Providing Serial Number (if asked) when Selling Online?

[eecon]

I've run across some postings here (using the search function) advising never to give out the S/N when placing your personal thinkpad for sale online. This has made me curious.

Displaying it right on the auction page may be one thing, but if someone emails and asks for the S/N to verify warranty and legal status, it would seem to me that I am ethically obligated to provide that info within a private email to the person inquiring (if I truly want to sell the item). Otherwise, it would seem (at least to some) that I was was trying to hide something about the status of the thinkpad I was trying to sell.

I have satisfactorily purchased several thinkpads off eBay where the sellers either had the S/N posted in the auction page or gladly provided it to me privately upon my inquiry. Others, have dismissed my requests for a S/N with terse replies like "you get the S/N when you receive the thinkpad" etc. (sellers out of the NYC/NJ area seem to be the most secretive).

Would some please explain to me why the secrecy regarding serial numbers in some cases and "no problem" in other cases?

Thanks

[rkawakami]

The theory goes that by providing the serial number, somebody can maliciously attempt to, a) register the system in their name, b) report to the authorities that that particular system was stolen (from them), and c) give the eventual owner some headaches by doing these things. I guess it all depends on the seller's paranoia or possible prior knowledge of the ownership history of the system; in other words, they may have good reason to believe that the system is "hot" and giving out the serial number could conceivably prove that fact to the buyer. Don't know about the proximity to NY/NJ which might cause those eBay (?) sellers to decline your request, but I've had the same conversation with several eBay sellers and received exactly those words ("you'll see the S/N when you get the system"). Others have said that the system was already packed up and thus they could not provide that and other information about the laptop.

I used to also ask for the S/N awhile ago but after IBM purged their warranty database of older systems (like the ones I typically purchase), that information is not as important or useful any more. For the systems which are still in warranty, or could possibly be due to their recent age, it is useful to get that serial number and check online for it's warranty status and also to confirm the TYPE number of the system.

[ajkula66]

Let's not forget that with a serial number from a machine that is in warranty, you can order the replacement parts from IBM and never send the supposedly defective ones back which will blacklist the unit and strip it off of any warranty entitlement ad infinitum...so I'm one of the people who absolutely NEVER provide a serial, unless I know you from this forum, or the Lenovo one. Honestly, I've only had one inquiry over a serial number for all the ThinkPads that I've sold on this forum.

On another note, I never ask the seller to provide the serial either...and am weary of purchasing machines where the serial had been posted in the ad, especially when dealing with fleabay...

My experiences only.

[eecon]

Okay .... So how does one check that a ThinkPad is not stolen before buying from a stranger?

Also .... If I have a ThinkPad registered in my name and someone takes its S/N and attempts to re-register it in their name or buy parts in their name, doesn't IBM/Lenovo first contact the current registered owner?

[ajkula66]

@eecon:

You can always call IBM and politely ask whether the machine with such and such serial number would be serviced if sent in for repair. Do bear in mind that they will NOT tell you whether the machine has been reported stolen.

Also, don't blame IBM/Lenovo for not contacting owners in the scenario that you've come up with. Half of the owners never bother registering in the first place. Secondly, it's up to YOU (or any other owner) to protect your machine and its serial number, not up to IBM/Lenovo to check whether you've sold the unit to Joseph Schmoe or Linda Blow...that's why the warranty follows the serial, and not the owner...

[eecon]

@eecon:

You can always call IBM and politely ask whether the machine with such and such serial number would be serviced if sent in for repair. Do bear in mind that they will NOT tell you whether the machine has been reported stolen....

Please explain how I can do that if the seller refuses to devulge the S/N prior to the sale?

[ajkula66]

@eecon:

The choice, as always, ultimately belongs to the buyer...gamble on eBay/Craiglist where the seller may or may not provide you with a serial, or buy a machine from a known source for a few bucks more but with peace of mind included with the purchase...unless you're looking for an extremely rare item-S30/31 or 240Z come to mind-there's a plethora of ThinkPad suppliers...

Tracking of serial numbers would involve headaches as it does with other manufacturers who follow the principle that you're thinking so highly of...ever tried transferring a valid HP warranty? I have. Never again. On the other side of the coin, I buy and sell more ThinkPads in one month than most people get to see in a lifetime and have never bought a stolen one...

