Batt Info Showing Increase in Cycle despite Custom Threshold

[bautista.ekonomista]

Greetings everyone!

A few weeks ago, I followed what was written here in the forum about proper Thinkpad battery maintenance. So I changed the charge thresholds to 20-80 (start charging when below 20%, stop charging at 80%).

However, whenever I plug off my Thinkpad and use it until it runs below 10% and charge it again, the battery information indicates that there's an additional cycle in my battery's life. I thought that by changing the charge threshold below 100%, no matter how many times I charge it once it goes below the minimum threshold, the cycle count won't change until it REACHES 100% again. Am I missing something with the posts written here with regard to optimizing battery lifespan by changing charge thresholds?

I hope someone can clarify this to me and to anyone who also has the same question in mind.

Thanks a lot!

P.S. What does "calibrating" mean? And when is it the best time to perform a battery reset? With my old battery, which I had exchanged a few days before its 1-year warranty expired (good thing the service center guys ok'd it), I never performed even a single reset during the whole time it was with me.

[Harryc]

The cycle count always increases by one if you charge your battery. So if it falls below 20 and starts charging, that is one cycle.

[bautista.ekonomista]

The cycle count always increases by one if you charge your battery. So if it falls below 20 and starts charging, that is one cycle.

Does that mean that I'm still slowly "killing" my battery? Oh noes!

If that's the case, is the current setup (20-80 threshold) a better battery configuration than the full charge (~100%) one?

[yak]

The point in changing the low threshold to 20% is to stop the battery from charging when you switch between the battery and AC power frequently. So lets say if you reach 60% when running off a battery and then you plug in, the battery won't be charged - this is where you save a cycle. This happen each time until you reach 20% or less and plug in.

The battery is then charged until it reaches 80% (the high threshold). The reason for this is that the Li-Ion cells deteriorate faster if kept at their full charge capacity.

You can't stop the battery from deteriorating. The 20-80 thresholds are just a way to optimize the process and prolong the battery's life.

[bautista.ekonomista]

The point in changing the low threshold to 20% is to stop the battery from charging when you switch between the battery and AC power frequently. So lets say if you reach 60% when running off a battery and then you plug in, the battery won't be charged - this is where you save a cycle. This happen each time until you reach 20% or less and plug in.

The battery is then charged until it reaches 80% (the high threshold). The reason for this is that the Li-Ion cells deteriorate faster if kept at their full charge capacity.

You can't stop the battery from deteriorating. The 20-80 thresholds are just a way to optimize the process and prolong the battery's life.

But do you think it's better to cap the charge threshold at 80% than at 100%? And should a cycle be added using this configuration, will the battery deteriorate faster compared to a setup that maxes out battery charge?

My apologies for asking too many questions... Thanks a lot!

[yak]

But do you think it's better to cap the charge threshold at 80% than at 100%? And should a cycle be added using this configuration, will the battery deteriorate faster compared to a setup that maxes out battery charge?

Setting the thresholds should depend on your usage model. I'm for example running on AC most of the time and if I use the battery, it's for short periods of time and then I'm back on AC. That's why 20-80 makes sense because I save cycles and the battery deteriorates slower because I'm keeping it at max. 80%.

You have to understand what these settings really do and then adapt them to how you use your notebook.

Going back to your question, if you're mostly on AC and/or use the battery for short periods, it is better to cap the charge at 80%. If you need the notebook to run as long as it can (because you're often in places with no AC outlet) then you don't want to cap it.

[bautista.ekonomista]

I see.

Well, most of the time I really attempt to use my Thinkpad nearby an electric socket. Aside from getting to enjoy max performance from my laptop, there's also no thought of having to look for a socket should my battery run low. That's why I also followed the 20-80 charge threshold.

Thanks for the prompt reply! I hope your answer, together with that of Harryc, will make things clearer to those who also have the same concerns.

All the best!

P.S. What about battery resetting? When do you exactly perform this? And how does calibration work? I've read somewhere that after a few weeks or so, one has to recalibrate the battery to optimize its usage.

