T43 advice

[Marten]

Hello.
I've recently bought used Thinkpad X61s and I'am a bit dissappointed with it. I don't like its heat output (especially under right palm) and fan noise.
Also, 12" seems too small for me sometimes. And I don't understand why did they put 965 chipset (with more power consumption and heat output) without DVI port. Lenovo is sure to have spoiled ThinkPads...
I'm going to sell it and buy T43(14") or X60s. I incline toward T43 because of its titanium case (I like tough things) screen size and reputation
But I don't want to be disappointed again and would like to hear what knowledgeable people say.
I need a laptop for simple tasks such as reading, chatting and watching video with an external monitor. No hardcore gaming.
So, here are some questions and I would be very much obliged if someone helped me:
1)Is T43 noisy?
2)What is the heat output?
3)What are the key features I should pay attention to (common issues with some models)?
4)Other than T43 and X60s options?

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Harryc]

If fan noise is an issue, then a T43 is the wrong machine for you. Look at the T60 or T61's for not much more money these days ... They also have Titanium parts.

[krayzie]

Actually during the summer I bought a refurbished X60 and found similar issues (i.e. excess heat coming from the wireless card under the right side of the palmrest, 12" form factor a bit to small, etc) so I ended up selling it and got myself a refurbished T43. Yea it's a little bit slower (although it runs awesome under Windows 7) but no regrets especially for the 14" high res screen and full sized keyboard. I have taken both the Lenovo X-Series and IBM T-Series apart and the build quality on the older pre-Lenovo machines is just simply better.

But T43 do run hot at the bottom (maybe just mine), I need to use Notebook Hardware Controller program to undervolt the Pentium M and added the associated ACPI script posted here so there will not be a fan problem. Also if you put in a newer hard drive that is not on the BIOS authorized table it will give you a warning during boot, non-issue really since it will continue to boot on its own.

I have a Lenovo T61 14" widescreen from work and the screen and build quality (worse than Lenovo X-Series) bothers me a lot.

Anywayz I think a T43p is the way to go.

[sjthinkpader]

If quiet, cool, good display and reasonable performance are requirements; then T42/p 15 inch will be that machine. There are short comings such as expensive RAM. This post is typed on a T42p with 2GB RAM and a 160GB HDD. It is not set to run in passive cooling but fan noise is very acceptable.

I do have a T43p 15 inch too but it is not my primary machine.

[Marten]

Thanks a lot for your replies!

If fan noise is an issue, then a T43 is the wrong machine for you. Look at the T60 or T61's for not much more money these days ... They also have Titanium parts.

Is it really so noisy? What RPM is it running while performing simple tasks such as word processing? I'll think about T6x, but I don't like the design.

But T43 do run hot at the bottom (maybe just mine), I need to use Notebook Hardware Controller program to undervolt the Pentium M and added the associated ACPI script posted here so there will not be a fan problem. Also if you put in a newer hard drive that is not on the BIOS authorized table it will give you a warning during boot, non-issue really since it will continue to boot on its own.

I use RMClock to undervolt my X61s, it gives about 10C at maximum load (78C->68C), but It doesn't seem to help significantly. What is the fan problem you are referring to? And what about the BIOS authorized table, can it be updated?

If quiet, cool, good display and reasonable performance are requirements; then T42/p 15 inch will be that machine. There are short comings such as expensive RAM. This post is typed on a T42p with 2GB RAM and a 160GB HDD. It is not set to run in passive cooling but fan noise is very acceptable.

I do have a T43p 15 inch too but it is not my primary machine.

I looked through T42/p specs and I think it's also acceptable. What are the highs and lows of T42/p over T43/p? In Lenovo's Detailed specifications battery operation time is 5.5 hours on T42 vs 3.8 hours on T43 with 6-cell battery, that is really so? And what about T41/T40, are they worth mentioning?

[sjthinkpader]

I went with T42p just because they are the newest for the 266Mhz bus. T43/p are using 400Mhz bus and produces a lot of heat during extended bus access. 15 inch versions have UXGA IPS screens and one piece KB bezel so are generally more rugged than 14 inch version with split KB bezel. Also T43 WiFi card white list bypass is much more difficult and I have a non-IBM miniPCI 11n card in my T42p.

