Slow fading of red/green sub pixel on LCD

[dvorak]

I have again discovered the slow red/green subpixel problem on my replaced display, in the lower center and left side, and it seems to be getting worse.
It's made by Samsung and has a native resolution of SXGA+
I have already contated IBM (in USA via email) and a new display is already on the road, IBM also notified that they would like to send my unit for inspection and research to Greenock, UK, I agreed only if they'll replace mine with an equivalent or a better Thinkpad. I'm waiting for their reply regarding the change.

I'm rather sceptical about the new display and am rather sure it'll develop the same problem as did my current one. The day I recieved it, it had no slow pixels anywhere, now, a few days ago I thought to check for them again, while I was writing about my dissatisfaction with the gradient effect to the CEO of IBM, found them, and the wave of slow pixels seems to get larger.

Also, a very interesting fact is, that it only happens when half of the screen goes white, like in my case the lower half. When I switch the whole screen between white and black, I don't notice any strong red/green pixel-wave anywhere.

I uploaded and made some unicolor pictures, one black, one white and one with a white line in the lower side, I suggest click the "View in slideshow" button in Windows Explorer (not Internet Explorer) so they'll cover the whole screen, then switch between them with the arrow keys.
You can also hold one picture for about 1 second, then switch to black, and see if you can spot red pixels fading away slowly.
You can also change the view angle a little, the lower side has alot of backlight coming, so sometimes it makes the red a bit more lighter, but it's definitely is there.

All of them 1400x1050 and about 20KB, so they'll fill both the XGA and SXGA+ display:

• Black background - http://img204.exs.cx/img204/2879/black2bu.png
  Black background with white line - http://img204.exs.cx/img204/3404/whiteline2so.png
  White background - http://img204.exs.cx/img204/3130/white3wp.png

When switching between the white-lined picture and black, I see a rather big wave now, about half-inch in height and half of the width of the display, in the lower left side, when looking close, I see that some green pixels never turn off, but they are too small to spot from further away due to the strong backlighting in the lower part. In general, it's one dirty wave with more reddish edges and a greener center.

I'd be very thankful if others would also check their display and report back, so I can also notify IBM and perhaps think about asking for a replacement with a FlexView screen.

[dvorak]

After checking again, I was able to find, that a little drowsiness still occours, even if the whole screen is switched to white then black, although the difference compared to the "white-line switching" is big.
Also, when switching the screen black, I can even see the letters "start" where the Windows startmenu is, hence the problem occours in normal conditions aswell.

[zverg]

After checking again, I was able to find, that a little drowsiness still occours, even if the whole screen is switched to white then black, although the difference compared to the "white-line switching" is big.
Also, when switching the screen black, I can even see the letters "start" where the Windows startmenu is, hence the problem occours in normal conditions aswell.

Same here, and this is even after they replaced my LCD for this reason. I'm going to call them again about it, but this time I refuse to let the thinkpad out of my hands. On-site, or give me an x-series to use in the meantime. They can't assume that I have another computer to use, and although my dorm room is littered with computers, my T42 is the only laptop.

Has anyone had this problem on any display other than the T42 14" SXGA+? That's what I have, I was just wondering if it's just a problem with all thinkpads or this specific display (I don't know if mine is a samsung, how did you check?).

[dvorak]

I got my FRU from the warranty-document that they give when you get your machine back.
To check the parts shipped with your system, go to:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm
Then you can do a search on the PC Support page by the FRU.

IBM took my machine for a couple of hours to change the LCD, so it didn't bring any discomfort.

Now I'm eager to see what comes out this time, I'm rather sure (unfortunately) that the same problem will appear, and I don't consider it very normal and suitable for a business laptop, hence can't be easily ignored. I wonder, should I choose a Thinkpad with the FlexView or ask some other compensation?

[zverg]

Planar makes LCDs (I know I own a couple) and I see this when I look up my serial number. Since the LCD has already been replaced it might no longer be the same one.

"13R2685 93P4158 PLANAR FRU"

[dvorak]

Planar makes LCDs (I know I own a couple) and I see this when I look up my serial number. Since the LCD has already been replaced it might no longer be the same one.

"13R2685 93P4158 PLANAR FRU"

That FRU is actually has something to do with the videocard and is not the display. The display's FRU is listed next to the "14.1 INCH LCD DISPLAY FRU" that is in the bottom of the list.
Then you can search your LCD FRU at this page to link it to a manufacturer:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-46502

[RS_003]

1400x1050 flexview.

Pixel perfect, and problem is _NOT_ present.
Screen is 5 days old (took delivery of it on saturday)

[dvorak]

Just got my display replaced, of course, as the previous one, it doesn't/didn't have this problem in the beginning.

The old display was sent to UK for inspection, now I'll be on alert for this problem and am very sceptical, the now old one also developed tihs problem in a few weeks, perhaps this will too.

1400x1050 flexview.

