Vista SP2 Released to the General Public

[rvacha]

32-bit
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... layLang=en

64-bit
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... layLang=en

[Radioguy]

As soon as you posted this, I saw it popup in WU as well.

Already, the explorer shell seems faster in displaying folders and drives.

[K0LO]

...Already, the explorer shell seems faster in displaying folders and drives.

Yes, I've noticed this also.

[jdhurst]

Windows Explorer was thoroughly butchered by Microsoft (I have several case numbers on this). I noticed the same thing and so I guess they have tried to address the many bugs in Explorer. Too late for me as I am a convert to xPlorer2.
... JDH

[Radioguy]

Windows Explorer was thoroughly butchered by Microsoft (I have several case numbers on this). I noticed the same thing and so I guess they have tried to address the many bugs in Explorer. Too late for me as I am a convert to xPlorer2.
... JDH

I tried that, but I don't remember caring for it. I only gave it a try in the first place before finding I could fix the folder settings issues (my main gripe) via a registry edit. Since then all was good, and now even better.

[K0LO]

Windows Explorer was thoroughly butchered by Microsoft...

I've seen your many posts on this but must respectfully disagree. I find Vista Explorer to be very usable and a big improvement over the version in XP. I like it a lot. In fact, I favor the Vista version slightly over the Windows 7 version, other than the Win7 taskbar, which is a big improvement over the XP/Vista taskbar. UI shells are a matter of personal preference, so it isn't unusual to find disagreement.

[jdhurst]

There is no Cut, Copy, Paste or Up Arrow in Windows Explorer in Vista. This stuff has been there since day 1 with Microsoft until Vista. It is much safer to Ctrl Click multiple files and then click on Copy rather than to context multiple select. Such is why I moved to xPlorer2. I would not have minded if I could add these functions but I cannot. The other underpinnings appear to have been repaired in SP2, but I still see it as highly deficient.

Microsoft is gradually getting rid of customizations so that the only way I can work is the one single way they suggest and that way does not fit me and slows me down. ... JDH

[Radioguy]

Using that logic, then Crtl+C/V would be even easier than reaching for the mouse and clicking.

[jdhurst]

I suppose so, except that for over a decade we have had (or the ability to have) these icons on the Explorer menu bar. There was no reason to remove them, just Microsoft butchering things with no foresight, no strategy and no thought for anyone but themselves. Vista was proof positive that Microsoft did not listen to anyone over 35 or any business people. So the people with money in their pockets and a brain in their head said NO. And it failed. .... JDH

[K0LO]

I suppose so, except that for over a decade we have had (or the ability to have) these icons on the Explorer menu bar.

I spent the better part of the last decade removing cut/copy/paste icons from the menu bars in XP Explorer and the Office apps to make room for other icons. I found them redundant and unncessary when there were multiple other ways to do these functions; for example the right-click context menus, the drop-down "Edit" menu, and the Ctrl-X, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V shortcuts for cut/copy/paste, which have been around since Windows 1. So to me, Vista Explorer was an improvement. And Vista/Win 7 have the "breadcrumb trail" feature to replace the Up Arrow, which is even more powerful since it allows you to not only go up one level but to go back to any other location in the path.

Maybe Vista Explorer lacks a couple of the icons from older versions of Windows Explorer, but calling it "butchered" is hardly accurate. I am sure that Microsoft's decision to make these changes was done after much discussion and many usability studies, so your opinion is probably in the minority. Fortunately, you have found a UI shell that you like and can use instead of Vista Explorer.

[jdhurst]

<snip> I spent the better part of the last decade removing cut/copy/paste icons from the menu bars in XP Explorer and the Office apps to make room for other icons. <snip>

I would have liked it if Microsoft allowed both of to work the way we wish, not dump my way for no good reason. That is why I call it butchered. I am not inaccurate, merely in a minority.
-----------------------------------
And Vista/Win 7 have the "breadcrumb trail" feature to replace the Up Arrow, which is even more powerful since it allows you to not only go up one level but to go back to any other location in the path.

We shall have to see if this works. In Vista, in Outlook or other Office App (Office 2007) if you navigate down 15 layers to a file (I have complex file structures) and then close that once you have your file, and then if you go to save as one layer up, the ONLY way now in Vista without the UP arrow is to start at the very top and navigate down through 14 layers. This is massively unproductive and time wasting.

If you can show me the errors of my ways, I shall be publicly indebted to you for it.
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I am sure that Microsoft's decision to make these changes was done after much discussion and many usability studies, so your opinion is probably in the minority. Fortunately, you have found a UI shell that you like and can use instead of Vista Explorer.

Bill Gates once said that anyone over 30 was ready for the trash heap. He was under 30 at the time. I simply do not believe that Microsoft listened to anyone but themselves or did any competent usability study. They could not have or they would have discovered their errors before Vista got out the door. But they didn't and it failed.

I spent thousands of dollars on a Vista machine, Office 2007 and all new software to accommodate 64-bits. The 64-bits was well worth the vastly increased speed. The rest of it (Vista and Office 2007) was of no value to me whatever.

I very much value your writings. They have caused me to think hard about where to go in the future.

I am going to replace my aging Desktop computer with a Windows 7 Business 64-bit computer, but at this point, I am very seriously contemplating dumping Office 2007 and returning to Office 2003. That may be the best of both worlds.