The main downside is still high cost of 2GB of PC2700 RAM. Also Windows 7 may not support ATI FireGL T2 directly. A Vista driver may have to be used.

I am using my T42p as a desktop replacement so it has a 30 minutes battery for now.

I truly cannot say I notice any significant performance difference between this T42p and my T60 for work.

[Marten]

sjthinkpader
Is UXGA IPS screen significantly greater? I'm sure it's a good thing, but notebook with 15" is bulky to carry, IMHO.
Did you try connecting your T42p to an external monitor through DVI (using dock)?
From Lenovo's specifications:

Support for a DVI monitor is through the ThinkPad Dock II option and is limited to a resolution of 1280 x 1024 at 60 Hz

But I've read somewhere that with new driver T42p supports larger resolution, can someone clarify this for me please?
And I wonder if it has enough performance to play HD video...

Looks like I piled you with questions
Thanks in advance.

[dr_st]

Is UXGA IPS screen significantly greater? I'm sure it's a good thing, but notebook with 15" is bulky to carry, IMHO.

Unfortunately, it's the eternal tradeoff with Thinkpads of the T4x/T60 series - better mobility with the 14" model or much better screen with the 15" ones. There is no clear solution to that.

But I've read somewhere that with new driver T42p supports larger resolution, can someone clarify this for me please?

It definitely does. Up to WUXGA (1920x1200) with no problems.

And I wonder if it has enough performance to play HD video...

720p will play just fine. Most 1080p would be too heavy though.

[Marten]

It definitely does. Up to WUXGA (1920x1200) with no problems.

Using DVI, right?

Most 1080p would be too heavy though.

I see.

What are the upgrade capabilities for T42p?

[mpcook]

I have 3 T43's XGA and a T43p 15" UXGA. I don't recommend the latter, it runs very hot and is not so portable. I have no heat problems with the T43 XGA and it is sturdy, does everything I need. Right now the CPU is running at 51 deg F.

Mike

[ajkula66]

For quiet and cool, T42 would be my choice, with a 1.7 or 1.8 CPU. T42p runs hotter than the standard units because of its high-end GPU. The closest thing to perfect solution is the proverbial "middle ground" covered by machines that sport a Radeon 9600 GPU which runs cooler than FireGL T2 used in T42p units, while offering very good graphics performance, as well as better support for Vista/Win 7 than the standard Radeon 7500 units...

If you choose to go this route, try locating a "late" model (stamp date April 2005 or later) since these are less prone to GPU failures due to inclusion of the same motherboard improvements introduced on then-new T43.

Having said that, the screen quality between 14" TN and 15" IPS screens is tremendous. I have three T42s in my house right now just sitting in suitcases, all 14" models. I don't think that any of these will get turned on until it's time for sale. If they were 15" IPS models, they would be on all the time in this household...

My personal choice, as can be seen in my signature, is a T43p that I'm typing this post on. But it's not silent by any stretch of imagination. To me, that's a non-issue. For someone wanting a dead-quiet unit, it most likely would be quite annoying...

My $0.02 only...

[Marten]

T42p runs hotter than the standard units because of its high-end GPU.

Are you sure about that? Mobility Radeon 9600 and Mobility FireGL T2 have similar chipsets and slight difference in performance http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Gra ... 844.0.html

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate your help!

[dr_st]

Are you sure about that? Mobility Radeon 9600 and Mobility FireGL T2 have similar chipsets and slight difference in performance

The T2 has double the RAM, which means more transistors and therefore heat.

[Marten]

I mean, is it significantly hotter?

[underclocker]

Yes, the FireGL T2 GPU found in the T41p/T42p runs very, very hot. Even the T40p FireGL GPU runs hot. You can certainly feel the difference on your lap (or elsewhere) under normal use. The fan runs often. The inclusion of "Fire" in the GPU name is appropriate. As mentioned the 9600 GPU is the best balance of heat and performance.

I'd say that the best advice given so far is a T60. The Intel GPU T60 are fast, solid machines and they run very cool and quiet. In the U.S., keen shoppers can find nice units starting around $300.