Pixel perfect, and problem is _NOT_ present.
Screen is 5 days old (took delivery of it on saturday)

I'd be very grateful if you could report back on this problem in a week and once more the week after that, As I mentioned, none of the displays had this problem in the beginning.

[RS_003]

Just got my display replaced, of course, as the previous one, it doesn't/didn't have this problem in the beginning.

The old display was sent to UK for inspection, now I'll be on alert for this problem and am very sceptical, the now old one also developed tihs problem in a few weeks, perhaps this will too.

1400x1050 flexview.

Pixel perfect, and problem is _NOT_ present.
Screen is 5 days old (took delivery of it on saturday)

I'd be very grateful if you could report back on this problem in a week and once more the week after that, As I mentioned, none of the displays had this problem in the beginning.

Ill try to remember it, but I have a busy life, so dont pin me down on it

[NathanA]

We wouldn't expect RS_003 to develop the problem on his display anyway, would we? He has the SXGA FlexView (== the 15" model, by IDtech) and not the SXGA non-FlexView (== the 14" model, could be from one of several manufacturers but this thread references Samsung).

Or have people been victim to this problem on the FlexView screens as well?

-- Nathan

[sugo]

6 months old 14.1" SXGA+ here. Switched back and forth for the black and black/white picture in full screen. Nothing abnormal here after close examination.

It's an IDTech LCD though.

[dvorak]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't notice RS_003's display was FlexView, hence my wish that he would report back.
I too haven't heard these problems appear on FlexView LCD's, the only problem that I'm aware of is related to the screen behing darker on the right side, which may also start to bother.

As far as I have read, others have suggested that the Samsung's display is better, although now knowing that sugo's IDTech display does not have this problem, I'm beginning to doubt.

Regarding my current display, no anomalies yet, although I do have a strong feeling that it'll soon appear again.

[RS_003]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't notice RS_003's display was FlexView, hence my wish that he would report back.
I too haven't heard these problems appear on FlexView LCD's, the only problem that I'm aware of is related to the screen behing darker on the right side, which may also start to bother.

As far as I have read, others have suggested that the Samsung's display is better, although now knowing that sugo's IDTech display does not have this problem, I'm beginning to doubt.

Regarding my current display, no anomalies yet, although I do have a strong feeling that it'll soon appear again.

I do have that problem. The right side is a tad more yellow, then the left side. But It isn't super anyoing, because I dont see it al the time, you only see it in windows, and still then you have to sit right before you machine at close disctance

[NathanA]

Yeah, I'm the one who started the thread on the dark right-side of the FlexView panels:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... rustration

Apparently it's normal across all panels (AFAICT)...people just notice it (or don't) with varying degrees of perception. Ah, well.

Non-FlexView IDtech panels, on this forum at least, seem to have a reputation for poor contrast and color rendition when compared to their Samsung siblings, but it's also possible that the Samsungs are the only panels that suffer from the weird "stuck red pixels" problem. In that case, if IBM cannot get a satisfactory resolution from Samsung, people may end up having to decide which is the lesser of two evils (IDtech vs. Samsung), though I know people will argue that they shouldn't HAVE to decide and that IBM really should be shipping better quality and QA's displays on their higher-end ThinkPads.

My co-worker owns a 14" T42. I should get his serial number and parts lookup it to find out which display he has and perhaps run some tests on the display (with my co-worker's cooperation, of course ). I was actually quite impressed with the display when I saw it...it was one of the brightest TFT panels I've ever seen, perhaps even brighter than my FlexView (IPS). The color white was WHITE all across the board, and there were no weird dark spots/bruises/discolorations/what-have-you anywhere to be found. The only downside is that, when compared to the FlexView, black is NOT very black, and vertical backlight distribution was much the same as any other TFT panel I've ever seen (brighter at the bottom, darker at the top, with a gradual, linear decline between the bottom and top); although not perfect in the backlighting department either, my FlexView is much more consistant VERTICALLY than other displays (and even compared to itself horizontally, IMO!)

-- Nathan

[dvorak]

I'm rather sure too that people simply don't notice such effects, doing casual office work they spend most of their time looking at the keyboard to find the characters, or when watching DVDs, they don't use subtitles.
I first discovered the problem when watching an episode of Friends, with subtitles, as I always do, the problem is definitely not possible to put aside when an annoying shadow keeps chasing the subtitles.

I'm trying to figure out what should I do when this abnormality appears again, should I really ask for some compensation in the form of another more powerful Thinkpad and send this one to Greenock for analyzation and be stuck using external monitors for some things till they come up with a display which has both bearable contrast, color and no anomalies regarding the response rates.