The bottom line is that there is no substitute for common sense...

[rkawakami]

This might be a little OT, but having just experienced a stolen iPod out of my daughter's Jeep this evening (a passenger window smash-and-grab), I can tell you that it appears that Apple does not track their equipment like you would think they could:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2526

During my research I turned up this interesting Dateline story from two years ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20078671/

[eecon]

On the other side of the coin, I buy and sell more ThinkPads in one month than most people get to see in a lifetime and have never bought a stolen one......

I guess if you say so then it must be true.

[TJMacGyver]

Let's not forget that with a serial number from a machine that is in warranty, you can order the replacement parts from IBM and never send the supposedly defective ones back which will blacklist the unit and strip it off of any warranty entitlement ad infinitum...

It may be different in Denmark, but I'm quite sure that we aren't required to return the defective parts.
I DO get a return label for the box, but there's also a letter that explains how it can help Lenovo if I return the defective part, but it also says that I don't have to send it back.
I don't think that I have ever returned a defective part, and I have never had any of my machines blacklisted or had any problems with warranty service afterwards.

[ajkula66]

@TJMacGyver:

I'll admit that I'm absolutely clueless about local practices in Denmark. The only thing that you're not supposed to return around here is a battery that had died within the warranty period, or is subject to a recall.

@eecon:

The picture that you've sarcastically painted in your last post in this thread would be extremely appropriate for a person that can't smell a shady deal when is confronted with one. However, I'm quite certain that you've got enough street smarts not to belong into that category...

[RealBlackStuff]

Does this mean (hypothetically) that if you would get/buy a machine with parts missing, and that machine is still under warranty, you could email/call Lenovo and ask them to send you the missing parts, while claiming they are defective?

[Harryc]

I'm not sure what folks are talking about with not having to return repair parts to Lenovo. Every time I've gotten one mailed to me it arrived with a ship label to return the used part. I seem to recall reading about being billed if the part was not returned, but don't recall where.

[eecon]

I'm not sure what folks are talking about with not having to return repair parts to Lenovo. Every time I've gotten one mailed to me it arrived with a ship label to return the used part. I seem to recall reading about being billed if the part was not returned, but don't recall where.

Several years ago, IBM (and then again Lenovo last year) sent me replacement power adapters under warranty and they specifically asked not to return the old ones (that were running noisy).

[mpcook]

I'm not sure what folks are talking about with not having to return repair parts to Lenovo. Every time I've gotten one mailed to me it arrived with a ship label to return the used part. I seem to recall reading about being billed if the part was not returned, but don't recall where.

I've had about 4 CDRW drives and a keyboard sent as replacement under warranty, instructions always requested the old returns under threat of being charged. I don't know if they really would charge, but I always complied with the prepaid return label.

Mike

[eecon]

I've had about 4 CDRW drives and a keyboard sent as replacement under warranty, instructions always requested the old returns under threat of being charged. I don't know if they really would charge, but I always complied with the prepaid return label.

It probably depends on the type of part as to whether they want it back or not.

[zenit]

its not like serial numbers are hard to come by. there are always a ton up on ebay in descriptions or you can just go to lenovo outlet web site and get a bunch from there. so if somebody wanted to steal some numbers for shady business, it would be much easier than contacting random people and leaving all kinds of traces. Personally i would not buy a computer from anybody who would not provide me with serial number to verify accuracy of advertised parts.

[eecon]

its not like serial numbers are hard to come by. there are always a ton up on ebay in descriptions or you can just go to lenovo outlet web site and get a bunch from there. so if somebody wanted to steal some numbers for shady business, it would be much easier than contacting random people and leaving all kinds of traces. Personally i would not buy a computer from anybody who would not provide me with serial number to verify accuracy of advertised parts.

I spoke today by phone with several Lenovo representatives in Atlanta, GA USA and was told that if my S/N is still under warranty and is properly registered (i.e. the S/N is associated with my name ... and this happens automatically when buying from Lenovo Direct, Lenovo Educational/Business Direct Sales, or if you order a Warranty Extension, etc), then another person could not falsely transfer ownership of that unit using a different name or even order parts. Lenovo would instead play along and take the order so as to gather the personal information from the party trying to gain ownership or order parts and then attempt to notify the current registered owner and/or the authorities. Lenovo advised that devious people will not likely get very far as long as your machine is registered in your name and the devious party has only a serial number (but not your name and address).