The X60s is nice, but it does run a little hot on the right side and the fan does come on occasionally.

Fans run on T43's more often than on similarly spec'd T42's. Fans are louder on T43's, too.

The most silent and cool running machine that I currently own (see my signature for my current machines) is an XGA T41 chassis with an Intel GPU R51 motherboard and an SSD. Other than the test spool up during a boot up, the fan sometimes doesn't come on for a week (and obviously, there is no disk noise at all, SSD's are silent). Build your own link here --> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65505

You'll need advice from others on HD output for all of the above models listed. I've watched videos externally, but not high definition.

[Harryc]

I'd say that the best advice given so far is a T60.

[Binh]

To Marten
I would like to repeat the recommendation of sjthinkpader. For your tasks, T42p with 15" UXGA Flexview (IPS) would be the best choices. It will be a dream if you can find one that was produced at the end of 2005 year, and have NMB keyboard & Panasonic battery.

For discussion about FireGL T2 is hotter than Radeon 9600, I think it is unsignificant. Additional 64MB does not produce much heat under light use, and you always can underclock GPU and memory by using NHC software.

My $0.02 only.

[krayzie]

I think the best solution would be a T60p 14.1" 4:3 machine - it runs relatively cool and you can get a dual core cpu with 3 gb of addressible ram and a sata hdd (easier to find than pata / ide).

Personally I'm very fond of the T4x form factor (slightly thinner than T6x with seemingly better materials) hence I went with the T43 (took a while to find a mint condition with 14.1" SXGA+ and fingerprint with bluetooth). I'm running Windows 7 on it now and it absolutely flies! (P-M @ 2.0Ghz, 2x 1GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 ram @ 3-4-4-10, WD Scorpio Blue 320GB hdd). I have replaced the stock fan with a new T41p unit and it's much more quieter, undervolting the cpu solved the heat issue I was having (usually hovers at around 50C). Now just waiting to replace the Chicony keyboard (it sticks a bit for all the keys so weird) with a NMB or Alps. Parts are not expensive on eBay for this machine at all so running cost is low.

I have played with the 15" T42 machines at work, I find them just too big to lug around. But T42 runs super cool (I've had three of these from work, 14.1" 2005 build) and I leave it on 24/7, fell off my table while running a few times and even held it by the corner (not a good idea due to motherboard flex) absolutely no problems, virtually indestructable!

[dr_st]

I think the best solution would be a T60p 14.1" 4:3 machine - it runs relatively cool and you can get a dual core cpu with 3 gb of addressible ram and a sata hdd (easier to find than pata / ide).

Eh, you must mean a T60 14.1" 14:3. Because a T60p 14.1" will run anything but cool.

[underclocker]

For discussion about FireGL T2 is hotter than Radeon 9600, I think it is unsignificant. Additional 64MB does not produce much heat under light use, and you always can underclock GPU and memory by using NHC software.

I don't want to split hairs or go back and forth on this point, but I've owned dozens of T4x machines and several were "p" models, it doesn't matter what any spec's say, the "p" GPU's run very hot, much hotter than any other T4x GPU. That I have observed first hand (or maybe first lap).

Regarding using software to tweak a machine, sure you can, but I'm not sure that most forum members or readers consider this an option (unless they mention that serous tweaking is an option). Even so, with similar tweaking the other T4x GPU's would run even cooler.

[ajkula66]

underclocker wrote:

I don't want to split hairs or go back and forth on this point, but I've owned dozens of T4x machines and several were "p" models, it doesn't matter what any spec's say, the "p" GPU's run very hot, much hotter than any other T4x GPU. That I have observed first hand (or maybe first lap).

+ 1

[Binh]

Here is the temperature in my T42p (see my sign) after 1 hour surfing internet:
- CPU: 46 deg. C (CPU is undervolted 0.796V@800Mhz, etc.)
- GPU: 50 deg. C (FireGL T2, PowerPlay is activated)
- HDD: 39 deg.
- Room temperature ~ 23 deg. C
The CPU has a good contact with the heatsink using AS-5, while the GPU has a relatively bad contact with the heatsink (I didn't care about GPU since I never do a GPU-intensive tasks).

