Hard drive question

[Me2]

I have a R61e laptop. I am thinking about getting a new hard drive for it. When I get the new hard drive does the rpm on the new one need to be the same as the old one? Basically I want to know if a faster hard drive would cause any problems. Thanks.

Also what type of hard drive? Like ATA, PATA, or SATA? My computer has an ATA hard drive right now I think. However I am having a hard time finding an ATA hard drive. So could I use a PATA or SATA ? Or will that cause problems in the bios?

[RealBlackStuff]

No problem with rpm difference.
Most HDs nowadays run at either 5400 or 7200.
The new 5400s are almost as fast as (or equal to) the 7200s.
It's a matter of budget only.

[jparrot427]

Hello RBS.
How can you say that a sata HD will run in an ATA Thinkpad. What about the connectors ?
Totally different.
You will loose a feather. JP.

[ajkula66]

jparrot427 wrote:

How can you say that a sata HD will run in an ATA Thinkpad. What about the connectors ?
Totally different.
You will loose a feather. JP.

You should lose a feather before even getting one for not knowing that R61e uses a SATA drive...

RBS was just giving his opinion on drive speeds...

And to OP: your laptop will take any 2.5" (9.5mm) SATA drive...your needs and budget are the only real limitations.

[RealBlackStuff]

And to also reply to jparrot427:
The question about ATA or SATA was not in the original post when I answered.
That question was put in 3 days later!

You should be plucked!

[jparrot427]

OK, I will forgive you about the ATA vs SATA question. Let us all keep all of our feathers then.

I got a further question for you, ready ? I run a G-41, it says that it will accept PC2700 for a max of 512 MBs, I have in it now 2 x 1 GBs at PC3200, fooled the system ! The question is that these are SDDR200 and they are not on the market anywhere nowadays, will SDDR400 run ? Will they be slowed down to the MoBo rate of 200 ???

Thanks, this forum is full of good people and information. JP.

[RealBlackStuff]

DDR200 = PC1600
DDR266 = PC2100
DDR333 = PC2700
DDR400 = PC3200
AFAIK there is no such thing as an SDDRxxx, but that is moot here.
Your DDR400/PC3200 modules are running at DDR333/PC2700 speed, which is the G4x speed.
The G4x has an FSB of 400MHz.
Your G40/G41 can take up to 2x 1GB PC2700 RAM.
Maybe you should read up on the specs of your laptop?

[jparrot427]

Hello, RBS.

You kindly wrote to me thus :

DDR200 = PC1600
DDR266 = PC2100
DDR333 = PC2700
DDR400 = PC3200
AFAIK there is no such thing as an SDDRxxx, but that is moot here.
Your DDR400/PC3200 modules are running at DDR333/PC2700 speed, which is the G4x speed.
The G4x has an FSB of 400MHz.
Your G40/G41 can take up to 2x 1GB PC2700 RAM.
Maybe you should read up on the specs of your laptop?

Thanks for the eloquent information. I have searched as much as I could to find this data. I finally used Everest to see what was already running in this G41 and it showed me PC3200. Therefor, the new sticks that I have ordered from a seller on eBay will run at 400MHz on this second G41. Did I fool the system ? My limited experience in this field is that the maximum limits when published, are the present day obtainable hardware. If the data on the G41 says that the maximum is DDR333/PC2700, it reflects this. Trust me, it runs on PC3200, it has the 2 G capacity too. The SDDR was a typo.

As far as the specs are concerned, I have the HMM here for all my Thinkpads and it does not state in it what the limits are, let alone the FSB rate.

Here is another little quick of this G41, it sports 4 USB ports but two are dead, the lower one at the back and the rear one on the left side. If I do a full redo using the 7 CDs as provided by IBM, they come to, all four of them. Strange ! After a while, they die. I have installed a 2 USB port PCMCIA to replace them. I am curious to see if this second G41 will behave the same. Are these BIOS controlled or software controlled ? BIOS is the latest.

Thanks a mega for your time and attention RBS, tremendously appreciated. JP.

[RealBlackStuff]

Try page 45 of the HMM. (39t6188.pdf)

[jparrot427]

Hello RBS.

I like people who do not give up easy ! Good going on your part.

