-100 that is takes. same as my ThinkPad 380Z Should be cheap everywhere, since all laptops today use DDR2 and now moving to DDR3. I would like if my 560X ran 512MB max, never tryed one in it tho.
Windows XP Home Edition runs fine on my 560X but it is slow since I replaced the Hard Disk Drive with a Compact Flash 16GB IDE Adapter. Because I would always have problems of the disk drives clicking and then not reading. So may get a Real Solid State hard Drive when they come down in price. 160GB is like $300-400 too much for a Hard Drive . I could buy a new ThinkPad SL series for that much. But should install Windows XP on it and all the drivers will self install but the ThinkPad System Utilty witch can be downloaded from lenovo.com I tryed to install the battery Maximizer like what my T41 has. Shows the Green battery % level on the start bar below but doesn't support on 560 series.
My very first IBM ThinkPad 560 basic only had 72MB RAM with Intel Pentium I 120MHz and it ran really good with XP Home Edition. no longer have it tho, sold because it wouldn't read the PCMCIA WiFi or USB 2.0 card types, only older PCMCIA's and it had no USB port like the 560X has. You can view it at www.patbry.weebly.com for installment of ThinkPads hardware.

[Xenomorph]

I have stacks of PC66 and PC100 RAM.

The 560X takes 60ns EDO RAM.
PC66/PC100 RAM doesn't work in it from what I've read.

And the 128 Meg EDO RAM is rare and expensive.

How did you get PC100 RAM to work in your 560X???

[ThinkPad560X]

I don't know I just inserted it and it load to XP and right clicked my computer and it said RAM 160MB I'll check the type again.

[Xenomorph]

I don't know I just inserted it and it load to XP and right clicked my computer and it said RAM 160MB I'll check the type again.

Where did you get it from???

Because the 128 Meg EDO sticks are rare and expensive, and that's pretty neat if you just found one laying around.

[ThinkPad560X]

I think it came with my 380Z if not then from my ThinkPad i1200.

[Xenomorph]

I think it came with my 380Z if not then from my ThinkPad i1200.

Well, if you ever decide to get rid of it, I'll take it.

If not, hold on to it. The 128 Meg EDO chips are worth a lot (at least to those who still bother with the older systems).

[Xenomorph]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but with the Netbook (and iPad) craze, I felt like digging out my old 560X to play with again.

I found some 128MB EDO sticks on eBay for a bit cheaper than I remember.

$45 shipped for the "Dell Latitude" part 8038E, KTD-CP/128 (what I've read works with the 560X). So, I broke down and ordered it.

I also ordered an 8 GB Compact Flash card (266X speed), along with a 2.5" CF to IDE adapter for about $29 total. Up to 40 MB/sec read, unknown write speed (10-20 megs maybe).

Finally, I ordered a new CMOS battery ($1.80 shipped), since my system was asking for the time again.

It's a lot of money to spend on what may be a 13 year-old computer, and I don't even know if all the parts work (I haven't received them yet).

The super-old battery at first wouldn't hold a charge, but after multiple inserts and removals while powered on, eventually it started charging again. I'm not sure how long it will last. Maybe 1 minute, maybe 5, maybe 30 minutes. It at least does hold a charge, so no worries about a power outage, and no constantly blinking orange LED on the top of the system.

So, if this does all work, what OS should I use?
I got so tired of the poor performance of Windows 2000 w/ 96 Megs RAM that I put Windows 98SE back on it.

The last couple of installs of Windows involved me moving files to the system with a Zip Drive. This time I used a USB thumbdrive under DOS. It surprisingly worked well, as I've never used USB under DOS before (as far as I can remember).

With 160 Megs RAM, should I try Windows XP? That would probably give me the most functionality, including support for Wireless (I have an 802.11 N card waiting for it).

[ThinkPad560X]

I still use my ThinkPad 560X and it has a IDE compact flash card 16GB running Windows XP Home Edition on it with 160MB RAM "128MB RAM Stick" battery holds a charge for an hour and still runs fine with the compact flash but kinda slow. from what I heard there are diffrent speeds to the compact flash cards, So I may have a slow one.

[Xenomorph]

CompactFlash cards vary in speed GREATLY compared to each other.

Some may work at a few K to a few Megs a second. Many on eBay are cheap knockoffs that may only do under 20 or even 10 Megs a second.