The most annoying heats are produced from Atheros Wifi card (this one is very hot) and HDD since they are located under palmrest.

I would like to see the temperature on other T42 with Radeon 9600 for comparison

[ajkula66]

OK, since you've asked for it, I grabbed this one first...not undervolted, or restricted by TPFC...

T42 2373-M2U (14" SXGA+, Radeon 9600, 2GB RAM, 80/7200 Hitachi, XP SP2 very slimmed and trimmed) after 180 mins on the web, including some youtube...now idling with no pages open:

HDD: 34 C

CPU: 38 C

GPU: 41 C


BTW, my T43p which theoretically should run significantly hotter than your T42p and is NOT undervolted runs at about the same temps as your machine...with HDD actually being slightly cooler than what you've posted...

[underclocker]

Also, there is a difference between 14" and 15" units, 14" units run hotter - less air circulation inside. (Maybe the 15" base has more insulation on the bottom or is thicker to minimize leg burn - I don't normally use 15" models on my lap?)

Judging by the numbers above, I'd say the fan is running most of the time on the T42p and is not generally running on with the T42.

T42p's are great performers, they're just not cool/quiet.

[Binh]

OK, since you've asked for it, I grabbed this one first...not undervolted, or restricted by TPFC...

T42 2373-M2U (14" SXGA+, Radeon 9600, 2GB RAM, 80/7200 Hitachi, XP SP2 very slimmed and trimmed) after 180 mins on the web, including some youtube...now idling with no pages open:

HDD: 34 C

CPU: 38 C

GPU: 41 C

George, what is the temperature in your room ? and what is the model of your HDD ? I ask since I have Samsung M80 ATA, what is very energy-efficient one, but my HDD temperature is much higher than yours.

Yes, I recognize that the FireGL is hotter than regular ones, but IMHO, it isn't a major factor if you do not use GPU-intensive software.

P.S. My CPU is undervolted but overclocked to 2.13Ghz.
P.S.S. My fan is almost idle since I set the threshold temperature in NHC at 51 deg. (using only CPU temperature).

[ajkula66]

The disk is really not a cool one, being a Hitachi 80GB/7200rpm, model (if I remember correctly) HTE721080GAT100. Temperature in the room is somewhere in the 20-21C ballpark. I've had excellent results (temperature-wise) with Samsung 160GB drives.

Funny thing is that this particular drive (which is non-IBM Hitachi) runs cooler than its IBM-issued sibling in my T43p...by like 10-12%...

In my experience, FireGL T2, as well as V3200, run hotter than Radeon 9600/X300 even when idling.

[Binh]

The disk is really not a cool one, being a Hitachi 80GB/7200rpm, model (if I remember correctly) HTE721080GAT100. Temperature in the room is somewhere in the 20-21C ballpark. I've had excellent results (temperature-wise) with Samsung 160GB drives.

Thank for the information. I think the different temperature in my and your HDD is due:
- Different ambient temperature (mine is 4 deg higher than yours, at the moment I wrote the previous posts, the T in my room was exactly 25-26 deg., but not 23 deg.)
- Different temperature sensors in HDD.
- Different use pattern
So, there still is a chance that my Samsung 5400rpm HDD is cooler than your Hitachi 7200 rpm

[Marten]

To Binh and ajkula66
And what about fan? Was it on/off?

[Binh]

To Binh and ajkula66
And what about fan? Was it on/off?

If the ambient temperature 20-25C then the fan turns on only periodically at the lowest speed. It's work pattern is about 30% on / 70% off when surfing internet. The noise of the fan at lowest speed is un-noticeable.
The fan work pattern is observed in my T42p and T41 (1.6Ghz Banias CPU and Radeon 9000 GPU) without significant differences between the two (T41 is cooler, but marginally). The fan in T41 is a bit louder than that in T42p.

[ajkula66]

Off with reported temperatures.

Get online, click on a nice youtube video, and here comes the fan, although it's not that loud or fast...

T43 M24 long fan is generally louder than T42/p M10 long fan in my experience.