I find on page 50 of my .pdf HMM, the relevent information. Looking at my G41, it says that it has 2 G of RAM at DDR3200 (200). I ignore if this is the rate of the sticks or what. The MoBo is rated at 166 x 2 = 333. This arithmetic is a bit beyond me, you know. Is it capable of using DDR333 and can use the DDR200 then. What will it do with DDR400 ?

Do these sticks have to be connected ( run ) at the specific design rate ? If the ones now are 200 and they are good on a 333 MoBo, will the next step also be accepted, meaning running 400 in a 333 MoBo ?

As you can tell, RBS, I am not too gened up in this regard, thankfully there are on this Thinkpad group, enough helpfull persons that any and all information is accessible.

Sincerely, handcuff36 at gmail dot com

[ajkula66]

Your machine will run on PC3200 (not PC2-3200) but at PC2700 speeds, it's that simple. It will take 2GB of RAM with no questions asked, all of G4x units do.

As for USB ports, have you checked to see whether they were possibly physically damaged? These are heavy machines, and yanking the USB cable is more likely to bust the port than to move the laptop itself...

[jparrot427]

Very good morning to you ajkula66.

Thanks a mega for your comeback to me.

>> Your machine will run on PC3200 (not PC2-3200) but at PC2700 speeds, it's that simple. It will take 2GB of RAM with no questions asked, all of G4x units do.

This question was for a second G41, my first one does run on 2 G of RAM, I was unable to obtain 200 rated new sticks, only 400 and there laid the problem, by your saying, they should run but at the PC2700.

>> As for USB ports, have you checked to see whether they were possibly physically damaged? These are heavy machines, and yanking the USB cable is more likely to bust the port than to move the laptop itself.

This is a one user machine, me. I am very carefull when doing anything with it. The funny part is that once, I had redone the OS using the 7 CDs as provided by IBM and the four ports were back live. Two of them finally died, I totally ignore on what occasion, I noticed later as I was trying to use them. Strange to say the least. As it is, I am back to four USB ports, I got a two-port PCMCIA into the bottom slot.

Amazing thing, this group. There is always somebody who "knows". Thanks for your input. I have not yet received this twin G41, I am looking ahead to use it. It was advertised as having only 512 MHz of RAM, thus my queries.

Have a great day. JP.

[Harryc]

... having only 512 MHz of RAM

JP, a technical guy you are not . RAM size is measured in MB (MegaBytes) or GB (GigaBytes) not MHz (Megahertz).

[RealBlackStuff]

And while we're at it, stop talking about 200 or 400 RAM, it's PC3200 or DDR400.

[sjthinkpader]

...Therefor, the new sticks that I have ordered from a seller on eBay will run at 400MHz on this second G41. Did I fool the system ? ...

As AJ had explained, your memory will run at PC2700 speed. This is because the RAM itself does not generate a clock. It takes the clock from your system, in this case PC2700 speed.

That new RAM you got was tested at PC3200 speed and capable of working at that speed in a system running at PC3200 or slower. In your case PC2700.

Most large OEM made SODIMM will list one or more tested speeds (PC3200, PC2700...) in the SPD on board. Many aftermarket SODIMM doesn't provide speed information in the SPD even though the packaging may say such and such. Then the system will try to boot at the default speed settings, clock, CAS latency etc.

Sometimes faster RAM may fail to run in slower systems due to factors such as signal hold time (signal disappeared before system could sense it) but this is rare.

[jparrot427]

HarryC, hello

>> JP, a technical guy you are not . RAM size is measured in MB (MegaBytes) or GB (GigaBytes) not MHz (Megahertz).

Ooooh ! I hate this. That got by me even on a reread of my post. So sorry. You are right on two counts, it is GB and then I am not too technical.

I reel with the blows but learn all the time. JP.

[jparrot427]

OK, >>And while we're at it, stop talking about 200 or 400 RAM, it's PC3200 or DDR400.

Try not being too narky about this, you have the advantage of knowledge. JP.

[jparrot427]

Hello Thinkpader.

>> As AJ had explained, your memory will run at PC2700 speed. This is because the RAM itself does not generate a clock. It takes the clock from your system, in this case PC2700 speed.

