Hm... what am I getting into?

[LegendaryKA8]

Well, here it goes again. I'm a long-time lurker and not very frequent poster, but you guys are a very good resource for Thinkpad info. My story begins about two years ago... I purchased a T40 for a pretty hefty price and ended up having it borked out not even six months later with the infamous GPU issue. I was pretty bummed out as it was an awesome replacement to my T21(which I'm typing this up on now). I attempted to reflow it myself a few months down hte line but messed up the motherboard; right now it's sitting in pieces in my basement.

I now have a Dell XPS M1730... an extremely powerful rig capable of even snickering at Crysis due to its prodigious hardware. I bought that monster for school; something capable of heavy gaming, virtual machines, and all of that fun stuff. However, I really need to supplement it with something more portable, and my T21 just isn't going to be able to serve my needs down the road. I missed out on a really well-priced T60, and am now looking at T4x machines with a bit of a leery eye. I spotted this on my local Craigslist, and the seller turned out to be an acquaintance of mine, and is pretty trustworthy.

I'm looking at his 14" T41(2379-DJU), upgraded to a 1.8 Pentium M, 60GB HDD(will be changed out for a spare 100GB 7200RPM I've got hanging around), 1.5GB RAM, 32MB GPU, and five six-cell batteries. The one from my old T40 also holds a charge, so I'd be very well-set in the battery department. I chatted with him online tonight, and he said that there is absolutely no sign of GPU issues on this machine(he apparently had a T40 that went the same way), and that he upgraded to the long fan setup right after he bought the system in the first place. The price is right, and I'm mighty tempted.

Firstly, he's offering the T41 for $250, which is a pretty decent price as far as I can tell... especially with all those extra batteries. Am I correct in assuming that the 1.8 is the quickest processor this can be equipped with? I'm also a little worried about the GPU issue, but I'm assuming that the 'long fan' will at least help with the issue a little bit. Now that I know there are relatively inexpensive, reliable reflowing services available I'm a little less leery about getting another one, but would this be a good buy?

The T41 would be mostly used for Internet, word processing, and the occasional DVD. I won't really be doing any gaming on it as I have the XPS, but I do recall running Morrowind on my old T40... anyone care to chime in on just what the MR9000 will handle, just out of curiosity? I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on this as it's local and I could really use something that's a bit more potent than my T21... should I bite?

[sktn77a]

My read of the situation is that the T40's has less of an issue with the GPU than the T41 and T42, probably because of the timing of the RoHS introduction. Having said that, I've had different problems with all my T4x computers. You may or may not have an issue with the T41 (I think that we're a very non-representative sample on this forum). If you want a portable for a reasonable price, get an X31/X32. If you need the larger screen and DVD drive then it's the T4x (i'm guessing the T6x are a little more than you want to pay).

Having said all that, and to answer your questions:

1. The T41 can take up to a 2.1GHz P M 765 CPU but it get's quite hot! I wouldn't go over 2.0GHz and I wouldn't upgrade a 1.8 to a 2.0.

2. Five batteries with only 10Wh of charge left aren't worth a whole lot! Check the remaining charge capacity if they're over 35Wh they're OK (I doubt they will be), otherwise don't figure them into the cost.

3. I don't think the long fan will help much with the GPU issue - if you're going to be unlucky then you're going to be unlucky!

$250 isn't bad if the computer is in good condition and it has a known history. You could probably get cheaper on here, craigslist or e-bay but you never know what you're getting. If it does crap out on you, the re-flows look like they're in the range of $50 - $100 now, which ain't bad! And if you get a replacement mobo for your T40, you'll have a backup computer (it's nice having several of the same type of computer - you can swap out parts when needed).

Good luck!

[sjthinkpader]

Definitely less use will leave a machine with more service life in terms of thermal cycles. Since on/off cycles and thermal cycles are not measured, it is hard to judge how many cycles the machine had used and how many are remaining. Thus machines with more visible wear should be avoided.