Thank you again. I do appreciate your time here. ... JDH

[K0LO]

JDH:

Here is an example of the "Breadcrumb" navigation in Vista Explorer. The files shown are six levels deep in the folder structure. The path is shown at the top of the Explorer window. The last entry, pointed to by the green arrow, is the current folder whose contents are showing in the right half of the window. The "Up Arrow" is accessed by clicking at the location shown by the red arrow, which is the parent folder. Clicking there does the same thing as clicking the Up Arrow in XP Explorer. Further, clicking the drop-down list at the location of the blue arrow allows access to any of the other folders at the same level as the parent.

Easier yet is to just use the graphical tree structure shown in the left half of the window. The green arrow is showing the currently-open folder. Click anywhere else to jump to any level in the path.

The open/save dialogs accessed by apps like Office are similar, so it should be easy to save a document one level up by using the breadcrumb trail in the open/save dialog boxes.

The figure shown is from Windows 7 but Vista Explorer is almost identical. Hope this helps!

[jdhurst]

Hi Mark,

Your Vista example is excellent. I can see that on my own machine. It has also been thus for the left hand tree view in prior OS versions.

However within applications, my system does not work at all like yours. Word is set to open my Document folder (already deep down in the root file structure). That works fine. But if you open the file (which closes the "open" dialogue box and then wish to save it one level up, there is no breadcrumb trail to get you there. "Save as" starts where you last opened (normal), but there is no navigation to go up a level. I must renavigate. The bar at the top has no memory of where it came from 10 minutes ago and that just picks up web sites when I click on it. No "UP" arrow is a real problem here.

What I have not yet determined is if returning to Office 2003 will solve this. xPlorer2 solves the Explorer problem, but I have not yet found anything to solve the UP arrow. I have had push back from clients on this issue and I have looked hard, but not solved it. It may not be solvable.
.... JDH

[K0LO]

JDH:

Your description of how Word behaves is interesting -- I don't see that. Here is an example of what I see when choosing "Open" in Word and navigating down the folder structure to find a file: File Open Dialog box. Note that the path is displayed at the top of the dialog box in the "breadcrumb trail" style.

Here is what I then see after choosing "Save As": File Save As Dialog box. Note again the breadcrumb trail. Clicking at the location pointed to by the blue arrow is the same as the Up Arrow function in XP. Do you see something different than this on your machine? Note also that if you click the drop-down list at the location of the red arrow you will see the navigation history that you described earlier. Click "ESC" to cancel and return to the breadcrumb display.

These screen images were done on my office desktop which is running Vista (not Win7) so that we aren't comparing apples to oranges. I'm curious to know if you see the same. These common dialog boxes should be visible in any application, although some older apps that weren't coded properly may display the XP-style file open/save dialogs. I have one or two apps that do this (National Instruments Multisim and Adobe Acrobat 9 8 but I now have version 9 which uses the new open/save common dialogs). If you have an old app that displays the XP-style common dialogs you will see your Up Arrow in these.

Edited to correct the mis-statement about Acrobat 9.

[jdhurst]

Mark - Thank you so much - Wonderful news.

I had set Word (Excel and so) to open by default in my Document database. What the Open (and Save as) Dialogue box were showing were the Favourites View. When I expanded the folder view (and pulled it up to eliminate the Favourites View) then I see the trail you are showing me. When I Save As I do the same thing and I can then move a level up. These settings affect Excel as well (and therefore most probably Power Point and Access). The settings even affect Outlook.

So that is fixed, and I publicly thank you and I am indebted because this will save me much time.

Now if only Microsoft would stop making the default settings so useless.

I do want to move forward, because I was doing something last night on my XP desktop (opening an old VM that wanted to update) and the machine slowed down so much I had to wait 15 minutes to kill updates. Meanwhile my 64-bit Vista machine is speeding along like greased lightning. So I do want to move ahead. But Microsoft's arrogant view of their way or the highway keeps stopping me cold.

Your post was most definitely a big step in the correct and forward direction. Thank you again.
... JDH

[K0LO]

JDH:

Excellent!

You may eventually want to try the Favorite Links feature. I have a few folders that are heavily used, so having shortcut links to them is helpful to me. If you also have a few folders that you frequently navigate to then you can add those to Favorite Links. One click on a link will jump immediately to your folder of interest.

To create a Favorite Link, navigate to a folder of interest. Drag the folder to the Favorite Links area and you will see a text popup displaying "Create Link in Links". Releasing the mouse button results in the creation of a Favorite Link. To delete an unwanted link, right-click on it and choose "Remove Link". Links are stored in the folder C:\Users\Your_User_Name\Links if you want to manually edit them (they're simply shortcuts to the folder in the heirarchy).

Glad to have been of help.

[GomJabbar]

After running Windows Update to get the latest updates (except SP2), last night I downloaded and installed SP2 from the link in the OP's post. Seems to have gone smoothly.

[Comage]

Vista SP2 broke my Access Connections.

Now when I boot up, AC says I'm connected but I can't open any webpages at all.

I have to disconnect from my current profile, reconnect again before everything works fine.

Is nobody experiencing this???

[jdhurst]

Vista SP2 broke my Access Connections.
Now when I boot up, AC says I'm connected but I can't open any webpages at all.
I have to disconnect from my current profile, reconnect again before everything works fine.
Is nobody experiencing this???

Access Connections is working fine as is my VPN and my Security Suite. Those are the first things I check.

So try uninstalling Access Connections, uninstalling and then re-install your wireless driver, restart and reinstall Access Connections. That has worked in past. ... JDH