Regarding your co-worker, Nathan, the very bright screen on that T42 could aswell been the result of your eyes and poor lighting around you, not actual hardware difference. I just came from behind a CRT monitor, opened by thinkpad and even at brightness level 3 my eyes were frightened for a sec (:P), now after some time, at level 7, it still seems extremely bright in my rather poorly lighted room ;)

[sugo]

I wonder if the red ghosting is a variation of the same issue.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... =red+ghost

[dvorak]

I wonder if the red ghosting is a variation of the same issue.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... =red+ghost

Yes, although it's not a variation, it's the same thing, as mentioned in that thread also, the problem is not bound to the bottom edge.
I've seen similar other threads too, all of them being quite old. For example yesterday, when I first checked the archive of the old forum, I was greeted by this topic on the homepage of the T-series subforum:
"Hundreds of stuck red subpixels?"
http://www.afaonline.com:8080/read?52953,80
dating back to December 31, 2003 05:45 PM.
A long known problem with no solution yet.

[rssb]

I have 14.1" samsung display but i when i used the 3 pictures in the slide show i havent seen anything, they look perfect and even when changing them quickly with arrows they are perfect.

Now there is something else which is bothering me, when i have the IBM wallpaper, along the time zone lines towards the bottom. ( this is within the 1 inch area white area in one of the pictures) i see streaks of bright green pixels, along most of the time zone lines from left to right if not all of them

I am not sure if they were there from day one, or they are just increasing slowly, one has to look carefully, because they never caught my eye so far until today.

[rssb]

Just an update, i tried loading the drivers again and playing with the gamma settings, that seemed to have removed the bright green pixel streaks at the bottom, on the time zone lines.

[dvorak]

That's nice to hear, rssb.
Mine hasn't developed any either, atleast for now.

Just to clarify, the effect occoured more strongy when the red subpixels were activated for a little more than half a second, so changing the pictures fast should not produce any red-ghosting.

[dvorak]

Now, after some time, I'm slowly starting to see the red-glow again, it's very weak and dissapears faster but still it's there.
IBM also emailed me yesterday asking me for my comments about the display they replaced, I guess I've got to tell them about my recurring problem again.
I also haven't heard anything about my last display that went to Greenock for research, probably they'll soon have one more to inspect :)

Well, I just can't get my laptop to be perfect :P

[NathanA]

dvorak,

Maybe ask them to replace it with the IDTech 14" SXGA+ (FRU 11P8346) this time?

Samsung obviously has a problem.

BTW, I checked my co-workers 14" (which also happens to be a 2378-FVU) on the IBM Parts List site, and it shows that he has a Samsung as well. As I mentioned in a previous post, when I saw it, I thought it was beautiful. Made me wonder if I should've purchased a 14" T42p instead; then I wouldn't have had the dark spot on the right-side of the screen to worry about. ;-P (Actually, in all fairness, I've gotten pretty used to it by now.) I'll have to check with him again tomorrow and see if his screen exhibits the same problem that your screens have.

-- Nathan

[dvorak]

dvorak,

Maybe ask them to replace it with the IDTech 14" SXGA+ (FRU 11P8346) this time? :-)

Samsung obviously has a problem.

-- Nathan

I'll first see what IBM suggests, to be honest I don't want to give up rest of the color quality/contrast to get rid of the slow pixels, seems to be a lose-lose situation :)

Anyways, when I booted my Thinkpad up in the morning there weren't any slow subpixels that I saw of and none have appeared either after a few hours of browsing.
Yesterday night I'd been using it for 6-7 hours straight under heavy use, 50-60 degrees on AC, perhaps there's some connection how it first appears.
None the less, even if it is heat that first generated the problem, it stuck, and on my last 2 displays it appeared even after a cold boot.

[dvorak]

Now to append to my ongoing story "Quest for an acceptable display" :)

I've monitored the display now and then with the pictures I made before (bottom white line) as it is a faster way to check than watching a movie with subtitles (:)).
Each time I saw very little glow in the left corner, it made me suspicious although I forced myself to accept it at that time, I didn't have time to demand another change nor did I have any work that the glow interfered.
Today, as I'm again going to do presentations soon, I checked with a picture that displays a white line on the left side, and to my shock, that ugly red glow appeared to my eyes, quite strong and noticeable.
Currently, as I'm writing this post, the glow is not that apparent, but that was the case with my last displays also - glow didn't appear always in the beginning.

I did notify the Executive Complaints Coordinator about the small glow as he asked me about the display when I recieved it, he proposed, if I accept, they'll send it to UK for research. Then I replied that getting a replacement would be more suitable, as it's easier to change computers than give mine away and be left empty handed for an unspecified time. It's possible that the mail got lost, but he hasn't replied yet, I'll send it again and add my recent findings.

How would you suggest I act, demand a 15" FlexView with better specs? Demand a refund? I need a laptop that I can do presentations on, and if it is glowing red while I do it, it's tacky and abnormal.
14" was perfect for me, altough I think I may settle for a 15" model, it should defnitely be more powerful regarding the specifications (UXGA for instance) for me to have a reason to accept the extra weight and size.
To note, I understand the 14" SXGA+ non-FlexView isn't exactly made for large audience presentations, but being behind it alone and still see such annoyances and artifacts, a bit unacceptable, I think.