Less megahertz means it will ran cooler which is a good thing. Putting a CPU higher than 1.8Ghz in T4x just doesn't make sense.

It is expected that T43 have more robust soldering technique than earlier versions. But the 533Mhz FSB does cause temperature to ramp much more sharply than 400Mhz FSB T42, T41s.

I set Power Manager to "Adaptive" in all my machines so they are mostly operating at 600-800Mhz until applications place more demand on performance, which is rare in day to day use other than gaming. So far this strategy seemed to work as I had not experienced any GPU failures in my care.

[poshgeordie]

Keith - I'm interested in you saying you'd seen somewhere that T40's suffer less from the GPU problems than the other flavours.

I'll have to start a database of which T4x's I get in for reflowing but today for example I had enquires for T40, T41 and sent out a T40 and a T42!
I've not yet had an ATI type T43/P (though I think there's one in the offing) and of course no Intel chipped T43's (I've had an Nvidia GPU on one of those Rolf Harris wobble board-like Toshiba's BTW!)

I get the 'impression' that I'm doing more T40's than any other but I don't think there's a lot in it.
GPU chip-wise I'd say I'm getting 80% + 7500 chips. The rest are mainly FireGL's from t4x/P's.

Re the best performing CPU the 1.7GHz Dothan is a fantastic chip and cheap to buy too, and with a decent amount of memory is hard to beat against even the maximum (and ridiculously expensive) 2.1GHz CPU.

[killer]

You said, "I've had an Nvidia GPU on one of those Rolf Harris wobble board-like Toshiba's BTW!".

I wonder how many people on here will have heard of Rolf Harris and his wobble board?
Anyone able to post Rolf's version of Stairway to Heaven on this site will win several pints of real ale from me. The rules are that the prize has to be served in the Tichborne Arms (motto: Pugna Pro Patria) at a mutually agreed time.

[sktn77a]

Well, my personal experience is limited to 1 T40, 1 T41 and 2 T42s. The T40 hasn't had the problem, The T41 has and 1 T42 have (the other T42 is only 2 years old so I don't think I can count that one). But in seeing the posts on this board over the years (I'm a veteran from the original thinkpads.com, 600E days, ca. 1999), I haven't seen many T40s with the problem but I've seen many, many, posts on T41s and T42s. When you look at the introduction of RoHS mobos, it occuured at the end of 2003, right at the time the T40 was handing over to the T41. Given that part of the problem is the flexible base of the T4x, I'm not surprised some T40s have failed but the prevalence definitely appears to be with the T41 and T42. I think if people like yourself and Jamiphar could post your repair numbers, that would be great!

And the less said about Rolf Harris, the better......................

[poshgeordie]

You said, "I've had an Nvidia GPU on one of those Rolf Harris wobble board-like Toshiba's BTW!".

I wonder how many people on here will have heard of Rolf Harris and his wobble board?
Anyone able to post Rolf's version of Stairway to Heaven on this site will win several pints of real ale from me. The rules are that the prize has to be served in the Tichborne Arms (motto: Pugna Pro Patria) at a mutually agreed time.

I'm claiming that pint and especially at a pub with that motto (I'll fight to get anywhere for a drink off you M8!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPOIy4Kb ... re=related

This link's even better coz it's got some of Rolf's paintings and 'lyrics' too!!
Reckon I should have a bitter named after me for that...

And you can have Bohemian Rapsody too for an extra couple of pints in straight glasses

[killer]

Keith,

You might not know that Rolf advertised and used the 'Stylophone' in the 1960s (before Thinkpads had been invented). The Stylophone was used by David Bowie to compose 'Space Oddity'. (... Is there life on Mars ...)

Had it not been for Rolf then where would we be in the list of greatest hits?

Also, Rolf's performace of 'Jake the Peg' (with his extra leg) caused an amazing reception from disabled children at a concert. Link to him doing the routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-itkO9ia8

Sometimes there is more to the man than meets the eye.