"266X" or higher is recommended if you want to replace a hard drive, as those can do 40 MB/sec reads.
A 400X CF card can do 60MB/sec, and a 667X CF can do 100 MB/sec. That is faster than a lot of "real" hard drives.

Of course, the price goes WAY up, really quick. A 300X card was more than I wanted to spend. The 266X was fair, and anything cheaper would be too slow.

[ThinkPad560X]

I'd really like to get a Real "Solid State Drive" for my 560X and basically all my ThinkPads. but there too much right now. A 32GB is $499 and up. And they all need an IDE type aswell. I think they make a SATA adapter to switch IDE SATA drives to IDE plug in.

[Xenomorph]

Check Newegg.com for prices.

8GB SLC SSD, IDE, $99
16GB SLC SSD, IDE, $169

32GB MLC SSD, IDE, $135
64GB MLC SSD, IDE, $195

It looks like those MLC drives are slower than a 266X CompactFlash card as well. Something to keep in mind. So a "real" Solid State Drive could still be slower than a cheaper CF.

And no, I don't think you're going to find any IDE to SATA adapters.

Just look for either a SATA SSD or IDE (PATA) SSD drive.

[Xenomorph]

My 128 Meg stick of EDO came in.

I popped it in and my 560X booted right up with 160 Megs. I did a full pass with Memtest86+ 4.00, and it tested fine!

Still waiting on the CF card and adapter.

[TP380Z]

If you're still using W98SE, did you find that going from 96 MB of RAM to 160 MB made a noticeable improvement in performance?

[Xenomorph]

I actually haven't booted Windows 98SE since getting the RAM.

I've had the system apart. New keyboard, new RAM, new CF card, etc. I'm just waiting for the adapter to show up so I can actually install the CF card.

In the mean time, I've been messing with DSL Linux, Puppy Linux, and Ubuntu. I've been booting DOS off a Floppy and then using LINLD.COM to boot Linux off a USB thumbdrive (4 Gig).

DSL Linux kept loading messed up displays.
Puppy Linux loaded up and even detected WiFi networks. It couldn't connect to any.
Ubuntu ran out of RAM or something.

I'm trying out an install of Windows XP now on a 60 Gig hard drive. The system detected and formatted it as just 8 Gigs.

[ThinkPad560X]

Just to remind you if installing the Compact flash adapter in the ThinkPad 560X. Plug it in upside down. "The card adapter facing down" Heres information on it. http://patbry.weebly.com/hard-drive.html

[Xenomorph]

Now this is weird...

I had the RAM at 160 Megs. I did a full Memtest86+ run with no errors. So the RAM seems to work fine.

Windows XP would not install.
The text portion would finish fine, but as soon as the graphical part of the install was supposed to start, that is when the problems started.

I'd sometimes just get a black screen instead of the install screen. Sometimes I'd get corrupted graphics. Sometimes I'd get a BSOD with a random error.

I dropped back to 96 Megs, and the graphical install started right up.

So I'm wondering a few things:

- Is the RAM bad? (then why did it pass Memtest86+?)
- Is something messed up with the platform (since it doesn't really "support" 160 Megs)
- Is something in XP "aware" of the 560X and screws up with something more than the "max" RAM?

Edit:

And after the install finished, I bumped it back up to 160 Megs RAM and things still seem Ok.

[ThinkPad560X]

Also I had a hard time having Windows XP on the 560X/380Z HDD Partition It would't read NTFS Partitions, only FAT32 So I just got two 20GB HDD for them both. can go all the way up to 30GB until Windows XP makes you format with only NTFS.

[Xenomorph]

I had no issue with NTFS before. When I had Windows 2000 installed, I was using NTFS. However, I'm still using FAT32 on the system, hoping for better speeds.

I've been playing with this some more.

With 160 Megs RAM installed:

XP install couldn't finish (display would go out). I had to drop back to 96 Megs to finish XP install.
Win98SE couldn't boot (froze with corrupted display). So no Windows 98 SE *at all* with 160 Megs RAM.
DSL Linux had corrupted display.

Puppy Linux worked, and XP worked fine after the install was finished.

So something may be up with how the system handles 160 Megs.