[yak]

I have actually done a recalibration yesterday. For the first time for that matter since I got this notebook almost a year ago. Probably should have do it more often, I've activated the checkbox now so the Power Manager is supposed to tell me when I need it next time.

If you click the recalibration button, it shows a window telling you what it will do before it starts. That is: it charges the battery to 100%, drains it to 0% and recharges to 100%. That of course may eat up 2 cycles so you don't want to do it too often.

Before the calibration, the capacity of my battery was 83% of its design capacity (with 47 cycles). After calibration it increased dramatically to 97%. I was impressed when I woke up today (I started the calibration before going to bed and found the notebook in the morning in standby mode).

[bautista.ekonomista]

Whoa! That's a big jump in battery capacity!

When I was still using the original battery that came with my T61 a year ago, I also set battery maintenance settings such that Power Manager will notify me when is it best to perform a battery reset. However, for more than a year of use for that battery, Power Manager did not notify me even a single time. That makes me question the "credibility" of the said automated setup.

According to the information my battery gives me, its full charge capacity is still over and above the battery's designed capacity (56.75 Wh > 56.16 Wh). Why is that so? Do all new Thinkpad batteries exceed the designed battery capacity? Will I perform the said "battery reset" when the full charge capacity finally goes below the designed capacity?

To be very honest, I really am learning a lot from these discussions, especially from disclosures made by Yak (to whom I really am indebted ). I hope other Thinkpadders will contribute in this discussion so that we can learn more about how Thinkpad battery maintenance goes about.

Thanks a lot!

[yak]

I see. OK, I will keep in mind that the notification may not work.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I think I saw a Power Manager balloon tip twice in the last couple of days saying about the 83% capacity. It wasn't the reason why I did the recalibration, I was thinking about it before the balloons showed up. Funny thing is, I'm sure the notification checkbox was off when I got them . Ah, never mind, it's just a notification.

So you say the capacity of your battery exceeds the design one? Never seen that on my ThinkPads but I had only two and got both used (albeit the one I'm using now had only 3 cycles or so). So I don't know, it might be normal. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it - the more capacity, the merrier!

And thank you for kind words. I learn a lot about ThinkPads on this site and when I can, I try to contribute too. What's great about this forum is its members, a lot of surprisingly kind people willing to help, no trolls.

[bautista.ekonomista]

I see. OK, I will keep in mind that the notification may not work.

Hmm, now that I think about it, I think I saw a Power Manager balloon tip twice in the last couple of days saying about the 83% capacity. It wasn't the reason why I did the recalibration, I was thinking about it before the balloons showed up. Funny thing is, I'm sure the notification checkbox was off when I got them . Ah, never mind, it's just a notification.

So you say the capacity of your battery exceeds the design one? Never seen that on my ThinkPads but I had only two and got both used (albeit the one I'm using now had only 3 cycles or so). So I don't know, it might be normal. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it - the more capacity, the merrier!

And thank you for kind words. I learn a lot about ThinkPads on this site and when I can, I try to contribute too. What's great about this forum is its members, a lot of surprisingly kind people willing to help, no trolls.

About the excess battery capacity, I was also surprised when I first read it. In fact, the highest capacity it achieved was near 57 Wh, when it was still somewhat new. Perhaps our moderators can explain why is that the case?

I second your observation regarding the very positive experience everyone has with the forum. Not only is the forum the best avenue to ask questions, you can also find the best and most informative answers to questions you may not have even thought of in the first place! I think our moderators deserve two thumbs up, as well as all the forum members who tirelessly answer questions no matter how simple they may seem.

Again, thanks so much Yak for all the invaluable comments. What's very interesting about these sharings is that I pass them on to non-Thinkpad users. And upon hearing how Thinkpads can be customized in a certain way that not only improves user experience but also extends the laptop's life, they can't help but blame themselves for getting the crappy laptops they are currently using. Well, I think it's one of my ardent dreams to spread the Thinkpad love around (ooops...this post is getting way off topic, but I hope the moderators will allow this through ) and to show my appreciation to the Thinkpads forum, I really am doing my best to inform whoever wants to listen to my proselytizing that getting a Thinkpad is one of the best investments a person can make in his or her lifetime.

Thanks a lot!