This is why, I believe, it is important that your machine is properly registered with Lenovo, especially while under warranty. I asked about what to do if I ever sell a laptop that is registered under my name with warranty still remaining and was advised to notify Lenovo that I no longer own the machine and to provide the name of the purchasing party. Furthermore, if the machine is ever stolen, I was advised to notify both the police and Lenovo.

However, there are cases where Lenovo acknowledged that a new or nearly new machine may never have been registered with Lenovo (like a purchase from an online reseller or liquidator), and those situations are where a lone S/N could theoretically be used to falsely register a machine or order parts. Thus, I suspect that such online resellers or liquidators may be justified in their caution and reluctance to share the full S/N.

The bottom line is (as I understand it):

If you are an individual or company with a machine to sell online that is properly registered in your name, then providing a S/N if requested by an interested party could do little harm and actually help facilitate the sale.

Finally, I realize not everyone wants to register their machines with manufactures for various reasons (most probably due to their undergound occupations, or an understandable desire not to be tracked by their ex-wives' lawyers seeking child support, etc) .... so my thoughts above may not be suitable for everyone.

[ajkula66]

eecon wrote (amongst other things):

This is why, I believe, it is important that your machine is properly registered with Lenovo, especially while under warranty. I asked about what to do if I ever sell a laptop that is registered under my name with warranty still remaining and was advised to notify Lenovo that I no longer own the machine and to provide the name of the purchasing party.

Great story that is, unfortunately, in conflict with reality...

a) A T43p that was owned (and extended warranty on it purchased) by myself is now being serviced on another continent, although I've never notified Lenovo here or there that I had sold the machine.This is not the only case that I'm aware of, just the most recent one.

b) On dozens of occasions I've ordered parts for the machines that were in my possession, but not previously registered in my name, and was NEVER asked where I got them from, nor was I ever denied parts. Obviously, we're discussing ThinkPads within the warranty period here. The same goes for ThinkPads that were sent to EzServ for a variety of repairs, usually planar or LCD replacements. No questions, ever.

c) On Lenovo keeping track of stuff...I currently own four machines that were liquidated by Lenovo months ago, but are still being shown on the warranty page as "Lenovo's internal asset" with the warranty entitlement to boot, and this type of warranty is not transferable. Before anyone asks, yes, I do have the paperwork to prove that these were legally obtained and fully paid for. Not to mention that a T43 that I sold to my neighbours more than a year ago still shows the very same info...so their record updating leaves quite a bit to be desired...

My experiences only.

With all of that said, I would report a stolen machine to them, because I'm fairly certain that they do make every effort not to mess with that side of the coin...

[eecon]

I should have clarified that the Lenovo Reps and I were discussing their newest units on a future-forward basis.

Please keep us posted as your business migrates to T400/T500/W500/W700 units in the future.

Thanks

[ajkula66]

eecon wrote:

Please keep us posted as your business migrates to T400/T500/W500/W700 units in the future.

My business will NEVER migrate in that direction. I've spoiled my customers with high-quality machines.

[Utwig]

I checked serial numbers for my last two purchases before buying. In second case I needed serial number to ask IBM service if they will fix that particular machine under warranty (USA model). No serial, no buy.

[sir_synthsalot]

What about selling a Thinkpad with a serial you already registered for yourself? Could that cause problems?

[j-dawg]

This might be a little OT, but having just experienced a stolen iPod out of my daughter's Jeep this evening (a passenger window smash-and-grab), I can tell you that it appears that Apple does not track their equipment like you would think they could:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2526

During my research I turned up this interesting Dateline story from two years ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20078671/

http://consumerist.com/2009/12/customer ... rn-it.html

Robbed on a subway, lost her iPhone, someone sends it in under warranty, and they can't return it to her.

To play devil's advocate, I understand that the CS rep is in a bad position here, but it sounds like they didn't even make an effort to accommodate her situation.