CF to IDE adapter I'm using:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812186050
~$18 shipped
"SYBA SY-IDE2CF-NB25 Ultra IDE to Compact Flash Adapter - Retail"

CF card I used:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820220460
~$32 shipped
(although I got mine for $28 shipped from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002YGTS10)
"Patriot Signature 8 GB 266x CompactFlash Memory Card PSF8G266CF"

Something to note:

The ThinkPad 560X uses some non-standard IDE cable, and it has just 40 wires. This limits any drive to ATA/33 maximum.
It doesn't matter how fast your drive is, you will never get past ~33 MB/sec.


Original hard drive:
IBM, 4 Gigs, 4200 RPM, UDMA2

New drive:
Patriot, 8 Gigs, "266X" (40 MB/sec max reads), UDMA5 (limited to UDMA2 by the IDE connection)

HD Tach 2.70 numbers:

Old:
Random Access Times: 21.4 ms
Random Read Speed Average: 5.3 MB/sec

New:
Random Access Times: 0.9 ms
Random Read Speed Average: 21.4 MB/sec

A little better, right?

I'm thinking I should have got a different CF to IDE adapter. One that supports two CF cards in a Master / Slave configuration.

My 8 Gig card as master plus a cheaper 4 Gig card as slave for the page file and other misc stuff would be nice. My "8 Gig" card *barely* has 7.1 Gigs of usable space. A full install of XP + page file + updates (including .Net stuff) and Office 2003 really fill things out. Having another 2-4 gigs of breathing room would help out.

You know that animated Windows XP startup logo? Where the blue thing scrolls over and over? It scrolls just 3 times before XP finishes loading. It's made things a lot quicker.

So, now with 160 Megs RAM and a CF "SSD", the CPU is easily the biggest limiting factor. I still can't use Firefox without major slowdown. Opera works fine.

I was showing my wife how fun the system is now. She didn't care, but I at least had to show someone how an old system could be so nice.

- Brand new keyboard. I ordered it ~four years ago. It had been sitting unused somewhere for many years, and it sat in a box at my place for many years. I figured it was time to use it. The keys all work perfectly (and are clean), and the mouse buttons are perfectly responsive.
- Rubbing alcohol to clean the entire system.
- Perfect plastic (no scratches, scuffs, cracks)
- Perfect LCD. No dead pixels.
- Working batteries that still hold a charge (after 13 years!)
- Totally silent. No fans. No hard drive. No buzzing, grinding, or humming.
- Works great with an 802.11 N card plugged in.
- The layout of the Keyboard is great. Everything feels fine, and the insert/home/pageUp/pageDown/etc keys are all arranged like a real Desktop keyboard. Many laptops have HORRID layouts.

[Raceboy]

The issue with 560X and 160MB of RAM is most likely related to the fact that 560X uses 430TX chipset which supports maximum of 128MB RAM offically and max cacheable area is mere 64MB.
It's a wonder that it recognizes this amount of RAM.

Very glad to hear that there are still guys aout there that like to mess with older ThinkPads

[TTA]

I don't know if any of you are interested, I THINK the 560X uses that funky square chip, if you 233MHz guys are interested i have a 300MHz one.

[TP380Z]

What's involved with exchanging it with the 233 MHz chip in a 380Z?

[TTA]

What's involved with exchanging it with the 233 MHz chip in a 380Z?

different chip, been a while since I changed a 380Z but I don't think it's buried like a 770 or 760. (I havent worked on these older machines in YEARS)
The 560X chip I'm talking about is a SL32N google it you'll see pictures of it. funky little chip only used in the later 560's and maybe one or two Compaq's. Seems to me Intel only made it in two speeds and gave up on it real quick.

[Raceboy]

This miniCartridge package PII is available to 400MHz speeds, I was researching them a bit when I had 560Z. Wanted to upgrade but 366MHz ones were more readily available.

[TTA]

This miniCartridge package PII is available to 400MHz speeds, I was researching them a bit when I had 560Z. Wanted to upgrade but 366MHz ones were more readily available.

yea I looked too, I never saw one over 300MHz personally. Learn something new every day

[Raceboy]

Forgot to add, but on 560X you can't upgrade CPU because it is soldered to the system board like on 560 and 560E.

Upgrade is possible only in 560Z which has miniCartridge PII.

For example, 366 MHz version of miniCartridge PII is SL36Z, 400MHz version is SL3JW.