[killer]

@poshgeordie: Good stuff! I look forward to seeing you in the Arms when it suits you. I am a man after my word and look forward to bending the elbow.

[poshgeordie]

And the less said about Rolf Harris, the better......................

Couldn't resist that!

I appreciate what you're saying and it's a fair point.

The ROHS changeover to lead free solder has been disasterous in many ways, least of all because it don't work properly!

I had to resolder some joints on the main circuit board of my dishwasher a couple of days ago because the 'what they call solder' joints had 'blown' due to the current going through them and the thermal cycles. Wouldn't have happened in the good old days!

And look at the Apple G4 regulator chip problem (switch on with no display and the fan runs continuously at full speed) - again due to two tiny pins on the chip which 'blow' for the same reason.

I'll have to check the dates of the boards as well as the type - could be very interesting this...

[LegendaryKA8]

Excellent... thanks for the quick replies! This has definitely alleviated some of my trepidation of being a prospective T4x owner. Also found out some info about my previous T40, as it had been manufactured in Sept. '03.. probably one affected by this RoHS deal.

Nick, you mentioned that the majority of T4x GPU failures you have redone were MR7500s? Do you suspect this as most T4xs had that particular GPU versus the MR9000, or something else? I've also been taking a look towards getting a FireGL mobo if this ever goes south. Also, how effective is reflowing the GPU? Are repaired units generally more robust than the ones that may go south? I realize that the BGA arrangement itself is going to have some issues, but am just wondering if reflowing is a decent permanent solution. I take it that reflowing means 'reusing' the original solder on the GPU, and that reballing entails removing the GPU and using entirely new solder balls, right? If I start developing this issue, I may just end up going for the 128MB FireGL GPU and going from there... if that ended up going south, I'd just have that one reflowed.

Good to know about the processor, too. I'm assuming the 1.8 Dothan and 1.5GB RAM will be a decent upgrade from my old unit's 1.5 Banias and 256MB RAM... and that setup was a decent bit more potent than my T21 is currently. Either way, I'm definitely excited to be picking this guy up tomorrow night.

[sktn77a]

Some people epoxy the GPU to the mobo after reflowing/reballing. Seems to help but I think you'd be SOL if it failed again (I believe the later X3x and T42s had this from the factory). RoHS, heat and mobo flex are probably all contributing factors to the flaw in the T4x. But pick up a 14" 4:3 T61 and it weighs a ton compared to a T4x! You pays your money,you takes your choice!

And Nick...... 'Fraid to confess I'm a Geordie too - from Sunderland (got the scars to prove it)! Saw the light and fled to the good ol' US of A thirty years ago!

[poshgeordie]

I do bond chips so that mechanically the GPU and motherboard become one item.
It took a lot of research to find an adhesive which sets hard and is mechanically stable at temperature but would allow the chip to be removed if necessary - apologies for sounding obtuse!

Sunderland eh? Well I see you're doing just about as well as the Magpies - maybe see you in the second division

[sktn77a]

[LegendaryKA8]

Well, I decided to take the plunge yesterday morning, and now am typing this on my new T41. With the 100GB 7200RPM HDD it's pretty snappy(the RAM and the 1.8Ghz M don't hurt, either), and I'm overall pretty happy with it. I do wish I had looked on here for one, however... it looks as if this machine experienced a very nasty drop sometime during its life. I replaced the bottom tray and PC Card reader with the one from my T40, but may need a palmrest here in short order.... other than that it seems to work just fine.

The batteries are a mixed bag. One carries nearly a full charge(45Wh), but the rest carry between 17-20Wh. They'll work for now, but I'll be picking up an Ultrabay battery, a 9-cell or two, and a 1GB stick of RAM in the near future. I'm also considering the FireGL motherboard, and I may or may not wait 'till this one goes south to do so. This ended up being the 32MB MR7500 card... same as the one that failed on my T40. Ah, well. This time if it breaks, I'll fix it.

[poshgeordie]

It doesn't get much better than that spec for a T41 - and with that 7200 drive too - I'm envious!