Judge Allows Civil Lawsuit Over Claims of Torture

[mattbiernat]

fundamental protections against abuse apply to all individuals detained by the government

finally....


and here is the link
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/us/po ... lobal-home

[ajkula66]

Your point being...?

I'm only asking because this particular case can be considered a precedent for a variety of things...

[mattbiernat]

my point is that no individual detained by the U.S. gov't officials should be tortured or handled over to a third part to be tortured. and all U.S. gov't officials invovled in such actions (whether it is Bush administration, Clinton administration or Obama administration) should be prosecuted. and i hope that there will more law suits like that in which higher gov't officials get incriminated and jailed.

[ajkula66]

Well, point well taken, however there are many gray areas here...

a) If you consider the conflict in which Mr. Padilla was captured a war, there are at least two other things to consider:

1) It was constitutionally wrong to keep him the way he was kept, being a U.S. citizen, but

2) In any previous conflict he would've been charged with treason/high treason/any current equivalent and executed.

So, all things considered, he still got a very good deal out of this whole nonsense.

b) If you don't consider the given conflict a war, Geneva Conventions rules don't apply and it's a free-for-all...

As for torture, it is morally and legally wrong. Period.

Having said that, it has been practiced and will be practiced as long as the humans rule this planet.

My $0.02 only...

[dsvochak]

and i hope that there will more law suits like that in which higher gov't officials get incriminated and jailed.

The sentiment expressed is appropriate only where criminal violations of the law are proven in court beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil suit, as the one referenced in the OP, no one will go to jail. Should the Plaintiff prevail he may get money damages.

[Kyocera]

War is a big giant grey area, it still is now, and will always be.

The definitions of war seem to be evolving every 5 years or so, nowdays. Get used to it.

The most intelligent well meaning politicians/lawyers/judges and even the Generals can't oversee it, can't regulate it, can't control it completely, can't control the savagery that many human beings posess when placed in the ultimate struggle for life and death or in any real stressful situation.

I see again another post made about something that seems to be slamming the U.S. The U.S. too, is evolving, changing, trying to survive, struggling, to be more precise. Personally I would like to see a Political Forum started or a "I Hate The U.S. Because" Forum, or "The U.S. is Screwed Up Because". Dump it all there and let 'Off Topic" be.

I like Off Topic to be just that Off topic, not a staging ground for political shots at the U.S. or it's citizens.

[mattbiernat]

I like Off Topic to be just that Off topic, not a staging ground for political shots at the U.S. or it's citizens.

i completely agree, however i thought that this article was worth posting in here. and regarding U.S. I love this country, it has given me much more than the country i was born at and by far it is more civilized. I've lived in a couple of places, traveled a bit too and there is nothing like California, U.S. and since this country was established by immigrants I can proudly say that I am immigrant and American.

[Temetka]

Do you guys know what a "Dirty Bomb" would do?

Even if it were 10 people that were detained, it saved thousands of lives, environmental damage and so on.

Lately i've been feeling a kinda anti-U.S. sentiment in my life (not U.S., just anti-they way things are now) and normally i'd be screaming for Mr. Woo to be nailed to the wall. However his actions and policies prevented[/b] and led to the conviction of a seriously disturbed person.

That being said, I am rabidly against granting immunity to the telco's and agencies involved in the warrantless wiretapping so go figure.

[mattbiernat]

we really don't know what was prevented and what was not. one thing is for sure thou that torture does not give reliable testimonies. did you know that even eye witness testimonies are not reliable? people tend to create falls memories. many so called "eyewitness testimonies" were overthrown with DNA testing.
as for whether I would be willing to torture one man to death to save 1000 lives is clearly a philosophical question and i really do not want to fall into that hole.

[BillMorrow]

everyone hates america.. the united states of america to be more exact..
yet thousands still want to be americans..

the world accuses america of torture (though torture to me means having important parts cut off or otherwise destroyed) yet they want to be americans..

i would think that if i was convicted of speeding or even causing a serious accident, torture would not be used to extract a confession..

but if i am caught with bomb parts or whatever the central figure in this case did, and i refuse to "talk", simulated drowning or loud RAP music (both near drowning and really loud and bad "music" i have experienced) would not constitute torture..

one last thought, don't ever attack my home and family or even my neghibors because then you will learn there are few rules when defending against attack..

and no, we won't add in the various terrorist decapitation videos or people jumping from the 101st floor..

[DeAnna]

Bless you, Bill. Well said.

[t140568]

everyone hates america.. the united states of america to be more exact..
yet thousands still want to be americans..

the world accuses america of torture (though torture to me means having important parts cut off or otherwise destroyed) yet they want to be americans..

i would think that if i was convicted of speeding or even causing a serious accident, torture would not be used to extract a confession..

but if i am caught with bomb parts or whatever the central figure in this case did, and i refuse to "talk", simulated drowning or loud RAP music (both near drowning and really loud and bad "music" i have experienced) would not constitute torture..

one last thought, don't ever attack my home and family or even my neghibors because then you will learn there are few rules when defending against attack..

and no, we won't add in the various terrorist decapitation videos or people jumping from the 101st floor..

+1