There is nothing I like more than an eloquent reply, to the point and easy to read/grab. I had a feeling that this would be the case but I was getting variable information from the seller first and also from my G41 when read it, using Everest. The HMM mentions all data as being max, I know otherwise, I have still an 11 year old 765 ED and its manual says that the max HD to install is 20 MBs, it run an 80 MBs now. I have a feeling that these limits are written with whatever is available that year.

I guess that the new RAM sticks at PC3200 are not too far from the MoBo rate and thus will run.

Thanks a mega for your input. JP.

[sjthinkpader]

...
Try not being too narky about this, you have the advantage of knowledge. JP.

Then take a look around before you start firing....

Hello RBS.
How can you say that a sata HD will run in an ATA Thinkpad. What about the connectors ?
Totally different.
....

And to also reply to jparrot427:
The question about ATA or SATA was not in the original post when I answered.
That question was put in 3 days later!
...

[jparrot427]

Good morning RBS.

I typed at you thus :

>> Try not being too narky about this, you have the advantage of knowledge. JP.

You still and for ever will have the advantage of knowledge. Thanks.

[RealBlackStuff]

Not to worry, eventually you'll be in the know too, and able to help others.
Just take your machine completely apart 2 or 3 times, it's quite easy if you follow the HMM and mark where screws come from/go to.
Or buy a clunker on eBay to practice on.

PS: and we also have a great Search function on the forum, not to be sneezed at!

[jparrot427]

Good morning, RBS. ( But you will not get me to drink Guiness ).

>> Not to worry, eventually you'll be in the know too, and able to help others.

I am not planning on this, you know, I turned 77 last July and do not have enough time ahead. So, I depend on this forum to get valid information.

I have not yet received the second G41. I will let all know when and how it behaves. It is destined to my brother, 78, who had an accident 18 months ago and is in a wheelchair now. That is why I think that it is worth the effort to bug one and all here, thanks for your input, "narky" as it was.

JP.

[jparrot427]

Hello RBS, how are things ? You said :

DDR333 = PC2700
DDR400 = PC3200

Your DDR400/PC3200 modules are running at DDR333/PC2700 speed, which is the G4x speed.
The G4x has an FSB of 400MHz.
Your G40/G41 can take up to 2x 1GB PC2700 RAM.
Maybe you should read up on the specs of your laptop?

Well, it now sports 2 x 1 G of PC3200 and runs fine. This is a fine G41, it also had a built-in WiFi, 15.1" screen. A little step up from my first G41 that will go to my brother, now wheelchair bound. That one also has 2 Gigs of RAM.

Have a great day. JP.

[sjthinkpader]

Even that your RAM is rated at PC3200, it is running at PC2700 in your G41. That is because RAM doesn't generate clock. They take clock from the system. If the G41 sends it 167Mhz (333Mhz double data rate), then it is running at PC2700.

The RAM rating just means that they will work in PC3200 systems. Usually they work in slower system also. Front side bus is not directly connected to the memory bus. The memory goes thru the Northbridge onto the FSB.

[jparrot427]

Good morning SJTP. You wrote :

>> Even that your RAM is rated at PC3200, it is running at PC2700 in your G41. That is because RAM doesn't generate clock. They take clock from the system. If the G41 sends it 167Mhz (333Mhz double data rate), then it is running at PC2700.

>> The RAM rating just means that they will work in PC3200 systems. Usually they work in slower system also. Front side bus is not directly connected to the memory bus. The memory goes thru the Northbridge onto the FSB.

Good, this is the reply that I seeked. I had so many "advise" as to the PC3200 not running at all on a PC2700 capable MoBo that I had to ask here. You first line above was what I thought but I was not sure. I think that the G41 is at 333 MHz, on DDR. In the end, it runs and these were the only sticks that I could get.

Have a great day. JP.

[sjthinkpader]

The original DDR designs were done close to ten years ago. In these ten years, the wafer process had improved. Generally that means faster speed. So the current production of older RAM technology is usually faster.

There were some specialist that kept old wafer factories to sell older RAM. The general consumption level of old RAM is too low to make this kind of business economical. They mostly stopped these older wafers. Old RAM sold today are either made on newer factories or from wafer "bank".

There are RAM that are so fast than the signal disappeared before the system could sense it. This is called signal "hold" time being too short. But usually this is not a problem.

[jparrot427]

Thanks SPadder, your post are fine, to the point and down to my level.

Have a great day. JP.